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Old 08-10-2015   #41
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Old 08-10-2015   #42
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Odd thread!

Is there fear among Leica aficionados, that they will think they are buying one camera, and get home, only to find it is the wrong one?

Do a little research, look at the end of the box, and check your receipt when leaving the store.
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Old 08-10-2015   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kshapero View Post
What!!! Nikon's naming scheme is very logical. Now quick: Difference between an MP and a M-P. Quick....see wacko!!
MP : 1950s limited edition film model or current high end film model with meter.
M-P : current top of the line digital model of the typ 240 family.

And your point was... You can't remember?

G
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Old 08-10-2015   #44
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Let see, Fairlaine, Galaxie, Falcon, Fusion, Focus, Impala, Bel Air, Chevelle, Chevette, Corvette, On and On and On..... It's the way of marketing. We're supposed to want the newest, longest, lowest, most Chrome, bigger and better than our neighbor. The terrible thing is that it works.
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Old 08-10-2015   #45
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Originally Posted by V-12 View Post
...How different to the amorphous Leica derived names, I mean what does 'X' mean, what does it tell you? What does Typ 246 tell you?
X says it's an APS-C fixed lens model.
Typ 246 says it's an M with the latest body features and monochrom sensor.

Why is this so difficult?

G
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Old 08-10-2015   #46
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In my opinion anyone buying Leica is probably going to know the difference. Usually Leica is not an impulse buy to most but a thought out, researched decision. The price point would make that so for most.
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Old 08-10-2015   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
Why is this so difficult?
to me "Typ" plus some serial number is so difficult. Leica had perfectly working naming convention for their M cameras. until someone came up with idea to copy Mercedes and BMW and change everything after 50+ years of tradition.
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Old 08-10-2015   #48
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In my opinion anyone buying Leica is probably going to know the difference. Usually Leica is not an impulse buy to most but a thought out, researched decision. The price point would make that so for most.
+1

There are far more important issues to be concerned about in 2015 than name convention of a camera 😉
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Old 08-10-2015   #49
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I can manage the names just fine, but I do wish it was M8, M9, M10, M11, M12,... If nothing else, its quicker off the tongue.

I also don't mind the variant of the above: M8u, M8.2, ... That seemed a nice way to indicate small differences from the base model. Sure, Typ 267 or some such nomenclature can do that as well, but it takes longer for me to say, and some day there will be an awful lot of Typ's (assuming Leica stays with us for a long time, as I hope).

In the meantime, as long as my Leica works as intended/expected and I can keep makin pictures....
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Old 08-10-2015   #50
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Originally Posted by airfrogusmc View Post
In my opinion anyone buying Leica is probably going to know the difference. Usually Leica is not an impulse buy to most but a thought out, researched decision. The price point would make that so for most.
+2

... There are more important things to discuss.

G
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Old 08-10-2015   #51
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'The 6 degrees of Lenny K' is the key that unlocks all this mess...probably.
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Old 08-10-2015   #52
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lol a company whose entire zeitgeist is about simplicity and intuitivity suddenly coming up with a nomenclature people actually have to think for more than a nanosecond about. M10, M11, M743... those would all have been great. seriously, just stop adding value.
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Old 08-10-2015   #53
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The Leica nerd will always be on top of each model... and its specs. However, I can see how this would be tricky if you only researched which camera to buy every 5 years or so when you need a new camera. That said, it is no different than buying a computer in that respect.
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Old 08-10-2015   #54
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I think it is now much clearer then when you had a UXOOR, a UZEOM and a UOOYW, just to stay in Visoflex nomenclature...

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Old 08-10-2015   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
X says it's an APS-C fixed lens model.
Typ 246 says it's an M with the latest body features and monochrom sensor.

Why is this so difficult?

G
It isn't difficult for me, but your lack of empathy surely suggests you have no idea how to sell a camera on a broader scale other than knowing the specifications of it already.

I've been using Leica's for 40 years, I know the progression of each model even if I'm not interested in each model. But explaining where each of the new models comes in the hierarchy becomes a fruitless cause because there is no hook to hang the information off, 'did he say I need and X, or was it a T?'

I want Leica to succeed, so I'm not happy that friends without any help from myself can't simply work out what they want in the range without nomenclature overload. It's time to forget what you know about cameras and put yourself in a new customers shoes.

V
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Old 08-10-2015   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
+2

... There are more important things to discuss.

G
Yes, you want to talk about what you know rather than what potential customers don't understand.

V
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Old 08-10-2015   #57
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Originally Posted by V-12 View Post
It isn't difficult for me, but your lack of empathy surely suggests you have no idea how to sell a camera on a broader scale other than knowing the specifications of it already. ...
I'm not interested in selling cameras: I'm not a camera salesperson. I leave selling cameras to camera sales personnel. I also leave managing the information about a manufacturers' products to the manufacturer. I don't care what their potential customers don't understand.

I'm a writer and a photographer, as I said somewhere earlier this thread.

G
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Old 08-10-2015   #58
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I'm waiting for the Leica Type 666, it's coming.
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Old 08-10-2015   #59
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It is obvious that some of the posters in this thread will use any opertunity to bash Leica for whatever reason, not a problem for me but considering how few M models they have introduced since 1954 it is not that complicated.

A new camera owner could care less about the first 7 or so models, they are no longer made so there's not that many really to consider.

Try to find some kind of logic in the Nikon line of models, that is some work and that was said by someone using Nikon cameras for more than 40 years.
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Old 08-10-2015   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan Pedersen View Post
It is obvious that some of the posters in this thread will use any opertunity to bash Leica for whatever reason.
That is not my motivation at all.

As a long time Leica owner and enthusiast, I expect, want, and demand the best from Leica in all things Leica.

The problem for me is Leica's current practice of intentional branding by confusion while at the same time abandoning Leica's traditional naming procedures does not live up to Leica's best standards - or anywhere near it in my opinion.
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Old 08-10-2015   #61
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What? Me Worry?

Heck, Leica is easy. Pentax has really screwed the pooch with their camera names over the years. Starting with the bayonet mount we have the K Series, the M Series, the P series, back to the M series, then the *ist Series (?), back to the K Series, which is where we are now. Somewhere in the middle of all this is an LX all on its' own. Try doing a google search on all this.
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Old 08-10-2015   #62
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Leica could certainly have continued the succession of numbers after 9 no question but would have needed to come up with some kind of differentiation for the monochrome models.
Something like M9M and M10M comes to mind but is it such a big issue? Are Leica loosing any sales because of the change, i don't think so.

Maybe this one would be a good one for Raid to take to the CEO next time they have a conversation?
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Old 08-10-2015   #63
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Future complaint on RFF:

"I bought an MP on eBay for $3k but the scamming seller sent me an M-P with a cracked sensor! How should I handle it??"
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Old 08-10-2015   #64
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M-P = Mii?

Or, why not the "N"?
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Old 08-10-2015   #65
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This is all so funny. Four pages of discussion about whether people like the name of a camera.

Meanwhile, my Leica M-P typ 240 only says "Leica" on the top plate, and my soon-to-be Leica M Monochrom typ 246 doesn't even say that. I'll just refer to them both as "the M."

Time to go take some pictures.

G
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Old 08-10-2015   #66
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Yes and no matter what the name is, they can take good pictures ��
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Old 08-10-2015   #67
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Old 08-10-2015   #68
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Funny how some folks see this thread as a playful hrumph and others get all hot and bothered. Humans are a funny lot.
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Old 08-10-2015   #69
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And yet no one has mentioned the M3 was released in 1954, the M2 in 1958, and the crazy M1 from 1959, where is the M zero in all this logic?
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Old 08-10-2015   #70
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I do not look up many camera models if I am not going to buy any. I read up on the M8 and the M9. There is no confusion.
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Old 08-10-2015   #71
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Originally Posted by kshapero View Post
Funny how some folks see this thread as a playful hrumph and others get all hot and bothered. Humans are a funny lot.
I have to agree... reading some of the comments here reminded me why I avoided any discussions about digital leica m.
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Old 08-10-2015   #72
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And yet no one has mentioned the M3 was released in 1954, the M2 in 1958, and the crazy M1 from 1959, where is the M zero in all this logic?
They were following the same logic they had deployed in the screw mount era, which was about as confusing as the current scheme.
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Old 08-11-2015   #73
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The name could have been a little simple with a numeric progression after the M9, M10, M10 mono, M11....

But it seems me not so important specially as a selling point. In the Leica web site under "Photography" the families S, M, X, T ....are well defined.

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Old 08-11-2015   #74
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Funny how some folks see this thread as a playful hrumph and others get all hot and bothered. Humans are a funny lot.
It is funny how many actually get hot and bothered by ANY thread at all. For what I know I could be the only human posting here and all comments could come from a funny programme.

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Old 08-11-2015   #75
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A real human person? With that Forum name? Come on...

Quote:
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It is funny how many actually get hot and bothered by ANY thread at all. For what I know I could be the only human posting here and all comments could come from a funny programme.

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Old 08-11-2015   #76
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It may also be:
A million monkeys banging at typewriters
Encoded ISIS communications
Corrupted data
Leica employees blowing of steam
Aliens
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Old 08-11-2015   #77
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Quote:
It may also be:
A million monkeys banging at typewriters
Encoded ISIS communications
Corrupted data
Leica employees blowing of steam
Aliens
Leica employees for certain! They hate the new naming systems, and who wouldn't?

Aliens wouldn't even try to understand the Leica naming system. They tend to focus on planetary names anyway, so they won't get lost.

From what I've heard, ISIS doesn't believe in creativity, so they either don't care about the new naming system....or they strongly support it. (I fear its the latter)

Monkeys are great. Given the chance, they might come up with a better naming scheme.....let's give them a chance. Did I mention monkeys are great?
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Old 08-12-2015   #78
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Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
.

I'm a writer and a photographer, as I said somewhere earlier this thread.

G
Ah, so you have no opinion, so why do we hear so much of it?

If you want to remain neutral well that's fine, but some people are concerned about Leica sales and all the dead end cul-de-sacs they are going up. Before long they will have run out of letters in the alphabet to designate failed attempts at gaining even semi-popular cameras within the Leica community let alone wider popular sales. Let's look at the exciting lens roadmap for the T for instance, or was that it? Hardly an encouragement to buy a new Leica 'wonder camera' when the wonder fades within a few weeks or months. But you are above that, so you need not reply, a journalist is devoid of opinion, a photographer simply observes, and all that pretentious bollocks.

V
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Old 08-12-2015   #79
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For what I know I could be the only human posting here and all comments could come from a funny programme.

GLF
If you want to stick your nose in the air as an act of superiority be careful who is sitting just above you. It may be worth considering if you have anything at all that means anything to you, and then work out if you might be called 'funny' by anybody else if you advocate it?

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Old 08-12-2015   #80
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Ah, so you have no opinion, so why do we hear so much of it?

If you want to remain neutral well that's fine, but some people are concerned about Leica sales and all the dead end cul-de-sacs they are going up. Before long they will have run out of letters in the alphabet to designate failed attempts at gaining even semi-popular cameras within the Leica community let alone wider popular sales. Let's look at the exciting lens roadmap for the T for instance, or was that it? Hardly an encouragement to buy a new Leica 'wonder camera' when the wonder fades within a few weeks or months. But you are above that, so you need not reply, a journalist is devoid of opinion, a photographer simply observes, and all that pretentious bollocks.

V
You've been escalated to my ignore list: you seem unable to manage a conversation without making ad hominem remarks whenever someone disagrees with your point of view.

G
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