Q: any way to put digital images back to negative ?
Old 06-25-2015   #1
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Q: any way to put digital images back to negative ?

Print into transparency and use a large 8x10 enlarger to print or copy stand to copy into a negative ?

How does Sebastiao Salgado do it ?

seriously curious,

raytoei
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Old 06-25-2015   #2
Calzone
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Print into transparency and use a large 8x10 enlarger to print or copy stand to copy into a negative ?

How does Sebastiao Salgado do it ?

seriously curious,

raytoei
Ray,

Piezography has a system where I can print a digital negative onto overhead transparency film and contact print onto an Ilford silver paper to make a wet print. This is for only B&W. This seems very well suited for use with my MM9. Currently I am printing using Piezography for ink jet prints, and I only have to change out two inks to be able to print digital negatives.

Salgado created a digital 4x5 negative using either a Pentax 645 (film) or a Canon DSLR for image capture for Genesis. The 4x5 digital negatives were then wet printed using an enlarger. Salgado had this very high end lab in Paris make the digital negatives and print for him.

What is so remarkable is how seamless the film verses digital Salgado achieved where it kinda is very hard to distinguish the digital from the analog image capture in the final often huge wet. Really took a trained eye to distinguish any differance (digital had slightly more shadow detail/film had smoother highlights). Almost undistinguishable. Amplify this IQ to really huge enlargements like 4x5 feet.

Cal
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Old 06-25-2015   #3
sevo
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The current DIY way about it employs 8x10" or bigger inkjet transparency prints, as large format enlargers have depreciated far more than Hollywood grade film recorders.

There was a brief period when there also were photographic (rather than cinematographic) film recorders, but with slide disappearing as a commercial presentation medium, these are already extinct again. A high quality (8K) one currently is on ebay, at a still considerable price (but a mere fraction of the original): http://www.ebay.com/itm/CCG-PCR-8-Fi...-/221793334717
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Old 06-25-2015   #4
jloden
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Wow, cool! I am so glad the OP asked this question... I've wondered for a long time if there was any way to make "negatives" from a digital file, but couldn't find anything online about it. Now I know!

That is really interesting about Salgado's process using digital to create 4x5 negatives for wet printing. Would be great to see some of those prints in person for myself! Unfortunately it looks like I've missed the Genesis exhibition in NYC by several months
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Old 06-25-2015   #5
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Wow, cool! I am so glad the OP asked this question... I've wondered for a long time if there was any way to make "negatives" from a digital file, but couldn't find anything online about it. Now I know!

That is really interesting about Salgado's process using digital to create 4x5 negatives for wet printing. Would be great to see some of those prints in person for myself! Unfortunately it looks like I've missed the Genesis exhibition in NYC by several months
Check out Piezography.com. Jon Cone did a lot of heavy lifting for us. I can see needing a 24 inch printer to fully exploit my MM9. One kinda is printing like in large format via contact printing, and this requires a rather large and heavy vacuum frame to get the IQ and resolution.

I had the opportunity to see the Genesis show at ICP. I went through the show to view it three different ways: first I took in the whole show which was 200 images; next I selected the images that I found to be "iconic" meaning ones that would persist in my memory long after the show, and then I analized why I liked them; and lastly I tried to identify the suble differences between the analog and digital capture.

At a gallery in Chelsea I happen to see some of the same images (large) from the Genesis show that were displayed in frames without glass. The IQ was mind boggling...

The last show that had as great an impact on me was the Richard Avedon show at MOMA in the seventies. This show was comprised of portraits printed big using an 8x10 view camera.

Cal
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Old 06-25-2015   #6
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I have been thinking about this question for a number of years. What I thought was that if a manufacturer could make a small projection system that has a camera mount such that it can be attached to a film SLR camera just like a lens, then digital images can be projected onto film just like taking an analog photo. Of course, the shutter of the camera would have to be set to "B" or "T", and all exposure controls would be done on the computer that this little projector attaches to via a cable with an USB terminal.

Regardless of the economics of it, would this work technically?

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Old 06-25-2015   #7
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I have been thinking about this question for a number of years. What I thought was that if a manufacturer could make a small projection system that has a camera mount such that it can be attached to a film SLR camera just like a lens, then digital images can be projected onto film just like taking an analog photo. Of course, the shutter of the camera would have to be set to "B" or "T", and all exposure controls would be done on the computer that this little projector attaches to via a cable with an USB terminal.

Regardless of the economics of it, would this work technically?

Tin
Tin,

I have some large prints made by Digital Silver Imaging using my MM9 for image capture. I send them my digital file that I post processed. ( I also have a special arrangement with them because I also send them one of my Piezography prints for them as a reference.) Basically they have a machine that projects to make a conventional fiber silver wet print.

Some of my MM9 prints are 24x36 (image size) printed on 30x40 (for borders).

I'm shortly going to send a MM9 file to be printed 36x54 (image size) on 40x60.

Not inexpensive...

BTW they can print up to 12 foot long on silver fiber. RC papers are available at a lower cost.

DigitalSilverImaging.com

Cal
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Old 06-25-2015   #8
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Thanks Cal.

But my thinking was not so much along the line of making exhibition sized prints, but for using film as the archival medium.

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Old 06-25-2015   #9
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Thanks Cal.

But my thinking was not so much along the line of making exhibition sized prints, but for using film as the archival medium.

Tin
Tin,

Your thought is an interesting spin. For me the prints are the archival medium from digital capture whether inkjet or a fiber silver wet print.

BTW I still shoot film as an achival medium, but I forestalled printing knowing that I have mucho time because of the archival nature of having film negatives.

Cal
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Old 06-25-2015   #10
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I think the Duggal lab (NYC) was doing this, with a 4x5 LVT. I don't see the service listed on their new site, but you could contact them to ask.


EDIT: Derp. I should have used the Search function on their site. The LVT is here:

http://www.duggal.com/solutions/reto...l-film-output/

I think they output to TMax and Portra(?). I was interested in this process a few years ago but never pulled the trigger because i don't like TMax....
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Old 06-25-2015   #11
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I researched about this very question recently, and this is one service that seems to be reasonably-priced (my personal opinion, nothing else) for converting digital files into 4x5 or 8x10 negatives.

http://www.coxblackandwhitelab.com/?page_id=211
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Old 06-25-2015   #12
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thanks much for the replies. something to bookmark and slowly do my research.
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Old 06-27-2015   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calzone View Post
[...]

I had the opportunity to see the Genesis show at ICP.

[...]

The last show that had as great an impact on me was the Richard Avedon show at MOMA in the seventies. This show was comprised of portraits printed big using an 8x10 view camera.
You're not making me feel any better about missing that exhibit when it was still at ICP!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tin View Post
But my thinking was not so much along the line of making exhibition sized prints, but for using film as the archival medium.
Tin, that's exactly what made me think of it several months back as well. Negatives and prints have a proven long term storage outcome under appropriate conditions. Conversely, storing digital files for the long term is a continuously evolving challenge.

Even in just the time I've been involved in computing I've seen at least half a dozen major storage formats appear and disappear. All you can do is transfer mediums regularly pretty much. Even then you have data decay to worry about, to say nothing of proprietary file formats etc.

That's part of what drew me back to a mixed film & digital approach (and printing!) especially for our family memories. I have multiple backups including off-site ones for my digital files, but I also like having some analog negatives, albums, and prints around as well.
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Old 06-27-2015   #14
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Dna Burkholder's "Injet Negative Companion" system is what I have been using to create 8x10 negatives for both silver and platinum contact prints. It is easy to follow and works perfectly. His link is at: http://www.danburkholder.com/Pages/m...Negatives.html
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Old 06-28-2015   #15
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Vytasn, the link looks interesting...you'd need an image, some sw, a epson printer and "high quality transparency" film.

more from amazon:
"This step-by-step guide includes everything you need to make tonally lush digital negatives for alternative contact printing processes including platinum/palladium, silver gelatin, cyanotype, etc. With a minimum amount of testing and no nerdy geek-speak, this richly illustrated guide will launch you on your way to making classic, photographic prints you'll be proud to display and share. The included Photoshop® template and simple, drag-and-drop methods require no more than a basic understanding of Photoshop CS4 or later. Even the technically challenged will find the New Inkjet Negative Companion easy to follow and use. Three accompanying video tutorials cover Using Dan's Inkjet Negative Template, Printer Settings and Adjusting Inkjet Negative Curves. These videos are especially helpful to those who prefer to learn by watching rather than reading. The New Inkjet Negative Companion is rebuilt from the ground up to cover new printers, new versions of Photoshop and new color management methods."

vytasn: any comments on this method ?
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