DP Merrills Rising in Value?
Old 01-01-2016   #1
Samouraļ
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DP Merrills Rising in Value?

I've been looking around for a DP1 Merrill recently (as I have the other two already), and I've noticed that while this is the least impressive lens of the trio, its price has remained a full $999 on BHPhoto, while the DP1 Quattro has dropped to $699 (could be a temporary sale, I don't know). The DP2M and DP2Q are priced the same 699. And the DP3M is completely gone.

Even on Ebay, the DP1 Merrill is rare and selling for over $500 (which is more than I remember it going for around the time of the Quattro release). And the DP2 is sitting at around $500 itself. The DP3 is similarly highly priced. By rising in value, I mean the used market, they seem to have bounced back.

Are these cameras just that rare now? I do believe they have quite a bit more magic in them than the Quattros, but I find this surprising.
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Old 01-01-2016   #2
FrankS
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If true, then only until the next improved model comes along. Digital is not a mature technology.
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Old 01-01-2016   #3
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In a recent interview w/ CEO of Sigma he mentioned best current selling Quattro was the DP2q and that the dp0q was doing much better than expected.

The Merrill's are definitely still holding their own.. Not sure if Sigma is still making them or selling out the warehouse inventory. The look of the pre-Merrill vs merrill vs Quattro all have a different look... If the high Merrill price holds up, then people are definitely voting w/ their wallets. The sd1q seems to be a bit over due now.. Could be Sigma is having second thoughts about the Quattro line.

B&H has always adjusted their pricing to match w/ overstock. I expect once their overstock issue is eliminated, the quattros will sell at their normal price. I do agree that the Merrill price is unexpected.

Gary
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Old 01-01-2016   #4
Michael Markey
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UK prices from one dealer ... new and used.

http://www.ffordes.com/category/Digi...ompacts_/Sigma
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Old 01-01-2016   #5
ampguy
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The Merrill DP2 appears to have an instant rebate, at least in the US, good until 2/2016 through authorized dealers, this puts it at about 499 from say B&H.
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Old 01-01-2016   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Markey View Post
UK prices from one dealer ... new and used.

http://www.ffordes.com/category/Digi...ompacts_/Sigma
Take a look at BH and Ebay instead for a larger picture. I don't feel that those two used Dp2M copies represent anything significant as far as market forces, but in USD, they're sitting at $426 anyway, which is pretty close to being in line with what I noted.

I suppose the new Dp1 Merrill selling for $999 is the real shocker considering its age.

---

But it sure is curious that we haven't seen a Quattro SD camera. Hopefully Sigma will skip it altogether and launch the next SD camera with a new, 1:1:1 sensor design.
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Old 01-01-2016   #7
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The DP1M for $999 at B&H is probably an oversight - the Merrills have a devoted cult following (myself included), but are largely unknown even amongst the photographic community. They probably reset the listing at some point, then forgot to discount it from its original MSRP.

That said, the used market for Merrills is definitely much thinner than it used to be. This is likely due to the Quattros being so highly divisive - it's an entirely new category of camera rather than a Merrill replacement. With no new cameras in sight to satisfy Merrill devotees, I suspect many are snatching up older used ones instead.
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Well 2016 brought massive sale
Old 01-04-2016   #8
GaryLH
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Well 2016 brought massive sale

http://www.adorama.com/als.mvc/nspc/...ce=rflaid63773

As much as 300 bucks off the DP quattro series..

Gary
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Old 01-04-2016   #9
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I looked at recent finished ebay auctions (past two weeks or so) and the DP2 went for anywhere between $340 and $460. The DP1 $300 - $525.

I think you need a little patience and the same prices are still available.
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Old 01-04-2016   #10
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Yes, that little black brick has a cult following.
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Old 01-04-2016   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryLH View Post
http://www.adorama.com/als.mvc/nspc/...ce=rflaid63773

As much as 300 bucks off the DP quattro series..

Gary
Thanks for the heads up
B&H has them for the same price and the DP0 is in stock

I am seriously temped...
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Old 01-04-2016   #12
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Yep 699 is a good price. Should c a lot of dp0 go for that price. The Quattro definitely has more contrast compared to the Merrill though.

Let's c what happens next...back to traditional foveon design or will we c the sd1 Quattro or a Quattro w/ different HW?

Gary
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Old 01-04-2016   #13
xayraa33
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Those Quattros are so darn freakin' ugly.
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Old 01-10-2016   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xayraa33 View Post
Those Quattros are so darn freakin' ugly.
I think the DP2Q is really quite attractive, and definitely functionally designed. While traveling, I have gotten many interested/enthused commenters and curious onlookers due to the styling.

The only thing I find ugly is the use of glossy, black plastic on the lens barrel. Completely gaudy and non-functional.
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Old 01-10-2016   #15
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The styling of the camera.. I would say u either hate it or love it. I like the result I get and that's what counts for me. I actually maybe one of the few who ended liking the new grip. I hate the rubbery sd card door.

Just picked up a dp0 to go w/ my dp2 Quattro. Just couldn't resist the 699 sale price

Gary
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Old 01-10-2016   #16
btgc
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ugly...attractive...do you date your cameras?

to me, DP1 original one, with terrible screen, it's not for dark stadium sports shooters but it's camera I still like to use. I'm also not using bottle opener to brush teeth so no complains.
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Old 01-15-2016   #17
Michael Markey
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Just picked up a DP1 for £99 ($142)
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Old 01-15-2016   #18
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Just picked up a DP1 for £99 ($142)
Nice one Mike.
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Old 01-15-2016   #19
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Hi Paul

Well , as you know, I usually carry the 2 and the 3 together with a GRV in a small Billingham .

This gives me an alternative to the GRV when I don`t want speed or higher iso.
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Old 01-15-2016   #20
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ugly...attractive...do you date your cameras?
Yes, we walk around the city together as I push all the right buttons at the right time.
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Old 01-15-2016   #21
xayraa33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samouraļ View Post
I think the DP2Q is really quite attractive, and definitely functionally designed. While traveling, I have gotten many interested/enthused commenters and curious onlookers due to the styling.

The only thing I find ugly is the use of glossy, black plastic on the lens barrel. Completely gaudy and non-functional.
Any way you want to slice them, they are still ugly.

Sigma made a big mistake with that far-out design.
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Old 01-15-2016   #22
Samouraļ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xayraa33 View Post
Any way you want to slice them, they are still ugly.

Sigma made a big mistake with that far-out design.
I'd have preferred an update to the understated style of the previous DP cameras, but the Quattros are not hindered by their unconventional design (they handle surprisingly well).

I do find great irony in the Quattro design. Whereas the Merrills were understated, belying an amazingly special sensor design and image quality, the Quattros are peacocks, hiding the fact that its sensor design (and Foveon mission) is neutered and produces less special/impressive/unique files than the Merrills.
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Old 01-15-2016   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samouraļ View Post
I'd have preferred an update to the understated style of the previous DP cameras, but the Quattros are not hindered by their unconventional design (they handle surprisingly well).

I do find great irony in the Quattro design. Whereas the Merrills were understated, belying an amazingly special sensor design and image quality, the Quattros are peacocks, hiding the fact that its sensor design (and Foveon mission) is neutered and produces less special/impressive/unique files than the Merrills.
Quattros are still ugly no matter what sensor they have.
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Old 01-15-2016   #24
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In the tide of recent RFF-retro style influenced by Fuji, the DP/M little black bricks remind me of Zeiss Werra minimalism around the time the M3 came out.

Vive la difference, I say, and I'm glad there are camera designers who not only look beyond the Usual Suspect templates, but also trust there are enough of us who are ourselves handily adaptable for what further empowers our eyes and vision.

My Werra IV feels very much like my DP2M--though with a big bright VF/RF, yum!

Maybe Sigma will find a way to add one of these by their 4th-5th generation DP. Maybe they'll even figure a way to make the lens barrel as universally functional as the Werra's while reducing the number of button-assigned options and functions to an--ahem--artistic minimum.

When I want critical focus in funky light, I use a Hoodman rig and a similar Varavon rig (both screw into the tripod bushing) on my Merrills. I even screw in a pistol grip or monopod to that for handheld stability. But when they get home and take off their armor, they're just their adorable lil black brick selves again. Kind of like Mozart as a kid home from performance--he doesn't look like a prodigy when he's napping, does he? ;-)

Vive la difference.
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Old 01-15-2016   #25
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differences between Merrill and Quattro...
- more accurate color then Quattro w/ better more even tonal range
- really nice grayscale tonality in b&w mode than Quattro
- Quattro has more punchy colors right out of the box
- one stop better ISO then Merrill
- faster af then Merrill
- a superior jpg engine then Merrill
- 21:9 aspect ratio only on Quattro
- dp0 (21mm fov) only on Quattro - essentially a digital xpan w/ the 21:9 aspect ratio
- Merrill has more film like results especially in b&w mode. It is essentially as close to a Leica monochrome u are going to get w/o having a monochrome conversion done on a Bayer array camera

Gary
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Old 01-17-2016   #26
Samouraļ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryLH View Post
differences between Merrill and Quattro...
- more accurate color then Quattro w/ better more even tonal range
- really nice grayscale tonality in b&w mode than Quattro
- Quattro has more punchy colors right out of the box
- one stop better ISO then Merrill
- faster af then Merrill
- a superior jpg engine then Merrill
- 21:9 aspect ratio only on Quattro
- dp0 (21mm fov) only on Quattro - essentially a digital xpan w/ the 21:9 aspect ratio
- Merrill has more film like results especially in b&w mode. It is essentially as close to a Leica monochrome u are going to get w/o having a monochrome conversion done on a Bayer array camera

Gary
Do you think that the Quattros might have more than one stop on the Merrills, at least in practice. I'm shooting -1 to -1.7 ev most of the time to protect highlights. Whereas the Merrills need their shadows protected. So in certain situations, the difference in practical sensitivity can be pretty wide, even at the same ISO.

(I'm only shooting -1 to -1.7ev in very sunny, contrasty situations)
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Old 01-17-2016   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samouraļ View Post
Do you think that the Quattros might have more than one stop on the Merrills, at least in practice. I'm shooting -1 to -1.7 ev most of the time to protect highlights. Whereas the Merrills need their shadows protected. So in certain situations, the difference in practical sensitivity can be pretty wide, even at the same ISO.
High contrast I tend to set -1. Low contrast closer to -1/3..for jpg+raw files. If raw only, I tend to stay -1/3 all the time.

In terms of one stop..that appears to be the average. U can get by w/ maybe 1/3 stop more, but much after that u start seeing color shift. Depending on the situation, I have seen color shift appear sooner which is why 1 stop is a safer general rule of thumb. U could push it to 2 stops but u need to go the b&w.

Gary
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