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View Poll Results: Most-Hated M Model?
M3 11 1.77%
M2 3 0.48%
M4 3 0.48%
M4-2 65 10.48%
M4-P 15 2.42%
M5 303 48.87%
M6 7 1.13%
M6 TTL 13 2.10%
M7 20 3.23%
MP (new and original) 11 1.77%
M8 146 23.55%
M9 23 3.71%
Voters: 620. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-25-2018   #121
Roger Hicks
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The problem with the M5, in my opinion, is that it doesn't look like the other Ms. Purely an aesthetic issue. To the style-conscious Leica collector in the 1970s, the M5 was tacky. It was new and different. It didn't cry out "old money" like the M3 and M4 did.
Well, I'd been using Leicas for a few years when the M5 came out: I still have the original brochure. I'd started with real (screw-mount) Leicas with a IIIa in 1969 and I'd recently got my first M, a second-hand M3. My reaction to the M5 was nothing to do with my being "style-conscious": the M3 was pretty portly next to screw-mount, and the M5 was just too damn' big and awkward.

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Old 10-25-2018   #122
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I think a late and deserved entry will shoot to the top of the charts.

The M10D, with its non functional fake film wind must already be the most maligned Leica ever. And fair enough really.
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Old 10-25-2018   #123
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I wasn't alive when the M5 came out, but the most maligned one in the last decade seems to be the M240.

There were so many criticisms. Too big, too heavy, bad colors, useless video. In comparison to the M240, the M9 and M10 seem universally loved (by people who like Leica M cameras.)

The M8 was the first digital M. It had a lot of flaws, but people didn't have many expectations then. It had a smaller sensor, but Leica said full frame wasn't possible at the time.
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Old 10-25-2018   #124
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The most maligned are the M5, M4-2, M7, M8 and the M9 and variants with the bad sensors. Which means there was a long stretch (three or four decades) between the M4 (and its metered equivalent the M6) and the M240, where Leica produced nothing but maligned cameras. The current cameras are all modeled after the M2/M3 from the 1950s, now including Leica's latest innovation: the fake film advance lever, not coincidentally also of M2/M3 design. Seriously, it's like they haven't had a good idea in 60 years.
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Old 10-25-2018   #125
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Originally Posted by ptpdprinter View Post
The most maligned are the M5, M4-2, M7, M8 and the M9 and variants with the bad sensors. Which means there was a long stretch (three or four decades) between the M4 (and its metered equivalent the M6) and the M240, where Leica produced nothing but maligned cameras. The current cameras are all modeled after the M2/M3 from the 1950s, now including Leica's latest innovation: the fake film advance lever, not coincidentally also of M2/M3 design. Seriously, it's like they haven't had a good idea in 60 years.
Well, aside from all the lenses (and the aqueduct and the sanitation and...)
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Old 10-25-2018   #126
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I hate the last Leica m10-D. Because of the useless lever that’s used as a thumb grip. I mean come on Leica you could do better! Why not try to introduce a real lever for cocking the shutter? Wasted opportunity!
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Old 11-21-2018   #127
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I hate the last Leica m10-D. Because of the useless lever that’s used as a thumb grip. I mean come on Leica you could do better! Why not try to introduce a real lever for cocking the shutter? Wasted opportunity!
Leica claims there's no room in the digital bodies for the manual cocking mechanism.
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Old 11-21-2018   #128
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Well, I'd been using Leicas for a few years when the M5 came out: I still have the original brochure. I'd started with real (screw-mount) Leicas with a IIIa in 1969 and I'd recently got my first M, a second-hand M3. My reaction to the M5 was nothing to do with my being "style-conscious": the M3 was pretty portly next to screw-mount, and the M5 was just too damn' big and awkward.

Cheers,

R.
Some M5 fans then would say: "my hands are very large" ...
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Old 11-21-2018   #129
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Quote:
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Some M5 fans then would say: "my hands are very large" ...
I resemble this remark.
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Old 11-22-2018   #130
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I went by four pages. It looks like in addition to M-E and M4-2, M5 would be great addition. With pancake lens
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Old 11-22-2018   #131
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Leica claims there's no room in the digital bodies for the manual cocking mechanism.
The fact that they would even consider it is scary.
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Old 11-22-2018   #132
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I would say the most maligned Leica M is the M 4-2

I can't even count the amount of threads started by asking if the M4-2 is inferior to other M Leicas in the nearly 15 years I been on this forum.
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Old 11-22-2018   #133
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The M5 is the best M Leica there is. The second is the M3. The worst is the MDa: no viewfinder!

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Old 11-23-2018   #134
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Originally Posted by Erik van Straten View Post
The M5 is the best M Leica there is. The second is the M3. The worst is the MDa: no viewfinder!

Erik.
....in your opinion.

John
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Old 11-23-2018   #135
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....in your opinion.

John
Well ... yes. There are 285 votes against the M5, but I am quite sure that not all these 285 people have ever tried one. Nevertheless they have an opinion about the M5. My opinion is based on my personal experience. I've tried all the film M's.

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Old 11-23-2018   #136
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Hi Erik,

What makes the M5 the best of the bunch in your opinion? I haven't used any M, so it's out of curiosity.
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Old 11-23-2018   #137
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Erik, I agree that the M5 was a brilliant camera in design and build. I had one for a short while, but ergonomically it didn't work for me at all. The classic M bodies on the other hand, fit me like a glove.
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Old 11-23-2018   #138
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I voted M5. I believe that it is what the thread title says it is, :Most Maligned Leica M Model. But it doesn't in any way mean its bad.

It's got a ton of advantages over many M models. Just a few that I can think of
  • Taller body means bigger faster lenses have less viewfinder obstruction
  • shutter speed dial is ergonomically placed, shutter speeds show up in the viewfinder
  • The metering needle in the VF is a much more intuitive way to view your exposure (the arrows and dots of the M6+ is a joke. Poor way to evaluate a scene).
  • Bigger grip is good for those with bigger hands, you also get less accidental RF obstruction when focussing with gloves in the winter.
  • Precise framelines. The viewfinder is the last of its design (or so I've read). Leica changed the rangefinder/viewfinder in the M4P+ and shooting the M240 now I find the framelines to be way more inaccurate than the M5's. Something has to be said when a 40 year old M body outperforms one of Leica's latest offerings.
  • Framelines also don't share focal lengths so they are clean and not distracting to shoot with.
  • Side mounted lugs are good for carrying under a coat or carrying off to the side under an arm and out of snow or rain or for stealth.

I love my M5. I can't see myself shooting without it. When push came to shove between my M4 and my M5 the M5 was the one I kept and sold the M4. It's THAT good.

It's definitely function over form but I'm ok with it.
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Old 11-23-2018   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p.giannakis View Post
Hi Erik,

What makes the M5 the best of the bunch in your opinion?
- most precise framelines;
- shutter speed can be changed with one finger when looking through the viewfinder;
- stepless shutter speed dial;
- speeds indicated in finder;
- built in spotmeter, spot indicated in finder;
- highest quality of manufacture (best build quality of all the M's);
- best Leica M for making color slides (most precise lightmeter and calibrated shutter);
- most sensitive lightmeter.

All Leitz trained repair people from the generation of Ton Scherpenborg and Sherry Krauter will confirm this.

Erik.
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Old 11-23-2018   #140
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Only in the Leica world does the best camera lead in the "Most Maligned" poll by more than double the runner-up. And by more than 4 to 1 over the next-highest film camera.
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Old 11-23-2018   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deardorff38 View Post
Erik, I agree that the M5 was a brilliant camera in design and build. I had one for a short while, but ergonomically it didn't work for me at all. The classic M bodies on the other hand, fit me like a glove.
A couple of years ago I was thinking the same as you, but now I see that my best pictures are made with the M5.

O, yes, I love to go out with the Leicas III, M3 and M2, but the M5 just delivers more precision and more successful shots.

The M5 is designed as a camera that could take on cameras like the Nikon F2 and the Canon F1: the strengths of SLR cameras are also the strengths of the M5, where the M5 naturally has the advantage of lower weight and smaller and better lenses.

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Old 11-23-2018   #142
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Old 11-25-2018   #143
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What about the rangefinderless M1?
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Old 11-25-2018   #144
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What about the rangefinderless M1?
M1, MD, MD-2
These cameras had a distinct use..... with a microscope or telescope....or you could use them with a visoflex. They were purpose-built: scientific use. No reason to malign them.
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Old 12-01-2018   #145
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I have had M5, M8, M9. Also, I have play with a M2. My "best" goes for the M5... but I know, it isn't the camera for everybody, and I don't NEED it to be in that way.

Sometimes it seems there is people who needs to have the camera that is the best for everybody... or said in another way, they need that other say "Hey, your camera is the best one". Is it your case?

I don't understand this type/kind of threads...
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Old 12-01-2018   #146
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Some M5 fans then would say: "my hands are very large" ...
My hands are fairly large! And I did pretty well with my M5 this past summer. Maybe there is a connection.
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Old 12-05-2018   #147
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Which is the most maligned camera? The polls show that it is the M5. Which is the most advanced ergonomically and easiest to use? Well, again that argument could be for the M5.

I purchased my first Leica camera in 1974 when I decided to get rid of the Nikon F's and that I no longer wished to follow photojournalism as a career. I have owned the Leica CL, M3, M2 (several times), M4, M4-2, M4P, M6, M6TTL along with the M9 and now MP240. I had never shot with an M5 until two years ago when I purchased one from Sherry just for the hell of it. It is now my favorite film M followed closely by the M2 and M4.

Yes, it does not have the classic lines of an M film camera but neither does a Hasselblad or Nikon F. The M5 was in development for over a decade and would have had the same effect on rangefinders as the M3 did on screw mount development. Unfortunatly, it was introduced about the same time that SLR's were taking over 35mm photography which consigned Leica cameras to a niche which is where they are still located today.
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Old 12-26-2018   #148
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The M5 is the 'most maligned' -- but it doesn't follow that it is the one I hate the most. In fact, I don't hate any Leica. I love my M5 -- it is quite the picture taking machine. Wonderful ergonomics, possibly the best finder in the optical M line-up etc. etc.
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Old 12-26-2018   #149
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Well, aside from all the lenses (and the aqueduct and the sanitation and...)
“PEOPLE’S front.”
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Old 12-26-2018   #150
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And the least? Look at the bar graph. My trusty M2. (Love my M5 too.)
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Old 12-26-2018   #151
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The worst is the MDa: no viewfinder!

Erik.
My MDa, along with my 1F, are the only film Leicas I've owned that have never had rangefinder drift...
Fantastic, superbly durable cameras for wide angle lenses and zone focus shooting. They also happen to be the absolutely cheapest Leicas to service.
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Old 12-27-2018   #152
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I wonder the m3 got 11 votes - pure blasphemy
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Old 12-27-2018   #153
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And the least? Look at the bar graph. My trusty M2. (Love my M5 too.)





The M5 has much better ergonomics than the "classic" shape that Leica cannot change because the cult won´t allow. The batteries conundrum though is too much hastle. Either give me a modern rechargeable battery or leave it alone. Vintage battery technology? Oy.

Otoh I cringe at the Leica MP and MA w/ their bad rewind knob. It´s a reenactment design keeping bad technology just for the nostalgia vibe. It is stupid.
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Old 12-27-2018   #154
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The M5 has much better ergonomics than the "classic" shape that Leica cannot change because the cult won´t allow. The batteries conundrum though is too much hastle. Either give me a modern rechargeable battery or leave it alone. Vintage battery technology? Oy.
Any decent camera tech can adjust the meter on the M5 to use modern batteries. Had mine done.
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Old 12-27-2018   #155
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Any decent camera tech can adjust the meter on the M5 to use modern batteries. Had mine done.

Otoh shooting w/ an external meter can be interesting in a good kind of way.
Strolling around looking for pictures? first thing: measure the light then adjust the camera.. Once the opportunity arises, you place the VF against your eye to focus and shoot. NO more fiddling w/ exposure.

It´s sharp... and you never worry again about leaking batteries destroying your camera.
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Old 12-31-2018   #156
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We all know what is going to happen here..haha! MP,M3, or M4 best, and M5 most hated !
What's the point? I still love my M5
We all knew, but I for one didn't expect such a rout. At this point right around half the votes went to the M5.
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Old 12-31-2018   #157
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- most precise framelines;
- shutter speed can be changed with one finger when looking through the viewfinder;
- stepless shutter speed dial;
- speeds indicated in finder;
- built in spotmeter, spot indicated in finder;
- highest quality of manufacture (best build quality of all the M's);
- best Leica M for making color slides (most precise lightmeter and calibrated shutter);
- most sensitive lightmeter.

All Leitz trained repair people from the generation of Ton Scherpenborg and Sherry Krauter will confirm this.

Erik.
Wow - sound great! I would love a built in spot meter. But somewhere I read that M5 is the most difficult to repair - and of course there is the handling issue.
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