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Nikon Historical Society -- hosted by the founding member Bob Rotoloni and members of the society. The NHS, based the US, has a worldwide membership. Our "Nikon Journal," published four times a year, concentrates on the history of Japanese photo equipment from the perspective of the Nikon Camera Company. The Nikon Journal often includes Nikon information not published anywhere else in the world. This forum provides an opportunity for conversation between collectors and users of classic film Nikons. See forum “stickies” for more information about the Society. If you are a serious Nikon Collector, you MUST be a NHS member. Join at http://www.nikonhistoricalsociety.com/!

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Old 07-30-2017   #81
Contarama
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Originally Posted by fireblade View Post
The thing is that all the tens of thousands that have the 600, 700 and 800 series will buy into the 850.
Nikon is Nikon, and it won't change.
Thousands of wedding togs and enthusiasts will buy it and Nikon is happy again.
......and on and on it goes.
Umm...digital photography one course in February of this year...20 students one teacher...19 Canons 1 Nikon plus teacher had a Nikon. Instructor and me both Nikon FX...all other students crop Canons. When asked about their choice of Canon nearly all responded by saying they had read on the net of Nikon cameras having a lot of problems. Not saying you are wrong by any stretch...I'm just saying.
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Old 07-31-2017   #82
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Remember when all those rumour sites suggested the DF would be a really cool manual camera with a real focusing screen and a digital sensor? And then it ended up being a fatter D600 with D4 sensor and plastic dials?

I wouldn't pay much attention to them until Nikon gives us the actual thing.
I agree completely Nikon management has no credibility. Except in areas where DSLRs provide unique advantages, management had made a habit of making one suicidal decision after another. This is very sad because management is woefully completely wasting their greatest assets - the company's engineering and manufacturing excellence.

To be complete, the Df is revolutionary (in the Nikon world) because it is atypically light. However, it is awkward to hold and handle.

Are you sure those twist-and-click dials are plastic?

The D4 has a digital sensor... and it's a very fine one.

The Df can natively mount AI lenses. There is even a finder mode that makes pre-AI lens use more convenient.

Nikon's lack of interest in implementing an improved manual focusing system remains a major dissatisfaction. For me, the Df was the last nail in the coffin. I was tired of being disappointed. Nikon's ideas (or more accurately lack of ideas) for manual focusing was a significant factor in my abandonment of the brand.

From 2008 -2010 I bought four Nikon DSLR bodies, three ultra-wide zoom lenses and two primes ... all new.

From 2010 until now I bought five Fujifilm bodies and nine XF lenses (8 primes and one zoom)... all new as well.

My disappointment when the Df appeared cost Nikon at least one customer.
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Old 07-31-2017   #83
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This is good to hear. I'm a Nikon fanboy want to see them pull out of their financial struggles.
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Old 07-31-2017   #84
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Originally Posted by fireblade View Post
The thing is that all the tens of thousands that have the 600, 700 and 800 series will buy into the 850.
Nikon is Nikon, and it won't change.
Thousands of wedding togs and enthusiasts will buy it and Nikon is happy again.
......and on and on it goes.
And hundreds of thousand Nikon fanboys will be disappointed the first day...order one on the second...and then claim that it is their dream camera on the third.
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Old 07-31-2017   #85
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Originally Posted by Contarama View Post
Umm...digital photography one course in February of this year...20 students one teacher...19 Canons 1 Nikon plus teacher had a Nikon. Instructor and me both Nikon FX...all other students crop Canons. When asked about their choice of Canon nearly all responded by saying they had read on the net of Nikon cameras having a lot of problems. Not saying you are wrong by any stretch...I'm just saying.

Canon when they went EOS had much better AF, Nikon has never caught up.

Professionals started out at newspapers, they then probably gotten a hold of canon gear because the AF was better. Then they probably didn't change after that because they were used to it.

CPS tiers are also much more friendly than NPS tiers. So this further makes pros want to stick with Canon.

So you have one generation of photographers who used Canon because of these two reasons. This current generation of photographers sees all the pros using Canon so of course they follow.

Nikon has slowly been dying ever since EOS was released.
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Old 07-31-2017   #86
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Canon service is pretty bad in Canada, according to former Canon shooters. They love NPS and how they deal with professionals. I'd also suggest that Canon's advantage in AF has long since evaporated and they're equal now.

I'm a lifelong Nikon user so take it for fwiw. Canon has rarely, imo, innovated with lenses and they only brought out a 200-400 after they realized how useful that range was. That this lens was also one of the most popular loaner lenses at the Beijing Olympics had some influence I'm guessing.

Canon has always lead in fast lenses (1.2) but they focus brutally slow and your margin of focus error was basically zilch. So 1.4 is fine enough for those who love to throw backgrounds oof.

When the 850 comes out, I'll get one for evaluation and probably end up with a couple.
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Old 07-31-2017   #87
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When the 850 comes out, I'll get one for evaluation and probably end up with a couple.
Why? What will the D850 do that your D800/D810 doesn't do.
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Old 07-31-2017   #88
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Canon service is pretty bad in Canada, according to former Canon shooters. They love NPS and how they deal with professionals. I'd also suggest that Canon's advantage in AF has long since evaporated and they're equal now.

I'm a lifelong Nikon user so take it for fwiw. Canon has rarely, imo, innovated with lenses and they only brought out a 200-400 after they realized how useful that range was. That this lens was also one of the most popular loaner lenses at the Beijing Olympics had some influence I'm guessing.

Canon has always lead in fast lenses (1.2) but they focus brutally slow and your margin of focus error was basically zilch. So 1.4 is fine enough for those who love to throw backgrounds oof.

When the 850 comes out, I'll get one for evaluation and probably end up with a couple.

CPS tiers are much lower than NPS.

AF is much better still to this day with Canon. Just look at professionals where they need it. Any big sporting event, and you will see the majority of the pros will have red rings as opposed to gold ones.

I am a Nikon shooter, but I know the truth.

One of the greatest things about Nikon is also one of it's greatest weaknesses. The F mount.

Canon made the EOS mount with AF in mind. That is why it is better. Nikon stayed true to the F mount which made pros at the time happy, but ultimately they had to play catch up when AF was just so useful as a tool for professionals.
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Old 07-31-2017   #89
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Why? What will the D850 do that your D800/D810 doesn't do.
don't have an 810. pair of D4s and a D750.

D750 not as rugged as 810 series and if the 850 has the articulating screen, then the D750 becomes redundant. That was the feature that swung me from the D810 to the D750. Extremely useful for video, low angle work and hail marys situations.

The wifi on the D750 was also invaluable for getting photos out quickly. If the new 850 has wifi, extra bonus points.

I'm due for upgrades next year so looking to get a pair of D850s and one D5.
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Old 07-31-2017   #90
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AF is much better still to this day with Canon. Just look at professionals where they need it. Any big sporting event, and you will see the majority of the pros will have red rings as opposed to gold ones.
.
That Nikon only has one NPS service and people can't buy into the club is great as it eases pressure on service staff and loaner gear. That was one gripe I heard from CPS members.

Also, afaik, Sports Illustrated still uses Nikon, at least they did at the last Olympics I covered when I last worked beside them. Good enough for them...

In the scheme of things, sports photography is not the biggest user base imo and most working photojournalists aren't clamoring for super fast AF as most will back button and fine tune manually. ymmv Dynamic range is what many want.
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Old 07-31-2017   #91
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Originally Posted by willie_901 View Post
I agree completely Nikon management has no credibility. Except in areas where DSLRs provide unique advantages, management had made a habit of making one suicidal decision after another. This is very sad because management is woefully completely wasting their greatest assets - the company's engineering and manufacturing excellence.

To be complete, the Df is revolutionary (in the Nikon world) because it is atypically light. However, it is awkward to hold and handle.

Are you sure those twist-and-click dials are plastic?

The D4 has a digital sensor... and it's a very fine one.

The Df can natively mount AI lenses. There is even a finder mode that makes pre-AI lens use more convenient.

Nikon's lack of interest in implementing an improved manual focusing system remains a major dissatisfaction. For me, the Df was the last nail in the coffin. I was tired of being disappointed. Nikon's ideas (or more accurately lack of ideas) for manual focusing was a significant factor in my abandonment of the brand.

From 2008 -2010 I bought four Nikon DSLR bodies, three ultra-wide zoom lenses and two primes ... all new.

From 2010 until now I bought five Fujifilm bodies and nine XF lenses (8 primes and one zoom)... all new as well.

My disappointment when the Df appeared cost Nikon at least one customer.
The dials on the DF are some sort of metal coating plastic. Just turn them and compare to, for example, a Nikon FM2. You can feel the difference.
Pretty much all of the decent Nikon DSLRs can mount AI lenses. I use them on my D750. The D750 has much more accurate manual focusing than the DF, which is ironic considering the DF is meant to be 'that' camera. The one thing the DF does is it is able (as you point out) to use non AI lenses. But of course in stop down mode.
If you need to use non AI lenses in a Nikon DSLR, then the DF would be the camera to get. Personally I would use an EVF camera w/ adapter for that purpose.

Anyway, back to the D850. If all it is is more megapixels and increased fps then that would be disappointing to me.
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Old 07-31-2017   #92
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I'm due for upgrades next year so looking to get a pair of D850s and one D5.
Due for upgrades next year. How do you make that determination?
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Old 07-31-2017   #93
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Due for upgrades next year. How do you make that determination?
Perhaps a tax situation where the gear is amortized/depreciated for work.
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Old 07-31-2017   #94
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Due for upgrades next year. How do you make that determination?
When gear has seen a long and useful life and repairs become more frequent. Also to turn over gear when it still has value. Long lenses are probably going to be replaced as well. Hoping Nikon aslo has a new 17-35 G lens coming out. I've been bugging them about that for a long time and they just nod their heads lol
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Old 07-31-2017   #95
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D850 specs believed to be accurate

46 MP
10 FPS
$3800+

hybrid finder not yet confirmed or disproven

think I am smelling some great D810 deals
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Old 07-31-2017   #96
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D850 specs believed to be accurate

46 MP
10 FPS
$3800+

hybrid finder not yet confirmed or disproven

think I am smelling some great D810 deals
Excellent condition D810s are already going for $1700-$1800.
If the 850 is ~$3800, I'm not sure if it would make used 810s drop that much more. $1500?
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Old 07-31-2017   #97
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If no hybrid finder...or a new mirrorless block with sensor size of at least DX...grand old Nikon will become a case study, right alongside Kodak, at MBA schools around the world. Victims of the same disease - paralyzing rigid mentality. Looks like a lethal affliction to me.
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Old 07-31-2017   #98
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Excellent condition D810s are already going for $1700-$1800.
If the 850 is ~$3800, I'm not sure if it would make used 810s drop that much more. $1500?
hard to say
but I can tell you
real world, the D800 is so much more DSLR than I really need

it makes me wonder how much the imaging can really be improved
without going to the larger format Fuji GFX or equivalent

in tests I was surprised how much better the GFX is for
high resolution product or museum shots
than the D810 or A7rII
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Old 07-31-2017   #99
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You hit the nail on the head...head bartender.

Fuji = Innovation

And...the more I think about it...Nikon is to late even with no mirror...Canon and all others are already ahead. Things move very quickly in the digital world...way different than the days of the F vs. RF.

If Nikon is done...those 3800 dollar bodies are going to be cheap. No one around to warranty or repair them!
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