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Old 08-19-2015   #41
Godfrey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Hicks View Post
Good! Perhaps some forum users will think a little harder before using current mindless and substantially meaningless slang (not "old language idioms") without bothering to consider what they are actually saying, e.g. "I have no brain". I am encouraged by the thought that you might join me in my little crusade.

Cheers,

R.
The American idiom "that's a no brainer" does not mean "I have no brain". It means "that is such an obvious thing it doesn't take much thinking about it to arrive at the right conclusion".

Perhaps the expression means something different in British English. You know, two nations sundered by a common language ...

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Old 08-19-2015   #42
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Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
The American idiom "that's a no brainer" does not mean "I have no brain". It means "that is such an obvious thing it doesn't take much thinking about it to arrive at the right conclusion".

Perhaps the expression means something different in British English. You know, two nations sundered by a common language ...

G
Dear Godfrey,

Well, quite. The entire point is that simple conclusions don't take much thinking. On the other hand, even the tiniest amount of thinking might reveal that actually anyone with a brain, who bothered to use that brain for a few seconds, might realize that there are lots of good reasons why someone else might come to a different conclusion.

What I object to is the assumption that anyone who reaches a different conclusion is even more stupid than the one who comes to their "no brainer" conclusion.

Cheers,

R.
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Old 08-20-2015   #43
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What I object to is the assumption that anyone who reaches a different conclusion is even more stupid than the one who comes to their "no brainer" conclusion.
I guess that you've been living in France for a very long time now. So you more than probably know the substantially meaningless slang telling "Il n'y a pas photo". And you perfectly know that it's the perfect equal to the "That's a no-brainer" you don't seem to like that much.

There are too many ways, and too many words, to try to convince normal people (having no brain) that someone else thinks they're stupid indeed. Yet, "melted ashtray", "partially formed turd" or "tub of lard" might come to mind on occasion.
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Old 08-20-2015   #44
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Ok, so some of us like one shape and some like another shape. That's a personal thing.
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Old 08-20-2015   #45
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Originally Posted by Roger Hicks View Post
Dear Godfrey,

Well, quite. The entire point is that simple conclusions don't take much thinking. On the other hand, even the tiniest amount of thinking might reveal that actually anyone with a brain, who bothered to use that brain for a few seconds, might realize that there are lots of good reasons why someone else might come to a different conclusion.

What I object to is the assumption that anyone who reaches a different conclusion is even more stupid than the one who comes to their "no brainer" conclusion.
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Originally Posted by Highway 61 View Post
I guess that you've been living in France for a very long time now. So you more than probably know the substantially meaningless slang telling "Il n'y a pas photo". And you perfectly know that it's the perfect equal to the "That's a no-brainer" you don't seem to like that much.

There are too many ways, and too many words, to try to convince normal people (having no brain) that someone else thinks they're stupid indeed. Yet, "melted ashtray", "partially formed turd" or "tub of lard" might come to mind on occasion.
Roger,

I saw nothing disparaging or negative about Highway 61's use of "no brainer" ... that was simply his opinion, enthusiastically stated.

And indeed, the use of descriptions with negative connotations as you have used is far more aggressively trying to tell someone else that their opinion is of little value, is stupid, etc. No one runs up in a moment of excitement to exclaim, "I love the new Canikopen 2005XGh22! Its partially-formed-turd shape fits my hands so well!" ... unless they're being sarcastic. Whereas someone in their excitement might happily say, "I didn't think I was going to like the Leipanonica O typic 122y at all, but as soon as I picked it up, buying it was a no-brainer!" and no one can mistake that they are saying that the camera convinced them almost instantly of its good qualities.

:-)

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Originally Posted by jsrockit View Post
Ok, so some of us like one shape and some like another shape. That's a personal thing.
Agreed. I loved shooting with my F3/T, liked its size, shape and control layout; but, upon handling the Df styled to resemble it, the Df doesn't appeal to me at all. I didn't think I was going to like the F6, but the moment I started shooting with it, it appealed to me. That the D750 is quite similar in size, shape and control layout to the F6 is one of the things that attracts me to it. That the D750 is a bit lighter is another plus because I do find the F6 a bit heavy.

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Old 08-20-2015   #46
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Agreed. I loved shooting with my F3/T, liked its size, shape and control layout; but, upon handling the Df styled to resemble it, the Df doesn't appeal to me at all. I didn't think I was going to like the F6, but the moment I started shooting with it, it appealed to me. That the D750 is quite similar in size, shape and control layout to the F6 is one of the things that attracts me to it. That the D750 is a bit lighter is another plus because I do find the F6 a bit heavy.
The great thing is that you cannot go wrong with any of the bodies mentioned when it comes to results.
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Old 08-20-2015   #47
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Besides the option to us simple controls, the excellent signal-to-noise ratio of its data stream, the Df is also surprisingly light.

This weight advantage is often offset by some of the larger, heavier lenses people typically use with DSLRs. But there are lighter F-mount lenses worth using.
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Old 08-20-2015   #48
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This weight advantage is often offset by some of the larger, heavier lenses people typically use with DSLRs. But there are lighter F-mount lenses worth using.
I agree. The Df, with it's front mounted lugs, tends to balance better with medium sized primes (though too small doesn't balance right). I had to buy a 50mm 1.8d and 28mm 2.8 AF for the DF... cheap and small (but the balance with a neck strap is a little off).
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Old 08-20-2015   #49
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I agree. The Df, with it's front mounted lugs, tends to balance better with medium sized primes (though too small doesn't balance right). I had to buy a 50mm 1.8d and 28mm 2.8 AF for the DF... cheap and small (but the balance with a neck strap is a little off).
JS, have you ever used it with the 70-200 or 80-200? I think I'm going to ask NPS if they can send me a Df or D810 to play around with. Thanks for all the thoughts so far folks. It's good to hear from people that have real world experience with the cameras.
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Old 08-20-2015   #50
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You know the pros & cons.

If I were you, I would get the 800 and use the old camera for sports.

Owning a bunch of old unchiped lenses means the DF if you change lenses often and in a hurry.

Double the pixels means 30% bigger prints LINEARLY, Important to you?

The 800 is a bit bigger, but todays lenses are bigger and heavier and a few oz of body weight makes no difference.

I find all the film non pro Nikon bodies lacking design aesthetics except for my Nikormat. DF is the same with the big oversized pentaprism for the body and a hot shoe that will not come off. GAG.
It comes down to do you like the appearance and the dial controls.
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Old 08-20-2015   #51
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I would not consider the D800 to be small or light... the Df actually is.
I completely agree.
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Old 08-21-2015   #52
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Maybe it's just me and don't get me wrong if I didn't have too many dslrs already I would probably buy a Df but what is the benefit of the df when shooting manual focus lenses compared to a d800 or 700 except for ai part that flips out the way?
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Old 08-21-2015   #53
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JS, have you ever used it with the 70-200 or 80-200?
No, I haven't. I don't use zooms generally. I use a cheap 80-200mm f4-5.6d lens for the few telephoto shots I need a year. It's plastic, small, and super light... and actually not horrible. It balances right on the Df too. I would think if you are going to use large zooms, the Df might not be the best option.
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Old 08-21-2015   #54
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Maybe it's just me and don't get me wrong if I didn't have too many dslrs already I would probably buy a Df but what is the benefit of the df when shooting manual focus lenses compared to a d800 or 700 except for ai part that flips out the way?
No real advantage... just a preference in body styles for the most part.
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Old 08-21-2015   #55
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Originally Posted by Fraser View Post
Maybe it's just me and don't get me wrong if I didn't have too many dslrs already I would probably buy a Df but what is the benefit of the df when shooting manual focus lenses compared to a d800 or 700 except for ai part that flips out the way?
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No real advantage... just a preference in body styles for the most part.
that was my impression too. All my preAI lenses have been AIed now anyway.

G
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Old 08-21-2015   #56
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This thread just make me want a Df even more.
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Old 08-21-2015   #57
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This thread just make me want a Df even more.
I'm placing my order for a D750 this week... :-)

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Old 08-21-2015   #58
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Will, what are you currently using? I haven't felt as good about a camera (as I have about the Df) since the I first used the X-Pro1. My fellow, local RFF buddies are sick of hearing me call it the best camera ever made... they just roll their eyes (as they probably should).
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Old 08-21-2015   #59
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I'm placing my order for a D750 this week... :-)
Smart move if the DF isn't for you. It seems to be the best cross between price, functionality, and size.
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Old 08-21-2015   #60
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Originally Posted by jsrockit View Post
No, I haven't. I don't use zooms generally. I use a cheap 80-200mm f4-5.6d lens for the few telephoto shots I need a year. It's plastic, small, and super light... and actually not horrible. It balances right on the Df too. I would think if you are going to use large zooms, the Df might not be the best option.
Just as a note - I use the DF with an 80-200 quite often. It looks terrible on the camera and the balance is pretty awful, but the files are still great. I definitely prefer these lenses on the D4 simply because of the balance, but that doesn't stop me from slapping a tele on the DF mid-shoot if that's what I'm already using. Having two helps with this regard...though I must admit I always reach for the black DF before the silver (because of how sleek it looks).
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Old 08-21-2015   #61
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D750 is now $1399 new gray market on ebay
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Old 08-21-2015   #62
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Originally Posted by jsrockit View Post
Smart move if the DF isn't for you. It seems to be the best cross between price, functionality, and size.
That's my feeling too. I've been enjoying the F6, added a couple of lenses to my lens kit that I'm very happy with, and am thinking that a digital body with same format and overall size/weight/control ergonomics makes sense. 24 Mpixel is enough for my purposes, and the same as the Leica M-P... the D750 seems the best match for me.

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D750 is now $1399 new gray market on ebay
Yes, I saw a couple of vendors offering them in that range. It's a good discount; I prefer to have Nikon USA distributor service and support, however. I haven't decided where to buy from yet.

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Old 08-22-2015   #63
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Originally Posted by jsrockit View Post
Will, what are you currently using? I haven't felt as good about a camera (as I have about the Df) since the I first used the X-Pro1. My fellow, local RFF buddies are sick of hearing me call it the best camera ever made... they just roll their eyes (as they probably should).
John, I'm still using Fuji S3 for my Nikon lenses.
I've seen and used the Df briefly when I spot a gentleman using it in an IT workshop. The man turned out to be a film photographer based in Seattle. He said that the Df is the only digital he has.

I think I am going to enjoy the Df a lot.
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Old 08-22-2015   #64
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I'm placing my order for a D750 this week... :-)

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Sure, rub it in!

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Old 08-22-2015   #65
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Sure, rub it in!

Well, it's my birthday this week. An unexpected windfall and a birthday gift are financing most of the cost of the D750. I've got all the lenses and memory cards I need for it already.

I ain't complaining!

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Old 08-23-2015   #66
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Originally Posted by jsrockit View Post
Will, what are you currently using? I haven't felt as good about a camera (as I have about the Df) since the I first used the X-Pro1. My fellow, local RFF buddies are sick of hearing me call it the best camera ever made... they just roll their eyes (as they probably should).
BTW, nice avatar I think I've got the perfect pairing, F6 / Df. What else would I need!
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Old 08-23-2015   #67
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Maybe it's just me and don't get me wrong if I didn't have too many dslrs already I would probably buy a Df but what is the benefit of the df when shooting manual focus lenses compared to a d800 or 700 except for ai part that flips out the way?
There is no benefit at all. In spite of the huge pentaprism top cover with no built-in flash added and which could make people think of a huge 100% viewfinder image with big magnification and high eyepoint at the same time, the Df still has the exact same viewfinder you fill find in the D600 and D610.

The DK-17M lupe adds some benefit. And you can use it thanks to the Df round eyepiece. Make sure to secure it with a small dab of nail gloss unless you will lose it sooner or later.

Still, for manual focusing, the D700 with the DK-17M lupe and a Katzeye split image focusing screen remains the best setting for people who went that way some years ago.

And this cannot be reproduced on any other Nikon DSLR so far... Just because Katzeye have closed their doors now.
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Old 09-18-2015   #68
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I just finished a shoot for one of my clients using the Df and 85 1.4 D. As you can see the camera has excellent tonality, skin tones and sharpness.
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Old 09-18-2015   #69
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There is no benefit at all. In spite of the huge pentaprism top cover with no built-in flash added and which could make people think of a huge 100% viewfinder image with big magnification and high eyepoint at the same time, the Df still has the exact same viewfinder you fill find in the D600 and D610.
Is this fact?
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Old 09-18-2015   #70
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Is this fact?
The D610, Df and D4 all have 100% coverage with 0.7 magnification (Canon is slightly better with .71 magnification for the 5D mark 3 and .76 for the 1Dx). I'm wondering what Highway 61 was expecting.....
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Old 09-18-2015   #71
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I've had the D750 a couple of weeks now. Getting comfortable with it—the F6 is much simpler and faster to learn, but I expected that. ;-)

I don't know what the magnification, etc, of the D750 viewfinder is, but I find it an excellent viewfinder. The camera is nicely a bit smaller and lighter than the F6 without being ostentatiously different in any serious way. This is what I was looking for, so I'm pleased.

Despite having the Nikkor 50/1.2 AI-S, I use a 50 so much of the time I acquired the 50/1.8G AF-S. Nice little lens, very inexpensive, and it looks to be a wonderfully sharp performer with nice bokeh.

fun fun fun ...
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