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Lens Lineup Rationalization on M8 (75/90)
Old 01-27-2007   #1
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Lens Lineup Rationalization on M8 (75/90)

Previously I have shot M5, M6ttl, & M7 film bodies. I liked the M5 the best because for the clean VF with just 35, 50, 90 frame lines. I currently only have the M5 for film bodies.

My lens line up is 28 Cron ASPH, 35 Lux ASPH, 50 Lux ASPH, 75 Cron, & 28/35/50 Tri-elmar.

I wear glasses so the 28 never worked well for me on film, as I had trouble with the VF. The 28 is a recent add for the M8. I also never really mastered or enjoyed wide angles of 28 or less.

My previous go to lens was the 50 unless I new the majority was going to be in tight quarters, and then the 35 would go. It was rare when I would actually have both the 35 and 50 with me at the same time.

Once again, I am finding that I don't use the 28 (37) and 35 (46) lengths on the M8 at the same time.

The 50 Lux ASPH is a favorite still and I think even more enjoyable at (66), giving me a little more distance from the 28 (37). I now find that the 28 & 50 are a common pair with me leaving the 35 basically unused except with film.

My dilema is with the 75. I have never been happy with the mixed 50 & 75 frame lines cluttering up the VF. The 50 (66) seems to be taking the place of the 75. 90 on film was never a go to length for me, as I always seemed to need a little more if I went telephoto. I am also really bothered by the inaccurate frame line in the long direction for the 75 in the M8 finder.

The 90 (120) frame line is much cleaner for me on the M8. The size and weight difference aren't really an issue compared to the 75 cron.

What I'm thinking about is getting the 90 cron for portraits and longer event type work, which would then cause me to sell the 75 cron.

The 28 (37) & 50 (66) decision has already worked itself out. My struggle is now what to do on the longer end.

Do I stay with the 75 (100) cron, which is a litte too sharp/contrasty at times for my use and at other times just perfect? Do I consider the 75 Lux, which seems a little too soft for my taste wide open, based on the other threads that I have been watcing? Do I go with the 90 (120) cron?

Thanks for reading this long and rambling question.

Could someone help me with various photos from the 90 Cron at various apertures and subjects when used on the M8?

Ray
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Old 01-27-2007   #2
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Not the answer to your concern but still DAG can remove any frame lines needed on any M camera I guess, they removed from my M7 all the extra lines living 28,35,50 well on 0.57
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Old 01-27-2007   #3
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Nachkebia,
Does this mean you have given up on the Ikon or if not are you still using it?

Ted
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Old 01-27-2007   #4
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I use them together, I put slow film in M7 and I put medium speed in in Zeiss ikon, one with 50 lux one with wide angle 25 biogon or 28 elmarit, anyhow I need to send zeiss ikon for fixage also need to update viewfinder of my M7 to MP finder at dag
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Old 01-27-2007   #5
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Nach - Yes, I know about Don or others basically blacking out some of the lines in the VF. I really would like to eliminate the 24 & 75 lines from my M8 finder. However, I think it is way too early to let someone into the M8 which would void the warranty.

Ted - check your PMs.

Ray
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Old 01-27-2007   #6
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Nach - Yes, I know about Don or others basically blacking out some of the lines in the VF. I really would like to eliminate the 24 & 75 lines from my M8 finder. However, I think it is way too early to let someone into the M8 which would void the warranty.

Ted - check your PMs.

Ray
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Old 01-27-2007   #7
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Ray - You may want to send a PM to Gabriel M.A. He has an M8 and 90 Summicron (pre-APO version) and would be a good source for feedback.

btw - I picked up a R-D1 and the 50 asph works brilliantly on it.
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Old 01-27-2007   #8
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Hi Ray, got your PM. A-ha, a case of GAS? Honus, you ain't helping

I really recommend the 90 Summicron over the 75 Summicron. The DOF at the same distance from the 90 'cron is about the same as the 75 Summilux wide open, and certainly smaller and lighter (90 'cron version III -- I don't know if the Apo version is about the same size and weight or not)

OK, I don't have many samples with the 90 Summicron pre-Apo, and I've only got shots taken at f/2; here are a few taken with the M8 (and the only ones I have readily available):



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Old 01-27-2007   #9
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Gabriel,

Thanks for the photos. Yes, GAS has hit but hopefully in a swap out manner on this one.

I really liked the 75 cron on film, even with the frame line issue of being so close to the 50 lines. 90 always left me wanting a little more and was never a favorite of mine on film.

Now on the M8, the 75 seems like the odd man out at 100 and with the 50 acting as a 66. This 90 (120) is starting to look really good. ( I already have the 1.25x magnifier also.)

However, don't get me wrong in thinking that the 75 Cron is not a good lens. It is a truly wonderful lens that renders like the 50 Lux ASPH.

Best,

Ray
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The 75/2 ASP might be perfect for an M8
Old 01-28-2007   #10
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The 75/2 ASP might be perfect for an M8

Quote:
Originally Posted by harmsr
Now on the M8, the 75 seems like the odd man out at 100 and with the 50 acting as a 66. This 90 (120) is starting to look really good.
With respect, not sure I concur. My 75/2 ASPH seems like a perfect lens on my M8. It is a great equivalent length for portraits, it is fast/compact/sharp, and it has a larger rangefinder window view than a 90 lens. I think the 75/2 may be one of the best, if not the best, lens Leica makes. The platypus lens on the digital is the 50mm with its strange equivalent length.


To me the only problem is that the lens might be too sharp/contrasty for some subjects but using it with shallow depth of field more or less avoids that issue for portraits, etc.
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Old 01-28-2007   #11
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I agree with you, Stieglitz: the 75/2 ASPH may be one of the best Leica lenses.

The concern I have is the same one you stated.

Although I didn't elaborate when I stated it before, I compared shots taken with the 75 f/1.4 and the 90 f/2, and when the subject fills the frame the same way, the DOF rendition is virtually the same when no bright points of light are in the background. Given the "farther" reach of a 90mm lens over a 75mm lens, I think it's a good idea to have a 90mm lens over the 75mm lens if when one's concern is about taking people shots. Given that the 90 Summicron is smaller, lighter, and cheaper than the 75 'lux, I obviously went the 90 'cron way. That's why I didn't even consider the 75 'cron (given the DOF part).

I don't think anybody here is saying that the 90mm Summicron is better optically than any of the Leica 75mm lenses. What's at issue here are more mundane, personal concerns. And monetary, I think.

BTW, I found a so-so article here that may help you slightly, Ray:

http://www.shutterbug.com/equipmentr...ca/index1.html
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Old 01-28-2007   #12
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Dear Ray
I actually am using the 90mm 2.8 Elmarit in my M8. I was planning to ditch this one but have been suprised at how well it works. The extra .8 of a stop compared to the summicron is not such a big deal as the M8 has far superior higher ISO performance to my film MP. The ballance of the new 90 'cron aspherical is certainly not as nice as the elmarit. I suppose it really boils down to what you re using it for. I use my 90 for tight portrait shots and to be honest its even better at 120mm. Composition is not a problem for me if just a face portrait. needless to say there are plenty of these around at very resonable prices. Enoy!
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Old 01-28-2007   #13
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Thanks for keeping the comments coming guys.

The 75 Cron is a GREAT lens, however at 100 MM on the M8 I just don't seem to be using it for the previous stated reasons.

On film, I never really used 90MM either.

However, 120mm for facial shots and longer event or reportage type work seems to be a very good option for me when used with the magnifier.

I have been playing with the M8 for about a week or so just composing with the 75 and 90 frame lines for this type of shot, and really seem to be favoring the 90.

My only real concern is that the 75 is such a great lens, what will I loose if anything when going to the 90? Then which 90 will work the best?

The 75 Lux and 50 Nocti are "Beasts" on the M cameras. The 75 Cron really balances well, which is fairly close to what the 90/2.8 should be. The 90/2.0 APO Cron is larger.

I am looking for something that has a narrow DOF when wide open and somewhere in between the 75 Cron and 75 Lux for sharpness and smoothness.

Ray
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Old 01-28-2007   #14
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Hi
Attached a pic with the 90 2.8 (sorry model recovering from chicken pox!)
I can say it works well. I know the ballance of the 90 Summicron ASPH is off a bit and the elmarit i think is said to be a bit sharper than the non aspherical 'cron.
Hope this helps.
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File Type: jpg Ben-pox.jpg (53.5 KB, 56 views)
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Trading 75lux for cron
Old 01-28-2007   #15
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Trading 75lux for cron

I own a 75 lux. I would say it is cosmetically a little used. The filter threads are a little banged up and since I don't have a 60mm filter I dont know if it will easily screw on or not. However, the glass is pristine, no marks or scratches.

I would like to trade this lens for a 75cron aspherical, and because of the poor cosmetic condition of my 75 lux, I am willing to pay up to $500 in addition for a mint and possibly coded 75 cron.

If anybody is interested in this trade, please contact me soon since i will be posting the lens on ebay soon.
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Old 01-29-2007   #16
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Old 01-29-2007   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BerndReini
I own a 75 lux. I would say it is cosmetically a little used. The filter threads are a little banged up and since I don't have a 60mm filter I dont know if it will easily screw on or not. However, the glass is pristine, no marks or scratches.

I would like to trade this lens for a 75cron aspherical, and because of the poor cosmetic condition of my 75 lux, I am willing to pay up to $500 in addition for a mint and possibly coded 75 cron.

If anybody is interested in this trade, please contact me soon since i will be posting the lens on ebay soon.
I fear the difference would be more like 1000$ than 500$.....
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Old 01-30-2007   #18
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I have or have had pretty much all the lenses discussed. I've shot with the M8 and 75/1.4 and 90 AA for a while last year and have to say I was much happier with the 75/1.4. I didn't have the 75/2 at the time, but got a used one to put on my M8 when it comes. The 75/1.4 gives wonderful images but is just a bit too big for general use. I imagine a common setup will be the 28/2 and 75/2, or 21, 40 and 75.

As mentioned, the 75/2 is sometimes a bit too sharp and clinical, but that can be fixed to a certain degree in PS. The bokeh is not as nice as that of the 75/1.4, but pretty much identical to that of the 90/2. The older 90/2 just before the AA isn't too bad a choice and is approximately the same weight and size as the AA, and has a lot better bokeh but certainly isn't as sharp wide open as the 75/1.4. The even earlier large 90/2 is even less sharp. Still, all the non-AA Summicrons can produce very pleasing pictures. It's just that if you're comparing the wide open performance of the 75/2 to any non-asph 90 or 75 you might be disappointed. Note that the 90/2 AA is not as good as the 75/2 at close focus although they're about the same at long distances, and none of the 90's focusses closer than 1m.

If you want something with the performance lying between the 75/1.4 and 75/2, the only choice is the 90/2.8 (current). It just doesn't open as wide.

Henning
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Old 01-30-2007   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harmsr
I am looking for something that has a narrow DOF when wide open and somewhere in between the 75 Cron and 75 Lux for sharpness and smoothness.
The 90mm Summicron pre-Apo (third version).

The 90mm Elmarit is a really nice lens. Do not confuse the Elmarit with the Tele-Elmarit. The first version Elmarit is wonderful for portraits, and when using color, the skin tones are wonderful; I'd say that at f/2.8 the Elmarit is better than the Summicron at f/2.8, *but* the issue is still the aperture speed.

If you don't mind the aperture speed, really, go with the 90 Elmarit (not the Tele-Elmarit), specially the first version. Otherwise, you're really describing the 90 Summicron pre-Apo. I like mine. I traded my black first version Elmarit (some would have a fit) for the 90 Summicron. I am happy with my decision.

Now, if only Zeiss would come up with the 85mm Sonnar f/2...that'd be another story. I love my Carl Zeiss Jenna 8.5cm f/2 Sonnar, but it's a little clunky to use, specially with the "backwards" focusing helical.
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Old 01-30-2007   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabriel M.A.
Now, if only Zeiss would come up with the 85mm Sonnar f/2...that'd be another story. I love my Carl Zeiss Jenna 8.5cm f/2 Sonnar, but it's a little clunky to use, specially with the "backwards" focusing helical.
They will soon, but it's expensive ...

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...ughType=search

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Old 01-30-2007   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferider
They will soon, but it's expensive ...

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...ughType=search

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Old 02-03-2007   #22
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Henning & Gabriel,

Thanks for the comments again, which have helped steer me. Doing the Flickr and google searches, etc... have helped in looking at these suggestions.

Considering the size issue, the desire to go with a 90, what I'm looking for in signature, it looks like that it will be the 90/2.8. For the uses I will have of the 90, I think 2.8 will work fine for speed.

Once again - thanks for the suggestions.

Best,

Ray
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Old 02-03-2007   #23
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Hmmm - seems I have the 90 elmarit and the 75 lux.

Here is a shot with the lux: http://www.flickr.com/photos/8597423...7594515158107/

I have a shot with the elmarit, however, my wife will not let me post it due to the "harsh light" which really is the sharpness and contrast of the lens. The 90 elmarit is not very flattering to aging skin.

Kitty relented so here are the links:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/379106530/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/379106213/
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Old 02-03-2007   #24
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I forget to thank Richard also for his photos from the 2.8.

Magus - I like how the 50 Cron renders so this 2.8 does seem to be my best option.

Thanks again.

Ray
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Old 04-07-2007   #25
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Exclamation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabriel M.A.
I really recommend the 90 Summicron over the 75 Summicron. The DOF at the same distance from the 90 'cron is about the same as the 75 Summilux wide open, and certainly smaller and lighter.
Yes, but the Summilux has is one stop faster. This implies a shorter exposition time or a lower ISO.
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Old 04-08-2007   #26
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Exclamation

Quote:
Originally Posted by harmsr
Do I stay with the 75 (100) cron, which is a litte too sharp/contrasty at times for my use and at other times just perfect? Do I consider the 75 Lux, which seems a little too soft for my taste wide open, based on the other threads that I have been watcing? Do I go with the 90 (120) cron?
I have the same problems deciding what lens will complement my 35mm Summilux ASPH.

The 90 Cron is discarted because it is difficult to focus at f/2 in the M8 without the magnifier.

I like the 75 Cron, but sometimes I need an extra stop (low light interiors). The supersharpness can be distracting. It is a very contrasty lens. I love microcontrast for small details, but macrocontrast sometimes bring problems in the highlights, in contrasty conditions.

The Lux have several shortcomings (size, weight, handling), and it is too soft wide open at short distances. This lens is discontinued, its price has increased a lot in the second-hand market and it is very difficult now to find one. I doubt Leica will present a new 75 Summilux. The Summicron costs almost 3,000 dollars, and it is like a 100mm f/2 (in terms of angle of view). The Summilux 50mm plays the role of the 75 Summilux on the M8.
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