brutally honest critique this:
Old 02-27-2015   #1
Pherdinand
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brutally honest critique this:

what you guys (and estimated ladies) think of this?
Short comments also welcome. Don't need to force yourself to motivate a "boring" feeling. I do have a thick skin.
Just don't tell me it works better in BW
just kiddin'. You can tell me even that. Anything appropriate or inappropriate.

Also feel free to add your images if it's relevant. Or if it isn't.

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Old 02-27-2015   #2
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My eye goes straight to the silhouette at the lower right of the frame, but it's not interesting enough to sustain attention. It needs some sort of profile/characteristic to distinguish it further ie positioned sideways, leaning head turned/side profile.

I find the rest of the frame distracting. The cross would have been a good anchor, but i feel it gets lost in the balcony's shadow - if you positioned in a way to give some space between the cross edge & the balcony, this anchor would stand out better.

Overall however, it's a messy image with elements that distract and don't really tie in together imo. ie: stairs.
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Old 02-27-2015   #3
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The tilt bugs me a little... ok a lot. None of the background horizontals are horizontal.

As to the composition - this is a very, very busy scene and I do appreciate how you're trying to make it work for you. Whatever the object is in the foreground that is partly obscuring the doorway and the figure in it, isn't doing you any favours. It looks like the top of a trash can but I'm guessing not? Anyway if it's mobile I would move it out of there so that the full door frame is visible and it doesn't distract from the figure.

Speaking of which... my eye is drawn there (appropriately I think) but there is a lot of other stuff drawing me way from it - the textures of the wall, the banner, the ceiling detail, that ladder... none of which you can change (or maybe want to). So perhaps losing a little of the out-of-focus foreground element (top of an altar or something?) and maybe both sides of the frame a bit would help. I might bring the left side in so that the window and all of the door are gone. Yes, you'd lose part of the cross but you don't need all of it to show what it is (and imply what it tells us about location and mood). Maybe a bit on the right side too, although after losing the left side it might look clean enough.

There's a distracting little coloured highlight on the right side of the bottom of the vertical of the cross that I'd probably burn down... and the highlights in the doorway and window are completely blown. I get that you don't want distracting scenery showing through but they seem too blown out to me, to the point the the silhouetted figure is a bit flared.

There, that's my $0.02 worth, provided to you absolutely free of charge.

As always, YMMV, E&OE, batteries not included, etc.

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Last edited by rwintle : 02-27-2015 at 05:07. Reason: Just one teeny tiny typo.
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Old 02-27-2015   #4
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I'd set the building straight up and the cross slumped, not the other way round. Although that might be a conscious decision?

Now it says: the world can tumble down, but religion stands tall, while otherwise it would say The world stands tall, but religion tumbles down.

Which did you mean it to say?

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Old 02-27-2015   #5
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"Also feel free to add your images" -- now, that was a mistake.
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Old 02-27-2015   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MIkhail View Post
"Also feel free to add your images" -- now, that was a mistake.
why? people will do it anyway
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Old 02-27-2015   #7
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Where is the theme? Too much details from interesting place, so I see chaos and I don't know why do you took this frame.
But colors and mood - I feel it, I feel this place.
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Old 02-27-2015   #8
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why? people will do it anyway
True....
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Old 02-27-2015   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johannielscom View Post
I'd set the building straight up and the cross slumped, not the other way round. Although that might be a conscious decision?

Now it says: the world can tumble down, but religion stands tall, while otherwise it would say The world stands tall, but religion tumbles down.

Which did you mean it to say?

hey Johan,
thanks for the words
The cross is standing straight on purpose. The church is falling apart on purpose (well, ehm, you get what i mean ). The church is in a disastrous state as you see on the walls and woodwork, and there was a choice what to keep straight so it was obvious (that time & to me). The tilt supports the idea i thought.
So not the whole world, that's a bit too big of a message- only the church.
It's not even a message, it's just a record of the fact.

I composed it, i was tilting the rolleiflex left and right, when the guy walked into the doorframe so i clicked it. I thought it turned out right with the super bright outside and flared figure. I understand technically it is flawed/flared but a silhouette is sufficient.
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Old 02-27-2015   #10
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I'm so naive and unaware about composition and other cliches...

I don't think I do any good for OP, but I'm finding this picture interesting and filled with multilayers.

To me the main "thing" is strait in terms of alignment and the rest is secondary to it with swirl to support this statement of the main.

This picture is one of the best "inside of the church" pictures I have seen for long time.
It gives if not the story, but very strong feel about it.
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Old 02-27-2015   #11
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jky, rwintle - thanks you guys - both of you say it is too busy.
I agree. It also bothers me. That time i thought it would fit nicely all together, but it's too scattered with stuff.
The "object in foreground" is not a trash can indeed it is the old bowl with the holy water, that had some sort of capping on it. It's a mistake. I had a tabletop tripod with me only, didn't help much.
I don't think cropping it left-right-bottom-such will help it, it's just all there in one damn shot
I like the stairs-window above door-silhouette, though.

thanks!
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Old 02-27-2015   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isorgb View Post
Where is the theme? Too much details from interesting place, so I see chaos and I don't know why do you took this frame.
But colors and mood - I feel it, I feel this place.
yeah i agree, messy - chaotic too much - theme is there but it's too scattered.
thanks!
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Old 02-27-2015   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ko.Fe. View Post
(...)
This picture is one of the best "inside of the church" pictures I have seen for long time.
It gives if not the story, but very strong feel about it.
whoa, that's brutally positive for such a shot- thanks KoFe-
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Old 02-27-2015   #14
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Now after getting some replies, here's it from another angle.
This is a much "cleaner" image but i miss from it the... no i wont tell you yet to bias you, lets see what you guys think it's missing

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Old 02-27-2015   #15
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em, ... anybody know anything about using repeating elements as a compositional technique? ... no, thought not, ... cos there are a lot of crosses and arches kicking about that first one
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Old 02-27-2015   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by photomoof View Post
what you guys (and estimated ladies) think of this? Now I know it is a typo, but that is funny.

Nice photo by the way!
)))
esteemed it should've been, indeed.
thx
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Old 02-27-2015   #17
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First picture is excellent. There are a LOT of pictures here without much of a real subject. This has a very powerful, dramatic subject and it's a beautiful picture. The composition between the negative space of the cross and the figure form a nice triangle and the rest of the detail only supports. I don't think its cluttered at all. The comments about horizon tilt etc are superfluous and you can take or leave. The second image is good as a companion to the first, but it wouldn't be very interesting on its own. It's very good technically, and it has soul, but it's not in the same league of interest , UNLESS you pair them. Then it works well.
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Old 02-27-2015   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rinzlerb View Post
First picture is excellent. There are a LOT of pictures here without much of a real subject. This has a very powerful, dramatic subject and it's a beautiful picture. The composition between the negative space of the cross and the figure form a nice triangle and the rest of the detail only supports. I don't think its cluttered at all. The comments about horizon tilt etc are superfluous and you can take or leave. The second image is good as a companion to the first, but it wouldn't be very interesting on its own. It's very good technically, and it has soul, but it's not in the same league of interest , UNLESS you pair them. Then it works well.
... I come back to the door at the bottom-left oddly .. that highlighted curve on the LH third just drags my eye down to it
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Old 02-27-2015   #19
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First one is way too busy. As for the second, the bright out of focus area is what draws the attention, not the foreground subject (which is too dark, and it's not clear what it is anyway).
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cropping
Old 02-27-2015   #20
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cropping

THanks for sharing this image. The busy aspect for me is distracting too. It is compelling at the same time; one of those images, where the subject is strong and you just know there is a picture there, but maybe conditions just aren't quite right.

I can't help but think that a re-thinking of making the exposure about the whole frame rather than cropping wouldn't make for a stronger image. Of course it would also likely involve adjusting the angle of view slightly.

I am also thinking that I would be tempted to let the cross lose axis for the sake of the overall shot......another statement about religion as for the good of human condition or religion manipulated by human perception

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Old 02-27-2015   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pherdinand View Post
Now after getting some replies, here's it from another angle.
This is a much "cleaner" image but i miss from it the... no i wont tell you yet to bias you, lets see what you guys think it's missing

Nothing could be missed if here is nothing already, but even good portion of nothing like this could find good use.
This one is perfect for "ZYZ lens" thread where you could show the bokeh from specific lens and how sharp it is wide open and such.
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Old 02-27-2015   #22
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I like the movie-like feeling of the first shot but the tilted ceiling and the dark object on the left draw the attention away from where it should be.

The second one has a more peaceful composition but unfortunately lacks a solid point of interest. Darkening the lower part with light casting on it from behind the camera might help here (did not try it out though).
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Old 02-28-2015   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KoNickon View Post
First one is way too busy. As for the second, the bright out of focus area is what draws the attention, not the foreground subject (which is too dark, and it's not clear what it is anyway).
It's an open book. Or, what's left of it. Wasn't touched for a decade or two.

On a larger image you can read into it a bit.

Thanx.
Thanx rinzlerb too, and the further commenters.
What i myself am missing from the 2nd one is the human presence. So indeed only together with the first one it is working (-ish).
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Old 02-28-2015   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DwF View Post
THanks for sharing this image. The busy aspect for me is distracting too. It is compelling at the same time; one of those images, where the subject is strong and you just know there is a picture there, but maybe conditions just aren't quite right.

I can't help but think that a re-thinking of making the exposure about the whole frame rather than cropping wouldn't make for a stronger image. Of course it would also likely involve adjusting the angle of view slightly.

I am also thinking that I would be tempted to let the cross lose axis for the sake of the overall shot......another statement about religion as for the good of human condition or religion manipulated by human perception

David
Hehe, i like that at the end
The cross is a tool in his case. Replaceable.
The people left, and they left the cross behind. Was too big and cumbersome.
And the book.
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Old 02-28-2015   #25
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Final image:
The "door on the left" is not even a door
and you can see the "holy water bowl" whatever it's called in English.

Walls are straight here

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Old 02-28-2015   #26
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Well, as one of the ladies - estimated or no - esteemed or not - I think this is not so much cluttered, as two pictures. The cross would be a good central theme on its own, but adds nothing to this photo. With that removed and any necessary cropping on the west done the rest of the picture - once straightened - has lovely color and lovely light, and a rather pleasing composition.

The second picture I find quite pleasing and see the book as an interesting focal point. The bokeh lends it mood and a spiritual quality. I think it is quite a piece of art and I would be happy to hang it.

I like the third picture a good bit also. With the first altered they make a nice trio.

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Old 02-28-2015   #27
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The first image is excellent. I wouldn't change anything. Even the slightly tilt and blurry cross is pure language.
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Old 02-28-2015   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirley Creazzo View Post
Well, as one of the ladies - estimated or no - esteemed or not - I think this is not so much cluttered, as two pictures. The cross would be a good central theme on its own, but adds nothing to this photo. With that removed and any necessary cropping on the west done the rest of the picture - once straightened - has lovely color and lovely light, and a rather pleasing composition.

The second picture I find quite pleasing and see the book as an interesting focal point. The bokeh lends it mood and a spiritual quality. I think it is quite a piece of art and I would be happy to hang it.

I like the third picture a good bit also. With the first altered they make a nice trio.
yes YOU are Esteemd as a Rff woman Shirley...Yay !
add that feminine mystique with that Critique
it certainly is needed and appreciated here on RFF

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Old 02-28-2015   #29
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Helen, I thank you for that. I am much happier with my femaleness than with my ph0tography as it happens. But better that than the reverse I would think. Guess it is essentially whatever gets you through your allotted days.

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Old 02-28-2015   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pherdinand View Post

The image has an exotic, mysterious, somewhat unnerving look and feel, and I like it a lot.
Have to say however ... whatever that is in the middle ground partially blocking the view of the doorway is really bothersome. Really. (You have probably addressed this before, but I have not read through the thread yet.)
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Old 02-28-2015   #31
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Thank you Shirley, bushwick and Dave.
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Old 02-28-2015   #32
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I like the first picture for its movie still quality. It evokes a mysterious, slightly unsettling, feeling. Like something out of "Damian", or similar fare. The tilted frame and the blurred figure all add to that. It's the strongest of the pictures presented and definitely engages the viewer.
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Old 03-01-2015   #33
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thanks for that, Dirk.

Here's another one, in different style.
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Old 03-01-2015   #34
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I did not like the photo at first glance, it seemed too busy and lacking a clear subject. But the more that I look at it, the more that I like it, it creates an interesting essay in my mind about the strength of religion and the impermanance of the works of man. I think that if the cross were tilted and the building straight, this essay would be equally interesting but might write to an opposite conclusion.
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