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trading my m6 for cle and m-rokkor
Old 08-10-2015   #1
john_pears
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trading my m6 for cle and m-rokkor

Am I crazy just bought a cle with m-rokkor. I will have to let go of my m6 to fund it. I decided I really wanted a camera with ae for my main camera and that if i have to meter id rather do it all mannually. I would have really liked a zeiss ikon but this way I get to keep my m2 as well for back up and shooting on days I want to pretend I can use sunny 16.
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Old 08-10-2015   #2
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I'd say you're certifiable. A CLE in addition but not instead. I'm not sure the CLE can be repaired if certain things fail. I might be wrong but that's my understanding.
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Old 08-10-2015   #3
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if you want an AE RF but don't want to spend on a ZI or M7 then about the Voigtlander R2A or Hexar RF?
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Old 08-10-2015   #4
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Why!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 08-10-2015   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by x-ray View Post
I'd say you're certifiable. A CLE in addition but not instead. I'm not sure the CLE can be repaired if certain things fail. I might be wrong but that's my understanding.
That is my understanding also..
The CL(Leica-Minolta) and CLE (Minolta) have metering problems.
The RF base is short, limiting accuracy with fast lenses..
I know some folks on RFF are very happy with their CL/CLE.
I also know of some friends who had major problems..

The M6 is a good camera.
Maybe not as finely built as my M3, but more than sufficient.
I would never do such a swap.
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Old 08-10-2015   #6
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sell all of it, pick up an m7. problem solved!
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Old 08-10-2015   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by x-ray View Post
I'd say you're certifiable. A CLE in addition but not instead. I'm not sure the CLE can be repaired if certain things fail. I might be wrong but that's my understanding.
That was true when I owned a CLE years ago, it can only have gotten much worse. Cute camera, but just the wrong shape and size for my hands.
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Old 08-10-2015   #8
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Gotta buck the trend......a fine move.

The M2 is a classic M and while I loved my M6, there is something about an M2 that to me put's it in category few others are in.

The CLE is a different sort of camera, fun, small, very usable.

Well done Sir.

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Old 08-10-2015   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john_pears View Post
Am I crazy just bought a cle with m-rokkor. I will have to let go of my m6 to fund it. I decided I really wanted a camera with ae for my main camera and that if i have to meter id rather do it all mannually. I would have really liked a zeiss ikon but this way I get to keep my m2 as well for back up and shooting on days I want to pretend I can use sunny 16.
Excellent move! I love my CLEs. Really fine machines.
They both have much brighter RF patches than my Bessa R3A (they are as bright as my Leica Ms), as well as much easier to read shutter speed info in the VF.
You owe it to yourself to get a 28mm lens, as the CLE has the best VF in rangefinder world for the 28mm focal length. (better than my old M-E, my M5, my M240).
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Old 08-10-2015   #10
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Mmmmmmm. I've been there. Went back to the M6, and an Hexar RF for the days I want to shoot AE. The CLE suffers an unforgivable lack of AE lock, that at least for me, is a real dealbreaker. The shortage of repair parts was also a permanent concern at the back of my head.
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Old 08-10-2015   #11
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No AE lock? No problem! Just slap it into manual (remembering the reading) or use AE compensation.
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Old 08-10-2015   #12
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Sounds like a fine idea to me, John! I have two CLEs, as the first one quickly became a favorite.

Some folks worry about repair and parts, likely based on logical speculation. I don't hear about anyone with a dead CLE, though I suppose there must be at least one out there! My local repair guy observed that the circuit board is not an integrated system, rather it has discrete off-the-shelf components that are theoretically replaceable. Also, that board has a lot in common with one or more Minolta SLRs.

The only maintenance issue I've faced with mine has been dust/dirt accumulating in the rotary switch contacts under the shutter speed dial. The viewfinder diodes will go wonky every once in a while, and the fix is for a tech to remove the dial and clean under it.

Enjoy the CLE, great little camera that pulls well beyond its weight.
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Old 08-11-2015   #13
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I enjoyed my CLE while I had it. I considered it my Leica when my other RFF mates and I went shooting together and they had their Leica M whatever. I still like its size, viewfinder and of course it's able to mount great lenses. Never could get a decent exposure on Auto though so I tended to shoot manually with a tiny Digisix handheld meter.

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Old 08-11-2015   #14
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I wanted AE, so I bought a new R2A (I didn't want to spend the $$$ on a ZI or an M7). The CLE is a very attractive camera but I also have concerns about whether it can be repaired if something went wrong. I don't see the Bessa as replacing my Leica Ms, however.
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Old 08-11-2015   #15
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in my experience, the CLE is far more reliable than Leica.. Even the rangefinder is more robust and stays adjusted through normal use. Shutter speed timing is more accurate too. I am glad the CLE has a bad reputation; it keeps the price down. The forty is perfectly situated between fifty and thirty five. If you're into owning a minimal, no-nonsense setup, the CLE is the way to go. Buy two more bodies if you're worried about reliability. Three bodies cost as much as an M6.
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Old 08-11-2015   #16
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The CL and CLE are for folks with a certain hand size/shape. I still have mine and it certainly works well for what it is, but it doesn't hold well for me. I'm constantly unlocking the lens mount, and have had lenses start unmounting during use! ...and it doesn't hang on a strap around my neck correctly. But if I had smaller hands and held my cameras differently, I might love the CL/CLE. And I could always get a half case to make it hang on the neck strap "correctly". Hmmm, that might help with the holding issue too.... Hmmm.

Although I don't own a Zeiss Ikon, Hexar RF, or M7, I've held and used them all. And I'd have all these queued up as contenders before the CLE if I needed AE. [Personal preference]
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Old 08-11-2015   #17
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I have my second CL. I bought one new when they came out and had nothing but problems. It went back to Leica several times under warranty. I finally sold it and never regretted it.

Last year I decided I wanted another CL with or without an operating meter. I wanted it to stick in the console of my car with a couple of small lenses. I bought one that the meter worked in but it was seriously inaccurate. I decided if I could get it fixed it would be a problem again down the road so I bought a Voightlander meter I and just put it in the hot shoe. This was the solution and I like the camera but nowhere as much as my M's. I'm a longtime M user and would never think of swapping a perfectly good M for a CL/CLE. These are old cameras and always had problems. Some repair parts for the CL are gone and that's fact. I understand this is the case with the main board in the CLE also. Despite what one other person said, the CL/CLE are no where as robust as M's and weren't designed to be. They were the answer to the amateur market and the M was designed to satisfy the professional market in both features and durability. The CL and CLE were fairly short lived and for a reason. The RF is no where as good or as accurate. It might be bright but it's not designed for the accuracy needed for faster or longer glass.

You have both sides of the answer here so take your pick and best of luck with your choice.
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Old 08-11-2015   #18
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Oh that's right! We're talking about trading an M6 for a CLE....

Ummm, I have a CLE Let's talk.

Seriously, when put in this context I would not consider such a trade (unless I'm the one with the CLE, which I have by the way). If you feel the draw of a CLE, I would suggest getting one *in addition* to your M6 (and M2 I see). Whew!
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Old 08-11-2015   #19
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Don't sweat it!
You only need one *and exactly one* Leica M body. You still have your M2, enjoy your CLE and make tons of photos.
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Old 08-11-2015   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john_pears View Post
Am I crazy just bought a cle with m-rokkor. I will have to let go of my m6 to fund it. I decided I really wanted a camera with ae for my main camera and that if i have to meter id rather do it all mannually. I would have really liked a zeiss ikon but this way I get to keep my m2 as well for back up and shooting on days I want to pretend I can use sunny 16.
I had a CLE briefly but didn't like it as much as the CL; a personal preference I guess. I have the CL and M4-2 bodies now. If I wanted an M-mount film body with AE, I'd sell those two and buy an M7.

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Old 08-11-2015   #21
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I've had both the CL and the CLE. Loved the CL but it would dent and scratch way too easily. The meter is a joke. Not robust at all. As for the CLE, you pays your money and takes your chances. If any of the electronics go, good luck in trying to get it repaired. Ms are much more robust than any CL/CLE. My Ms are over 35+ years old and going strong.
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Old 08-11-2015   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john_pears View Post
Am I crazy just bought a cle with m-rokkor. I will have to let go of my m6 to fund it...
I'd rather sell old M2 and get fresh Bessa with AE.
Have you seen M6 or Bessa with dead meter? I don't.
But I have sean enough Minoltas for sale with dead meters.
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Old 08-11-2015   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john_pears View Post
Am I crazy just bought a cle with m-rokkor. I will have to let go of my m6 to fund it. I decided I really wanted a camera with ae for my main camera and that if i have to meter id rather do it all mannually. I would have really liked a zeiss ikon but this way I get to keep my m2 as well for back up and shooting on days I want to pretend I can use sunny 16.
I don't think you are certifiable. And that's my medical opinion.

On the other hand, I do hope you know what you want. If it's an AE camera that handles like an M Leica, then the Konica Hexar is the better choice. I own a Hexar and a CLE and I am sure of which one I would trade or sell. And it's not the Hexar.

The CLE has its charms. It's an M-mount point and shoot in many ways. Light, simple. It doesn't have the gravitas of a Leica or the Hexar. You chose your lenses with care and drop thoughts of ultra-shallow DOF.

Paleoboy is the person to talk to re repairs. His advice in the past seems to be that most repairs are impossible. And NOTHING under the hood is shared with the Minolta SLRs. BTW what I mean by "impossible " is that no one but Paleoboy has the parts or expertise and he doesn't repair.

There is or was a website dedicated to a complete CLE makeover with microcontroller programmed functioning.
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Old 08-11-2015   #24
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As a second thought, you are getting an M- Rokkor which may justify the CLE on its own.
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Old 08-11-2015   #25
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You chose your lenses with care and drop thoughts of ultra-shallow DOF.
Why not? The CLE is set up with frame lines to use a 90mm lens and my Marco Elmar works perfectly with it.

Sure you can't use a Nokton 1.1 or Noctilux, as the girth of those lenses block the RF window. But that's ok..
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Old 08-12-2015   #26
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Got a chance to borrow my friends CLE with the 40mm. The aperture priority exposure is some of the best I've ever used! I was blown away with how perfectly exposed my negatives were. I even used it in some strangely lit situations.

Use what you like. I think shooting mainly with a CLE ain't a bad idea at all!
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Old 08-12-2015   #27
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hey...at least you can get the m-rokkor 28mm lens really cheaply
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Old 08-12-2015   #28
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Am I crazy just bought a cle with m-rokkor. I will have to let go of my m6 to fund it.
Yes, definitely off your rokkor.
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Old 08-12-2015   #29
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Why not? The CLE is set up with frame lines to use a 90mm lens and my Marco Elmar works perfectly with it. Sure you can't use a Nokton 1.1 or Noctilux, as the girth of those lenses block the RF window. But that's ok..
I was giving myself an out with the Ultra. I have a Nikkor 85/f2 and it's a lottery wide open on the CLE.

Every camera has its genius. The lens I bought the CLE for is the Rollei 40mm/f2.8 Sonnar. It's a match made in heaven IMHO.
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Old 08-12-2015   #30
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well the die is cast (as caeser definitely didn't say) my cle and rokkor lens came in the post today, guess buying a cle today is a very marmite kind of move. i think it will fit with what i want. id love a zeiss ikon but repair may become an issue just like for the cle and the m7 is way out of my price range as my m2 is a beater and my m6 has some weird frame line issue where it won't show the 90 frame lines. I'm on a holiday so hopefully will get to try out the cle and see what i think
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Old 08-17-2015   #31
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I dont think its ever cut and dry that for every person one camera can be declared better than another. For me my journey was from a Leica M to a CLE. My M3 sat unloved on the shelf for many years. Most of the people here reflect personal preferences and that will pretty much decide for you too if a CLE is for you or not.

The main preference that most of the posts that favour an M6 arrangement miss one of the most important reasons for choosing one or the other and that is 40mm lenses. When I discovered the 40mm Summicron/Rokkors it was a revelation. It changed my ambivalence to a devoted love for the M Mount. I really dont have much affinity for 50mm lenses so to find something that little bit wider but not so wide as to distort portraits just hit the mark. I absolutely love the focal length and have almost every 40mm lens imaginable. So my love for CLE's started with a love for a 40mm focal length not the camera itself. The CLE became the natural progression being the best camera with 40mm framelines. The fact that 28mm was my next most widely used focal length made it more so. Its a question of how you prioritise features. Is the CLE as robust as an M, no it isnt. Does it have that same solid feel users often get a thrill from their Ms, no it doesnt. If you are a 50mm / 35mm lens devotee, and lets face it there are more fans of the 50 mm than the 40 then the CLE isnt going to be a camera that wins out because you will only look at the camera build quality to compare the two cameras and the lack of 50mm framelines in a CLE renders the argument null. However if you appreciate the 40mm focal lens, which for some wont use anything else then you would gladly give up a M6 for a CLE camera and lens combo. Lets not forget you did get that 40mm Rokkor in this deal so if your anything like me your M mount photography will only take off.

When I got into CLEs there were no M7s or Hexars so at the time it was the only AE M mount camera in town for a long long time.

The CLE has the best viewfinder for 28mm lenses till the Ikon came along. I prefer its compact size and its TTL flash. Its not designed for superfast lenses, having a compact camera to use with large fast lenses would be a bit at odds with keeping things small. Its horses for courses. Can a CLE be a better choice than an M6? Yes if those things that it offers is higher on your list of must haves. More often than not however an M6s features will tick all the right boxes for people.

You have the CLE in your hands now, try hold off parting with your M6 for as long as you can afford. Get a feel for the CLE and see if the camera and more importantly if the 40mm focal length is right for you.
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Old 08-17-2015   #32
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I absolutely love the focal length and have almost every 40mm lens imaginable.
Pardon the digression, but I have a few 40mm lenses. Do you have the Rollei 40mm 2.8? And if so have you experienced the wobbles? Mine seems to have come loose in the body (it will be sent to Youxin for repair), reminiscent of my ZM lenses.. I heard the Rollei 40 had CV construction.
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Old 08-18-2015   #33
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Pardon the digression, but I have a few 40mm lenses. Do you have the Rollei 40mm 2.8? And if so have you experienced the wobbles? Mine seems to have come loose in the body (it will be sent to Youxin for repair), reminiscent of my ZM lenses.. I heard the Rollei 40 had CV construction.
Hi, Yes I have a nice black example of the Rollei 40mm. I actually keep a record of the Serial numbers of all the 40mm Rollei lenses that owners have private messaged me in trying to determine the actual production number of this particular lens.

The barrel used for this lens was borrowed from the Voigtander 50mm f2.5. This lens was one of best made of the early Voitlander lenses being all brass which shows in the lens' weight. Rollei did appear to paint theirs better than Voigtlander as the Voigtlander black paint was so thin you could see the brass through it as new and would wear off in the wind. The barrel quality on the 28 f3.5 and 50 f2.5 are superb though and Rollei were right to fall back on them rather than increase costs and make their own. Where Voitglander sometimes comes undone with a few of their lenses is that they develop loose or wobbly sections. I have never read anything definitive but I always felt that perhaps the tiny grub screws that Voigtlander used where not put in tight enough or were not affixed sufficiently with some locktite type material and the weight and turning of the barrel would cause these tiny screws to work loose. The original Voigtlander 35 f1.7 was notorious for this. Because however the Rollei lens was assembled in Germany I would have thought that this problem would have been eliminated but like yours I have heard of a couple of times this has happened with this lens as well although I have never seen one in person only heard about it through these pages. Maybe the screws themselves werent up to the job and came with the barrels supplied?

I understand the problem to be perfectly correctable and an easy task for any competent lens repair technician. We all have a screw loose that needs a bit of tightening up every now and then as they say. Its a terrific lens and a good investment as they seem to have doubled their value in just the past few years. Well worth the money to get it tightened up a bit. Its not a fast lens but im sure you love it, as I have never heard an owner that wasnt pleased with the results they got from it.
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Old 08-18-2015   #34
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Thanks Joel! Yup I'm going to get it taken care of.
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Old 08-18-2015   #35
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Thanks Joel! Yup I'm going to get it taken care of.
Pleasure. Please private message your serial number and if its chrome or black. Would love to add it to my list if you have already done so.
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Old 08-18-2015   #36
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Am I crazy just bought a cle with m-rokkor. I will have to let go of my m6 to fund it. I decided I really wanted a camera with ae for my main camera and that if i have to meter id rather do it all mannually. I would have really liked a zeiss ikon but this way I get to keep my m2 as well for back up and shooting on days I want to pretend I can use sunny 16.
I really disliked the cluttered viewfinder of the CLE. Sold it within a few weeks of buying it. Many are very keen on it though.
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Old 08-24-2015   #37
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Late to the party but I love my CLE. I have pretty huge hands and I didn't mind the size of it. But I recently got the grip that was made for it and makes the handling even better.

In my opinion, if you are looking for a camera to shoot on the street, this is probably the best rangefinder you can get. It is small and discrete, 40mm works great, usually you stop down so short rangefinder base length doesn't matter as much, accurate metering.

I have an M2 and I can't get over its size. If I'm shooting 35mm I want a small camera! The Hexar RF is the same, I really wanted to like it but it's even bigger than the M2. I probably have an odd obsession with having small rangefinders.

I think the CLE kinda gets a bad reputation because the CL wasn't that reliable. While the CLE is electronic, I really think people overestimate the reliability of the camera.

My complaints about the CLE? No metering during manual exposure (why!?). I prefer the shutter speed dial on the CL. Shutter speed dial locks when changing from aperture priority to manual, especially annoying since you'll have to switch between it if you want to meter. No shutter speed read out in the viewfinder (why?!)

I actually really like the CL but the one I have has a pretty bad viewfinder relative to the CL, the meter on mine doesn't work, and the slow shutter speeds are off. But honestly, it's probably just as reliable as the M5. People just don't want to spend $200 on a CLA of a $200 camera.
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Old 08-26-2015   #38
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Late to the party but I love my CLE...
Same to me!
I switched from my M2 to Rolleiflex (6x6 TLR) and for daily use a CLE which is small and light.
Perfect combination!
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