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Old 07-13-2015   #1
jwicaksana
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Hello

Two months ago a good friend of mine got himself a Rollei 2.8E. He's been obsessed with 2.8 Rolleis for the longest time, and he was in a hurry when he bought his old 2.8B with Biometar taking lens. I got the feeling that he never bonded with that camera, preferring his trusty Bronica instead.

The same night he received the 2.8E Planar, he texted me and asked me to hold on to his 2.8B, feed it with film and keep it running. I don't need to tell you what my answer was, do I?

So the next morning he brought it and it has been spending time with me since.

[/url]

I made a video, I'd be honored if you'd take the time to see it 1080p on YouTube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDdszplM1kw
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Old 07-14-2015   #2
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Rollei's are great cameras. But this poor beast was ridden hard and put up wet too many times. The video seems a little creepy to me. JMHO.
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Old 07-14-2015   #3
John E Earley
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Very nice. Thanks.
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Old 07-14-2015   #4
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I liked the video, it is not creepy.
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Old 07-16-2015   #5
jwicaksana
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Quote:
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Rollei's are great cameras. But this poor beast was ridden hard and put up wet too many times. The video seems a little creepy to me. JMHO.
Thank you Sir! The shutter is soft and lovely nonetheless.

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Very nice. Thanks.
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I liked the video, it is not creepy.
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Your hooked ... The LOVE shows
Lovely video, Enjoy !!
Thank you for your kind words. Is there a way to put the video preview on the thread? I've done it on some other websites but haven't found it here.
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Old 07-16-2015   #6
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Nice video. Definitely moody, but certainly not creepy. I would have liked to have seen the video ended with some nice b&w prints made with the camera. But that might have caused a run on used Rollei's :-)
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Old 07-16-2015   #7
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I liked the music. Apart from that, I'd shoot a few rolls, particularly some relaxed portraits of people you like, and see the results. You can place the camera on a tripod, and it should not be too threatening, if you look at the WLF. Mind you, this version should still have almost circular diaphragm, so the bokeh ought to be nice. Please, remember to shade the taking lens - it looks like it has some cleaning marks. If you'll like what you see, the next step should be a cla and a new leather. Maybe you will need a new mirror, and will want a brighter screen too. This camera merits to live.
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Old 07-17-2015   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skopar steve View Post
Nice video. Definitely moody, but certainly not creepy. I would have liked to have seen the video ended with some nice b&w prints made with the camera. But that might have caused a run on used Rollei's :-)
Hello Steve, I have ran just one roll thru it, it was smooth and I liked it a lot. I will take it out again soon and have some of the results posted here. Thanks for stopping by!
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I liked the music. Apart from that, I'd shoot a few rolls, particularly some relaxed portraits of people you like, and see the results. You can place the camera on a tripod, and it should not be too threatening, if you look at the WLF. Mind you, this version should still have almost circular diaphragm, so the bokeh ought to be nice. Please, remember to shade the taking lens - it looks like it has some cleaning marks. If you'll like what you see, the next step should be a cla and a new leather. Maybe you will need a new mirror, and will want a brighter screen too. This camera merits to live.
Hi Marek, thanks for your suggestions! This comes to me CLA'd, so it's 85% mechanically sound, apart from scratches and counter that does not always reset to zero. It has a smooth 'schlick' sound to the shutter and the time sounds right. I am planning to keep the cosmetics rough, I like it like that.
Maybe if I can get rid of the old glue, I tried gasoline, thinner, acetone with little result. Any tip?
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Old 07-17-2015   #9
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That's a cool video.
Your battered Rollei opens up easier than mine (haha)

My favorite moment is when you shot the small window showing the aperture and shutter speed, for some reason that resonates with me using the Rollei the most.

It's definitely *not* creepy.
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Old 07-17-2015   #10
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You could also try alcohol, but if acetone did not make it I doubt you will be lucky. I would be tempted to put some vividly coloured skin on this one...
http://photo.net/minox-camera-forum/00IpO3
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Old 07-17-2015   #11
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The taking lens is rare these days, and the camera is special.
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Old 07-17-2015   #12
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http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rolleiflex-b...item2c9b579638
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Old 07-17-2015   #13
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The seller was too optimistic, to say the least. He relisted the camera a couple of times and lowered the price. From $3000 down to $1700 but got no bids. He should be happy if someone wants to pay one third of that. It's true that you don't see the Biometar that often, but the Planar and Xenotar are better lenses.
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Old 07-17-2015   #14
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I have several plana
r models.
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Old 07-19-2015   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowfox View Post
That's a cool video.
Your battered Rollei opens up easier than mine (haha)

My favorite moment is when you shot the small window showing the aperture and shutter speed, for some reason that resonates with me using the Rollei the most.

It's definitely *not* creepy.
Thanks Will! That is my favorite part as well, due to my ownership of Rolleicord, that is one of the nice things I found in the Flex.

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You could also try alcohol, but if acetone did not make it I doubt you will be lucky. I would be tempted to put some vividly coloured skin on this one...
http://photo.net/minox-camera-forum/00IpO3
Marek, you are right, alcohol did not do anything to the glue haha.
Do you know who sells the leather? I've tried cameraleather and aki-asahi with no results.

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The taking lens is rare these days, and the camera is special.
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The seller was too optimistic, to say the least. He relisted the camera a couple of times and lowered the price. From $3000 down to $1700 but got no bids. He should be happy if someone wants to pay one third of that. It's true that you don't see the Biometar that often, but the Planar and Xenotar are better lenses.
Raid, yes the Biometar is not as common as Planar or Xenotar, although I have not seen the actual character. I was under the impression that it was due to logistics reason that they changed to Xenotar. But I may be wrong.
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Old 07-27-2015   #16
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So after running some tests, I've found that this camera exposed only 9.5 frames on a 120 film. I loaded as instructed in the manual, also confirmed by a number of tutorials on the web. After the arrow meets the 'start' dot, I closed the back, film counter says '0' and a little more than 1 crank later, it shows '1' and it's ready to expose its first frame. Whereas it's actually the backing paper being exposed.

So I ran some more tests with the backing paper only, and I found out that the actual exposure is lagging 2 frames behind what the counter shows. For example the counter shows frame no. 5, I open the back and frame 3 is what's being visible.

What I ended up trying was, I reel the leader past the mark, I found that when the arrow reaches the top spool, and I add 3/4 a turn, then closed the back, it will show correct framing. I have not tried this with actual film tho. - See question no. 2 below please

My questions:
1. How many turns does it normally take from 0 to frame 1? On my Rolleicord it's a number of turns, like 3-4 full turns of the knob.
2. Will the camera behave differently if loaded with actual film? The tests were done with paper backing only.
3. Is this an issue with frame counter, or feeler bar? I can live with my workaround described above, but if I can get it fixed, all the better.

Thanks for reading and responding!
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Old 07-27-2015   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JPD View Post
The seller was too optimistic, to say the least. He relisted the camera a couple of times and lowered the price. From $3000 down to $1700 but got no bids. He should be happy if someone wants to pay one third of that. It's true that you don't see the Biometar that often, but the Planar and Xenotar are better lenses.
More information, please? Better: how, or, why?
Thanks.
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Old 08-12-2015   #18
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More information, please? Better: how, or, why?
Thanks.
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Hi Brett, my B has a leak from one corner. I observe that the back is not exactly straight. How important is it to have a straight back to ensure no light leak is happening? Thanks.
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Old 08-12-2015   #19
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I also read some references about flocking the internal chamber, most talk about Yashica Mats, but I wonder if Rolleis will benefit from said operation? I remember reading a comment from our own Dan Daniel on this subject in another forum. Maybe Dan can chime in on this?

I will post some sample images later.
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Old 08-17-2015   #20
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Hi Brett, my B has a leak from one corner. I observe that the back is not exactly straight. How important is it to have a straight back to ensure no light leak is happening? Thanks.
Hi,
It's surprising how few cameras now have really straight backs. The corners at the lower rear are always a giveaway. Even if the fit is good they will often not be perfectly even and tight around their radius like they were when new. Anyone who hasn't seen a really good one, might not appreciate just how excellent the original fit was. Now, having said all of that, a back that doesn't fit as perfectly as when new, will not necessarily leak light. They can be twisted a bit or dented underneath and still be light tight. But if they've been damaged badly enough (being dropped might well do that) then, sure, they could leak. Some models also had a strip of yarn along the hinge or catch ends. If yours doesn't look really bad, but these are not present, a couple of strips of black wool or felt glued in with a dab of contact adhesive might be the solution, if the corners you refer to are the 90 degree ones adjacent either end. On the other hand if you mean those where the back is pressed to shape at lower rear, these had no sealing aids and relied on the grooves in the back and camera rear to be an effective light trap. In which case only straightening the back to an acceptable fit (if possible) or replacement will provide a solution. Hope this makes sense.
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Old 08-17-2015   #21
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Hi,
It's surprising how few cameras now have really straight backs. The corners at the lower rear are always a giveaway. Even if the fit is good they will often not be perfectly even and tight around their radius like they were when new. Anyone who hasn't seen a really good one, might not appreciate just how excellent the original fit was. Now, having said all of that, a back that doesn't fit as perfectly as when new, will not necessarily leak light. They can be twisted a bit or dented underneath and still be light tight. But if they've been damaged badly enough (being dropped might well do that) then, sure, they could leak. Some models also had a strip of yarn along the hinge or catch ends. If yours doesn't look really bad, but these are not present, a couple of strips of black wool or felt glued in with a dab of contact adhesive might be the solution, if the corners you refer to are the 90 degree ones adjacent either end. On the other hand if you mean those where the back is pressed to shape at lower rear, these had no sealing aids and relied on the grooves in the back and camera rear to be an effective light trap. In which case only straightening the back to an acceptable fit (if possible) or replacement will provide a solution. Hope this makes sense.
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Hi Brett, judging by the looks, there is no massive dent from being dropped visible. Due to no leatherette covering being present, I am starting to think that one or two holes is leaking light to the chamber. About strips of yarn, it had one but looks really bad, I assume a result of previous repair. I cleaned it and put foam material from Aki Asahi, as follows:



As you can see on both sides I have foam, and along the groove I have installed strips of self adhesive foam, even with tissue paper as additional measure.

As noted before I will post sample images for reference, maybe you can tell me which part I should look at closer, in a separate post:

New thread on Repair Forum

Really really appreciate you taking the time to share your expertise and knowledge on this. Thanks Brett.
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Old 09-03-2015   #22
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Update, a friend of mine who has a camera shop and who also done repairs, agree to look at the situation. We sat down and assessed the camera, what needed to be done with it, and I have to wait 4 weeks minimum since he has complicated jobs lining up. He has some interesting bits for this camera as well so now I'll be patiently waiting for him to come thru with the job.

Wish me well, folks!
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Old 09-05-2015   #23
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My 2.8B with a 2.8A that belongs to the friend that is going to repair it.
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Old 09-05-2015   #24
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The seller was too optimistic, to say the least. He relisted the camera a couple of times and lowered the price. From $3000 down to $1700 but got no bids. He should be happy if someone wants to pay one third of that. It's true that you don't see the Biometar that often, but the Planar and Xenotar are better lenses.
The 2.8B is the rarest of all the major Rolleiflex models, with less than 2000 pieces made. Price reflects demand, and this comes mostly from collectors. It's as simple as that and has little to do with the types qualities as a device for making images.
But I'm still waiting, (with bated breath), for some hard details on what, exactly, makes the Biometar an inferior lens to the Planars and Xenotars. Not disagreeing with the above claims. In making them without any context or explanation, however the comment is fairly useless as anything other than a personal opinion. Is the Biometar less sharp? Inferior coatings? More prone to flare? What, precisely, makes the Planar or Xenotar better? Inquiring minds must know.
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Old 09-05-2015   #25
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That totes WAS super creepy! Put some clothes on that lady.
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Old 09-06-2015   #26
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Quote:
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The 2.8B is the rarest of all the major Rolleiflex models, with less than 2000 pieces made. Price reflects demand, and this comes mostly from collectors. It's as simple as that and has little to do with the types qualities as a device for making images.
But I'm still waiting, (with bated breath), for some hard details on what, exactly, makes the Biometar an inferior lens to the Planars and Xenotars. Not disagreeing with the above claims. In making them without any context or explanation, however the comment is fairly useless as anything other than a personal opinion. Is the Biometar less sharp? Inferior coatings? More prone to flare? What, precisely, makes the Planar or Xenotar better? Inquiring minds must know.
The Rollei Club website listed it as 1.250 produced, Brett.
Have you personally used or owned the B? I have the B and a close friend has an E, maybe we will run some tests. But the Biometar has scratches and who knows what else, but hopefully when both are calibrated and cleaned we should be able to see some kind of comparison.

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That totes WAS super creepy! Put some clothes on that lady.
��
I understand how you must have felt. Please accept my apologies
I've checked with Aki Asahi and they have the cover for B, I will make sure it functions well mechanically, then we'll find some leather jacket for her haha.
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Old 09-06-2015   #27
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The Rollei Club website listed it as 1.250 produced, Brett.
Have you personally used or owned the B? I have the B and a close friend has an E, maybe we will run some tests. But the Biometar has scratches and who knows what else, but hopefully when both are calibrated and cleaned we should be able to see some kind of comparison.


I understand how you must have felt. Please accept my apologies
I've checked with Aki Asahi and they have the cover for B, I will make sure it functions well mechanically, then we'll find some leather jacket for her haha.
No, I'm sorry to say I haven't. And at current prices that's unlikely to change. But I'm always keen to learn more about any Rollei twin lens model. Personally I can't recall ever reading anything online that claims that the Biometar is any better or worse than other five element lens types. But if other members have any insights about the topic based on their own experience, well, I am all ears.
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Old 09-07-2015   #28
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No, I'm sorry to say I haven't. And at current prices that's unlikely to change. But I'm always keen to learn more about any Rollei twin lens model. Personally I can't recall ever reading anything online that claims that the Biometar is any better or worse than other five element lens types. But if other members have any insights about the topic based on their own experience, well, I am all ears.
Cheers,
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Hi Brett, your remark about five element lens types made me remember this article over on photo.net, that, if indeed all Planar-equipped Rolleis are the 5 element type, will shine a little light on this matter:

From username Miha Steinbucher
Biometar is East German name for Planar. The lens is otherwise identical, 5 elements double Gauss. 80mm one was used in Rolleiflex 2,8B (Zeiss Oberkochen wasn't able to supply Planars), as a standard lens for Prakticasix/Pentaconsix series, and in various 35mm SLR mounts (Exakta, M42...). A 120mm one was also made.

First (widely available) generation Planar (the one still used by Rollei) and Biometar 2,8/80 are the same lens. It's a 5 element 4 groups design. Later Planars are 5, 6 or 7 element lenses, some more exotic ones feature even more elements. The Planar-Biometar name difference was a legal matter, not an optical design one.
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Old 09-07-2015   #29
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Like Marek said above, this still has the circular diaphragm blades, maybe 10 or 11 blades. The E that I'm holding on to, has only 5.
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Old 10-15-2015   #30
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It's been six weeks now and my Rollei is still sitting on his shelf..doesn't matter as long as he'll bring it back to tip top condition..
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Old 10-15-2015   #31
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Hi Brett, your remark about five element lens types made me remember this article over on photo.net, that, if indeed all Planar-equipped Rolleis are the 5 element type, will shine a little light on this matter:

From username Miha Steinbucher
Biometar is East German name for Planar. The lens is otherwise identical, 5 elements double Gauss. 80mm one was used in Rolleiflex 2,8B (Zeiss Oberkochen wasn't able to supply Planars), as a standard lens for Prakticasix/Pentaconsix series, and in various 35mm SLR mounts (Exakta, M42...). A 120mm one was also made.

First (widely available) generation Planar (the one still used by Rollei) and Biometar 2,8/80 are the same lens. It's a 5 element 4 groups design. Later Planars are 5, 6 or 7 element lenses, some more exotic ones feature even more elements. The Planar-Biometar name difference was a legal matter, not an optical design one.
Thanks for posting that. I was actually aware of it—the two versions of the lens (Biometar and Planar) being produced in Jena and Oberkochen respectively, I was hoping that the person who offered his wisdom about the deficient nature of the Biometar might tender some details about any shortcomings it ostensibly has. Not to denigrate the East German product in any way, but areas such as quality control, lens coatings and durability are just three examples of ways in which theoretically identical lenses may be different in use, or in how they age. As mentioned previously I have never read anything suggesting that in optical performance the Biometar was particularly better or worse than a Planar—but further sources of hard data are always welcome. Still waiting for that though.

I do have an 80mm f/2.8 Biometar myself. But it is not attached to a Rolleiflex, unfortunately, as it is in Praktina mount, (so it's still moderately rare). From the little I have used it to date it seems very good (I only got it a few months ago, and had to first make the Praktinas work well again). I've always fancied a 2.8B, probably out of curiosity and due to their rarity as much as any actual image making prowess they would have.
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Old 05-15-2016   #32
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Fellas, it's been a while. I hope you are well.
This past weekend I collected the Rollei - after eight months.
Work done includes: focus adjustment, shutter, transport mechanism, film counter CLA'd, back hinge installed (before it has no hinge so opening the back means removing it entirely)
It came back to me working smoothly, timer now works, I never checked it before for the fear of breaking something but now it's good to know the timer works. We test-feed it with some old rolls, auto start seems to kick in at the right time. I'm happy, if you ask me. ��
Now just need to do some test rolls.
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Old 05-15-2016   #33
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Hi,
I loved the video, and the love for these camera's are great. I purchased two now
a 3.5E and a 3.5F model II and either one goes out with me on a giving day to work,
I just love the look of the square format and the clarity of the pictures can be stunning
at times, enjoy yours.
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Old 05-16-2016   #34
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Thank you Range..I will go out and run some test rolls this weekend..we'll see
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Jonathan

MOXS Photography

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jwicaksana
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Old 05-16-2016   #35
Range-rover
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Join Date: May 2012
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That sounds Great, Enjoy!
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