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Not Ok to photograph on the TTC?
Old 05-24-2018   #1
BLKRCAT
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Not Ok to photograph on the TTC?

Been meaning to post this up for quite some time to see what everyone here thinks of my observations.

So last year the TTC (Toronto Transit Commission for those unfamiliar) launched an anti harassment campaign entitled "This Is Where..." Essentially putting stickers and posters in various locations on their vehicles denouncing an act of harassment in the exact vicinity of the sticker or poster.

The messages address various incidents from sexual harassment to racism. I do find though that the overbearing tone is that of sexual harassment against women.

You can read more about it here

Some examples:




Overall I think that it's an interesting campaign and overall I do support it's message. Except when I ran into this sticker.



With the entire campaign seemingly calling out bigots or sexual offenders on the subway it feels a little strange to be lumped in to that category if you are on the TTC and photograph someone. I know there are many people who photograph on transit systems and those that I know personally are far from sexual deviants. Generally I don't find modern images on public transit very exciting or appealing so I don't really shoot it anyways but there are still great opportunities every now and then to get some interesting and nice shots.

The TTC also alongside this campaign has posters with sketches and drawings of riders by riders on the TTC. So apparently it's ok to draw someone without their consent, but not ok to take a picture of them even though the end result could be in a similar light.

What do you guys think? Do you think that street photographers are being demonized by being associated with other serious levels of harassment? Would it be something that would deter you from taking images on public transit? How would you feel if someone got triggered from you taking an image and confronted you as a sexual offender?
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Old 05-24-2018   #2
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A person should follow their country's law about photography, otherwise... shoot away.
I personally find pictures of people sleeping uninteresting.
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Old 05-24-2018   #3
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Of course, if you know what you're doing and you do it tastefully, no one is the wiser.

Guesstimate focusing, metering and framing. A unbelievable exhibit of technique, and what an eye he had. Ck out the tonal values. I wonder of he shot these w/ Tri-X, because it sure looks like the OLD Tri-X.

https://www.google.com/search?q=walk...w=1280&bih=631

https://www.moma.org/learn/moma_lear...traits-1938-41
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Old 05-24-2018   #4
Ko.Fe.
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OP is very brave to post this. I'm simply afraid by now to even question about what is happening in Toronto..
So, I support this campaign in general. Personally, I quit from taking pictures of ladies just because sometimes I feel kind of emotionally and else elevated by looking at them.

On the opposite side; same country allowed Calgary judge to work again, after his comment to woman to keep knees together. https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.thes...law-again.html
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Old 05-24-2018   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidnewtonguitars View Post
I personally find pictures of people sleeping uninteresting.
Normally, yes. But this pic Michael Bialecki took with the dog sleeping with the people is great:


https://www.rangefinderforum.com/for...&postcount=268
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Old 05-24-2018   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidnewtonguitars View Post
I personally find pictures of people sleeping uninteresting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huss
Normally, yes. (...)
The more I think of it, the more I find that we now in 2018 all live in a very, very sad world which offers us the choice between stupidity and stupidity.

http://pro.magnumphotos.com/image/PAR19182.html

http://pro.magnumphotos.com/image/NYC95189.html
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Old 05-24-2018   #7
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I was just in Toronto and took taxis and Uber to get around. I'm kind of glad I didn't take the transit with all the harassment going on there. Is it safe? Is this the message the TTC wishes to underscore?
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Old 05-24-2018   #8
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this
https://pro.magnumphotos.com/Package/2K7O3RJSJ42A
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Old 05-24-2018   #9
rfaspen
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I suspect Elena had her picture taken by TTC. Many security cameras about today.
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Old 05-24-2018   #10
davidnewtonguitars
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My point exactly: Even HCB & Robert Capa make uninteresting photos when the subjects are sleeping.
But I still wouldn't call them stupid.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Highway 61 View Post
The more I think of it, the more I find that we now in 2018 all live in a very, very sad world which offers us the choice between stupidity and stupidity.

http://pro.magnumphotos.com/image/PAR19182.html

http://pro.magnumphotos.com/image/NYC95189.html
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Old 05-24-2018   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidnewtonguitars View Post
My point exactly: Even HCB & Robert Capa make uninteresting photos when the subjects are sleeping.
But I still wouldn't call them stupid.
Davidson seem to nail it in both of the photos of folks sleeping in Subway.
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Old 05-24-2018   #12
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They may just be saying not to be a "creepy" photographer.


Like many other things, photography can be abused/misapplied.


- Murray
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Old 05-24-2018   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ptpdprinter View Post
I was just in Toronto and took taxis and Uber to get around. I'm kind of glad I didn't take the transit with all the harassment going on there. Is it safe?

I never took Uber for now, anywhere. Maybe in future, if some company pays for it. And taxi in Toronto means some guy doing two jobs. Driving (so-so) taxi and working on the phone line. I think they are at some stock exchange somewhere. I don't know their language. I'm not sure how it could be safer comparing to TTC driver. Those could just stop and go for coffee:
https://torontolife.com/food/urban-d...ic-transit-10/
They get high sometimes, too.
https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/two-ttc-e...ting-1.3407117
https://torontolife.com/city/toronto...ound-with-pot/
It just how Toronto smells sometimes now then I get chance to walk. I prefer to walk instead of taxi and TTC.

But this is how dangerous TTC looks like. The moment of truth, ta-da!:



Those pesky and "very spoiled" Canadians. I think this military group (a.k.a. Air Cadets) at Union Station is watching them!



Taken with Canadian Leicas. It gives special permission on TTC. I tell them what this camera was built by Canadian union. TTC is the union run.
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Old 05-24-2018   #14
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Buy Union!


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Old 05-24-2018   #15
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Think about this challenge: There are photos referenced here by HCB, Capa, Davidson, Michael Bialecki, and Ko.Fe. Try to block out the photographer and just focus on the photos themselves, nothing else. Derive your own like/dislike or critique. Surprising?
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Old 05-26-2018   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLKRCAT View Post
With the entire campaign seemingly calling out bigots or sexual offenders on the subway it feels a little strange to be lumped in to that category if you are on the TTC and photograph someone. I know there are many people who photograph on transit systems and those that I know personally are far from sexual deviants. Generally I don't find modern images on public transit very exciting or appealing so I don't really shoot it anyways but there are still great opportunities every now and then to get some interesting and nice shots.

The TTC also alongside this campaign has posters with sketches and drawings of riders by riders on the TTC. So apparently it's ok to draw someone without their consent, but not ok to take a picture of them even though the end result could be in a similar light.

What do you guys think? Do you think that street photographers are being demonized by being associated with other serious levels of harassment? Would it be something that would deter you from taking images on public transit? How would you feel if someone got triggered from you taking an image and confronted you as a sexual offender?
Thanks for posting this. I also find it offensive that the TTC is training people to view photographers the same way they would view someone who is sexually harassing or even assaulting someone.

Glad that you also mentioned the irony that at the same time the TTC is promoting its "Sketching the Line" posters. Here's a link to a Toronto Life featurette on that contest: https://torontolife.com/culture/art/...hing-the-line/

Here's an excerpt from that: "I sat down, looked up and there he was. I cant say how long I sketched him for it could have been hours." Hours is fine, but 1/125 second is verboten.
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Old 05-26-2018   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve M. View Post
Of course, if you know what you're doing and you do it tastefully, no one is the wiser.

Guesstimate focusing, metering and framing. A unbelievable exhibit of technique, and what an eye he had. Ck out the tonal values. I wonder of he shot these w/ Tri-X, because it sure looks like the OLD Tri-X.

https://www.google.com/search?q=walk...w=1280&bih=631

https://www.moma.org/learn/moma_lear...traits-1938-41
TX didn't exist back then.
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Old 05-26-2018   #18
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I've seen someone sketching while on the subway. I will say it's not very discrete. Once you figure out what they are doing it's pretty easy to feel them looking at you.

I was sketched once. I will say that I noticed the guy and I did feel a little intruded upon. Only because the process took some time. Being that I take pictures of people and I understand the concept I would never bother to confront them. But someone else might react differently.
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