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Pentax FF
Old 09-09-2015   #1
giellaleafapmu
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Pentax FF

This is a forum with many Pentax lover and user but I haven't heard much talking about the soon to come FF from them. Am I the only one who is waiting with some interest? I doubt that I shall change system for theirs but in the APS realm they got some really attractive offer, if the price is low enough...

GLF
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Old 09-09-2015   #2
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No, you are not the only one, unless the FF is the size of a Canon FF I will buy the Pentax. I don't have much use for it but I have the dinero and I don't care for golf, Rollex watches, or expensive cars.
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Old 09-09-2015   #3
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No, you are not the only one, unless the FF is the size of a Canon FF I will buy the Pentax. I don't have much use for it but I have the dinero and I don't care for golf, Rollex watches, or expensive cars.
Neither do I, but then there are so many other things to buy...traveling, MF gear, a larger house...

GLF
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Old 09-09-2015   #4
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Haven't looked to see but pentax forums is probably full of talk about it. Love pentax but I'm a film using dinosaur.
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Old 09-09-2015   #5
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Curious, I'm very curious after all this time, what can Pentax have up to their sleeve?
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Old 09-09-2015   #6
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I hope so. Pentax has some legendary lenses and it would be great to have the opportunity to shoot them full frame. The FA 77mm is one of my all-time favorites.
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Old 09-09-2015   #7
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at this point in the game, pentax is going to have to make a compact yet extremely well designed dslr to compete with the likes of the sony a7rii and fuji x-t1 and forthcoming x-pro2. they're also going to have to plan lens releases perfectly. they've put it off for so long that i don't think they can afford any slip-ups.
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Old 09-09-2015   #8
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I used Pentax gear for several years and it performed reasonably well, most of the time. But I found their quality control somewhat uneven, both bodies and lenses, and ultimately preferred Olympus gear on that basis. Now that I've upped my ante back to Leica and Nikon, nothing Pentax is producing is relevant any longer.

The Pentax FA43/1.9 and FA77/1.8 Limiteds were the best lenses they offered that I had, the 43 in particular, and I understand they might be discontinued now.

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Old 09-09-2015   #9
giellaleafapmu
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Originally Posted by aizan View Post
at this point in the game, pentax is going to have to make a compact yet extremely well designed dslr to compete with the likes of the sony a7rii and fuji x-t1 and forthcoming x-pro2. they're also going to have to plan lens releases perfectly. they've put it off for so long that i don't think they can afford any slip-ups.
From the mock-ups it seems that it would rather be a classical DSLR design, with a prism and so on, and I am happy if it is that way. The ability of using all sort of legacy lenses is nice sometimes but there are other times when having a fast autofocus, tracking capability, weather sealed body and so on it actully needed. In fact, I don't see why one would need a new mirrorless body with the same sluggish autofocus and which once you have mounted a lens is actually almost as heavy as a full sized DSLR each five mounths as Sony seems to think. Ok, each time the pixel count becomes higher but probably people using old lenses are not really using them because of their resolving power, so 25 or 35 or 50 is actually the same. I might eventually also get one of these "mount-them-all" body but that will be one to be used for a long long timejust the way I now use my Ricoh GXR. On the other hand if they get a rugged body capable of some 7 fps and with a decent image quality at the right price they can have my money. Actually, rumors seem to say it will use a Sony 42 Mpx sensor and have a APS mode capable of decent speed. If the rumors prove to be right and there is nothing strange (shutter exploding, sensor self-destroying, who can say?) they seem to be going for a do-it-all design which can easily become the only camera in teh bag.

GLF
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Old 09-09-2015   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by giellaleafapmu View Post
TAm I the only one who is waiting with some interest?
The wait has been so long that probably only diehard Pentax fans are still excited. What the latest rumors now say?
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Old 09-10-2015   #11
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I'm interested, but only if Pentax makes nice small primes for it.
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Old 09-10-2015   #12
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If it has a prism and long register.....well that will be tough to sell many.

A good EVIL FF, short register, with a film lens friendly sensor would be another matter.
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Old 09-10-2015   #13
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If it leads to full frame Ricoh GR versions I'm supporting!
A full frame GXR module camera would also be most welcome!
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Old 09-10-2015   #14
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May I ask why all the obsession with a short register mirrorless. When it didn't exist we couldn't mount our old lenses on anything, now there are a couple of options, what could possibly be more interesting in the Pentax offering? Not AF because it is not there, not price because Sonys are already pretty cheap (especially the model from three mounts ago with only 35 Mpx), so what? For me a new FF platform is interesting or it is not interesting if it has something to offer in general. In APS Pentax has cheaper bodies which are completely sealed, small primes and a few long lenses which are cheaper than the corresponding Canicon offers, if that remain true for the FF body that would be enough. Sometimes just having one lens at a lower price justify buying the body.

GLF
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Old 09-10-2015   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by giellaleafapmu View Post
May I ask why all the obsession with a short register mirrorless.
GLF
Because, if well designed it can be much much smaller than a D810 or the like. With the right sensor the whole lens set can be way smaller.

Also, the short register allows easy adaptability, for those who like lenses.

Sorry, I'm obsessive about not dragging monster DLSRs everywhere.
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Old 09-10-2015   #16
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Originally Posted by f16sunshine View Post
If it leads to full frame Ricoh GR versions I'm supporting!
+100 to this.

A full-frame GR will put me in front of the pre-order queue.
Ideally with a pop-up OVF in place of the useless tiny flash. I can even live with EVF.

Back to DSLR world, I think Pentax could turn heads with a retro throwback like Nikon Df. Maybe an FF digital with the styling (if not size) of Pentax LX.
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Old 09-10-2015   #17
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Originally Posted by uhoh7 View Post
Because, if well designed it can be much much smaller than a D810 or the like. With the right sensor the whole lens set can be way smaller.

Also, the short register allows easy adaptability, for those who like lenses.

Sorry, I'm obsessive about not dragging monster DLSRs everywhere.
Yep, I understand, but these already exist from other brands and I don't see what could be better in a Pentax offering. Besides, really the size thing is nor really there, a Sony A7 with a pancake maybe, but as soon as you put a normal lens, especially if it was designed for SLR, you get a camera which is already not really small. Once you had that you need a couple of couple of batteries to match the duration of one battery in a DSLR you could as well get a more capable camera.

GLF
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Old 09-10-2015   #18
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Originally Posted by shadowfox View Post
Back to DSLR world, I think Pentax could turn heads with a retro throwback like Nikon Df. Maybe an FF digital with the styling (if not size) of Pentax LX.
It sure could, but I have a feeling it'll be more like the K-3 II.
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Old 09-10-2015   #19
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Originally Posted by giellaleafapmu View Post
Yep, I understand, but these already exist from other brands and I don't see what could be better in a Pentax offering. Besides, really the size thing is nor really there, a Sony A7 with a pancake maybe, but as soon as you put a normal lens, especially if it was designed for SLR, you get a camera which is already not really small. Once you had that you need a couple of couple of batteries to match the duration of one battery in a DSLR you could as well get a more capable camera.

GLF
Doubtless I'm in the minority but as someone with a few M42 lenses, I rather like the idea of a full frame DSLR with in body image stabilisation to use my manual focus lenses with. I have zero interest in crop sensor bodies. Other makes of DSLR such as Canon have IS built into their lenses not their bodies.
Don't bother suggesting crop sensor or mirrorless image quality is good enough either. It has zero to do with IQ for me. Simply that taking a lens off whatever 35mm SLR I have with me and fitting it to a DSLR yielding a different angle of view would do my head in. These are not the typical reasons someone might be interested in the new Pentax, however I also know I am not the only member of this forum who feels similarly about it.
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Old 09-10-2015   #20
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Probably a FF K-01

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Originally Posted by Sarcophilus Harrisii View Post
Doubtless I'm in the minority but as someone with a few M42 lenses, I rather like the idea of a full frame DSLR with in body image stabilisation to use my manual focus lenses with. I have zero interest in crop sensor bodies. Other makes of DSLR such as Canon have IS built into their lenses not their bodies.
You know, there is quite a lot to say about in lens stabilisation as well. It was a very good surprise when the stabilisation of my new Canon 24-105 IS worked without a hitch on my ancient EOS RT film body. Now I have a great stabilised zoom on film.
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Old 09-10-2015   #21
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It sure could, but I have a feeling it'll be more like the K-3 II.
The K-3 is a real winner... a K-3-like FF camera should do well even if slightly larger to accommodate the larger sensor. But that puts it head-to-head with popular Nikon & Canon DSLRs.

Seems to me Pentax would want to find a niche with minimal competition, and expand it. As with the 645Z, where the only direct competitor is about twice the price. But given the 645Z option for a sensor larger than APS-C, I wonder if a FF DSLR is in Pentax's future...
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Old 09-10-2015   #22
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The K-3 is a real winner... a K-3-like FF camera should do well even if slightly larger to accommodate the larger sensor.
I agree.

Quote:
But that puts it head-to-head with popular Nikon & Canon DSLRs.
It already goes head to head in the APS-C realm. Pentax die-hards have been clamoring for a FF model for many, many years and have not abandoned ship yet.

Quote:
Seems to me Pentax would want to find a niche with minimal competition, and expand it. As with the 645Z, where the only direct competitor is about twice the price. But given the 645Z option for a sensor larger than APS-C, I wonder if a FF DSLR is in Pentax's future...
It's a rumor, but one that seems to have more momentum than usual.
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Old 09-10-2015   #23
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Originally Posted by giellaleafapmu View Post
Yep, I understand, but these already exist from other brands and I don't see what could be better in a Pentax offering. Besides, really the size thing is nor really there, a Sony A7 with a pancake maybe, but as soon as you put a normal lens, especially if it was designed for SLR, you get a camera which is already not really small. Once you had that you need a couple of couple of batteries to match the duration of one battery in a DSLR you could as well get a more capable camera.

GLF
No one makes a small EVIL FF friendly to film lenses.

Well, unless you count the M9

Gapping hole in the market right now.
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Old 09-10-2015   #24
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Some lenses will become more sought after. Some people find those mirrorless cameras somewhat rinky dink, regardless of the sensor.
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Old 09-10-2015   #25
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No one makes a small EVIL FF friendly to film lenses.

Well, unless you count the M9

Gapping hole in the market right now.
I am sorry, now I am not following: what kind of friendly interface would you expect? Sensors have well-known problems with regard to light striking from odd angles, so certain old design will never really work too well, even if some correction is done to vignetting, like in the GRX M-mount module. Manual focus in a EVIL how can be implemented other than with focus peak, stripes, stuff like this? And the M9 how is it special in any way if compared to other recent M-mount Leicas? Besides, they are not even EVIL cameras. Finally, why not counting Leicas if the purpose is to use Leitz glasses? They have always been very expensive lenses, so even the price should not be a problem: if you had the money to buy a lot of lenses in film era you probably have the money now to buy a digital Leica.

GLF
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Old 09-11-2015   #26
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No one makes a small EVIL FF friendly to film lenses.
for all film lenses or just for M lenses?
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Old 09-11-2015   #27
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An increase in sensor area alone is only half the story. This is also the case when sensor area decreases.

The lens-sensor combination is what matters. There is no inherent advantage/disadvantage to 24 X 36mm, APS-C or m4/3 sensor areas. The advantages and disadvantages come into play when one considers lens selections. (note: larger sensor areas do provide a small but real theoretical advantage independent of lens area)

A Pentax 24 X 36 mm DSLR would have to work well with optics designed for film cameras. Pentax has a large number of lens variants. It's hard to see how all the variants will work well with a 24 X 36 mm sensor.

Since some believe short register bodies are incapable of proper AF, the number of Pentax variants that would perform well with AF would be reduced accordingly. Perhaps Pentax can do what Nikon and Canon have refused to do... sell a DSLR body with excellent MF tools. This would appeal to hobbyists who enjoy experimenting with repurposed lenses. However Pentax would be risking profits from new lens sales.

The SMC Pentax-FA 31mm F1.8 AL Limited and SMC Pentax-FA 35mm F2 AL are a bit slow for APS-C sensors. Their lens surface areas are not quite large enough to cancel the light collecting difference between APS-C and 24 X 36 MM surface areas. This does not mean these aren't excellent lenses. Even the Fujifilm X-Series lenses are barely large enough to minimize the disadvantages of the smaller sensor area. Even then, people whine about lens size (23/1.4, 56/1.2) for some of the Fujinons.
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Old 09-11-2015   #28
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Perhaps Pentax can do what Nikon and Canon have refused to do... sell a DSLR body with excellent MF tools.
I am sure many already know this, but there are actually ways to make modern DSLR much better with respect to MF by changing the screen (actually I find that the web site selling focusing screens with the same name is a good source) and using a magnifying eyepiece such as Nikon DK-17M or Nikon DK-21M (for Nikon, depending on the shape of the eyepiece, Canon, Pentax etc. equivalent to be looked up if interested, but they exist). In an article known blogger Ming Thein claims that the precision possible is not up to his standards for high Mpx cameras but for normal use (not f1.2 lens wide open on a 50 Mpx camera, just a f 2.0 lens on a 24 Mpx sensor) I find them immensely useful.

GLF
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Old 09-11-2015   #29
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It'll be nice for people to be able to use their good lenses, anyway.
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Old 09-11-2015   #30
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for all film lenses or just for M lenses?
Well the 240 is friendly. With the A7 it depends on the lens, but SLR glass is also effected by the thick sensor cover. Varying degrees per lens and most acute at infinity.

That's why there is a Kolari mod.
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Old 09-11-2015   #31
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Thanks uhoh7.
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Old 09-11-2015   #32
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It sure could, but I have a feeling it'll be more like the K-3 II.
I agree, and I'm sorry, but it's so boring.

Sometimes I wonder why are they so afraid to use their own legacy (and in Pentax's case, some *very* popular cameras) as a model for an important release such as this.

Olympus, Fuji, and Nikon have already shown that "going retro" is a good step marketing-wise.
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Old 09-11-2015   #33
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A Pentax 24 X 36 mm DSLR would have to work well with optics designed for film cameras. Pentax has a large number of lens variants. It's hard to see how all the variants will work well with a 24 X 36 mm sensor.
A FF sensor should be able to handle SLR lenses just fine though, no? The back focus distance of K-mount lenses can be no less than about 40mm from the image plane (counting the lenses' extension beyond the flange distance) so even ultrawides will have roughly the same placement of the rear nodal point as standard lenses. That should keep the angle that the light rays are hitting the sensor in check and prevent vingetting and color shifts.

Other than stronger CA and the risk of aliasing, my experience has been that older SLR lenses work just as well on FF digital as they did on film.
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Old 09-11-2015   #34
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How about making it like Ricoh Mirai, with 24-200 lens and shutter release on handle?
I bet no one could keep silence seeing this, either way.
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Old 09-12-2015   #35
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How about making it like Ricoh Mirai, with 24-200 lens and shutter release on handle?
I bet no one could keep silence seeing this, either way.
Wow, that thing is crazy...
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Old 09-14-2015   #36
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How about making it like Ricoh Mirai, with 24-200 lens and shutter release on handle?
I bet no one could keep silence seeing this, either way.
According to http://www.digicamhistory.com/1988.html

"The Ricoh Mirai was a joint project with Olympus; the Olympus Infinity Super Zoom 330 being nearly identical."

Two of my favorite camera companies. They should do more joint projects together.
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Old 09-14-2015   #37
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Two of my favorite camera companies. They should do more joint projects together.
Sadly, third favorite has fallen out of pack. Yashica I mean.
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Old 09-14-2015   #38
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I agree, and I'm sorry, but it's so boring.

Sometimes I wonder why are they so afraid to use their own legacy (and in Pentax's case, some *very* popular cameras) as a model for an important release such as this.

Olympus, Fuji, and Nikon have already shown that "going retro" is a good step marketing-wise.
I agree, but I purchased a K-3 II over the weekend. It was time to try one. I needed something that focused in low-light, that was light, and relatively small....while not being $2000. It's a nice camera even if it isn't my usual type.
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Old 09-17-2015   #39
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The latest from Ricoh Pentax is that the full frame is now delayed from this fall to the Spring 2016. Noticed posted here http://www.pentax.com/en/pentaxff/
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Old 09-18-2015   #40
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The latest from Ricoh Pentax is that the full frame is now delayed from this fall to the Spring 2016. Noticed posted here http://www.pentax.com/en/pentaxff/
Hey, at least it's from a reliable source.
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