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Nikon Mirrorless Overdue about 3 years, the Nikon Mirrorless system finally arrived in 2018!

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Nikon announces full-frame mirrorless camera
Old 07-26-2018   #1
p.giannakis
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Nikon announces full-frame mirrorless camera

More info here:
https://www.theverge.com/circuitbrea...stem-announced
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Old 07-26-2018   #2
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Nikon teaser video (link). Very large new mount called Z mount incompatible with prior Nikkor glass without proprietary Nikon adapter. Likely very fast glass to follow.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZldXR313k4M
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Old 07-26-2018   #3
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the prism has a bumpy nose like a garibaldi, the state fish of california.

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Old 07-26-2018   #4
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^ I thought the exact same thing... made that connection immediately. Perhaps the designer used the Garibaldi for inspiration?
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Old 07-26-2018   #5
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Finally! Great news
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Old 07-26-2018   #6
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That mount looks enormous. Like it could take a medium-format sensor. I hear just 2FX and 2DX are planned - but Nikon medium format would be amazing.
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Old 07-26-2018   #7
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I`m not that intrigued. I guess what I originally liked about mirrorless is that they used to be....or were closer to classic RF cameras than DSLRs (Leica X, Fuji X100, XE XPro). Now we are getting too many DSLR shaped mirrorless cameras that are just a little smaller and without a mirror. Thankfully, Fuji and Leica still make some small(ish) soap bar / rangefinder shaped bodies. If there is one thing that has stuck with me from my RF days is that I like small prime lenses and tend to stick with 28-85mm as my comfort zone. It seems that huge super wides and super long lenses will ensure that most of these new cameras will be dslr shaped with big grips and new school controls.
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Old 07-26-2018   #8
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Originally Posted by jsrockit View Post
I`m not that intrigued. I guess what I originally liked about mirrorless is that they used to be....or were closer to classic RF cameras than DSLRs (Leica X, Fuji X100, XE XPro). Now we are getting too many DSLR shaped mirrorless cameras that are just a little smaller and without a mirror. Thankfully, Fuji and Leica still make some small(ish) soap bar / rangefinder shaped bodies. If there is one thing that has stuck with me from my RF days is that I like small prime lenses and tend to stick with 28-85mm as my comfort zone. It seems that huge super wides and super long lenses will ensure that most of these new cameras will be dslr shaped with big grips and new school controls.
I think that the only non Leica ones that had a 'full frame' sensor were/are the Sony A7/9 series. All those Fujis etc are crop sensor cameras.
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Old 07-26-2018   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsrockit View Post
I`m not that intrigued. I guess what I originally liked about mirrorless is that they used to be....or were closer to classic RF cameras than DSLRs (Leica X, Fuji X100, XE XPro). Now we are getting too many DSLR shaped mirrorless cameras that are just a little smaller and without a mirror. Thankfully, Fuji and Leica still make some small(ish) soap bar / rangefinder shaped bodies. If there is one thing that has stuck with me from my RF days is that I like small prime lenses and tend to stick with 28-85mm as my comfort zone. It seems that huge super wides and super long lenses will ensure that most of these new cameras will be dslr shaped with big grips and new school controls.
Olympus makes a tiny RF shaped mirrorless body, the digital Pen-F. They also make some tiny prime lenses for it, as does Panasonic. The Pen-F is a Micro Four Thirds camera.

I have been shooting with a Pen-F for several months now and I love it. The PanaLeica 15mm f1.7 (30mm), the Olympus 25mm f1.8 (50mm), and the Olympus 45mm f1.8 (90mm) are incredibly sharp and inexpensive lenses.
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Old 07-26-2018   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsrockit View Post
I`m not that intrigued. I guess what I originally liked about mirrorless is that they used to be....or were closer to classic RF cameras than DSLRs (Leica X, Fuji X100, XE XPro). Now we are getting too many DSLR shaped mirrorless cameras that are just a little smaller and without a mirror. Thankfully, Fuji and Leica still make some small(ish) soap bar / rangefinder shaped bodies. If there is one thing that has stuck with me from my RF days is that I like small prime lenses and tend to stick with 28-85mm as my comfort zone. It seems that huge super wides and super long lenses will ensure that most of these new cameras will be dslr shaped with big grips and new school controls.
I thought I was the only one. I really dislike the slr look of some mirrorless
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Old 07-26-2018   #11
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Nikon teaser video (link). Very large new mount called Z mount incompatible with prior Nikkor glass without proprietary Nikon adapter. Likely very fast glass to follow.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZldXR313k4M
As long as they have that adapter.. Leica had to use a non M mount when they introduced the SL.

But then again, I can use my Nikon glass with any other mirrorless cameras using an adapter already. I even use them on my Leica M!

The big question - wazzup with their sensor cover thickness? Will it be thick like on Sonys, or thin so I can use my Leica glass?
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Old 07-26-2018   #12
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I thought I was the only one. I really dislike the slr look of some mirrorless

You are not the only one.
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Old 07-26-2018   #13
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I am sure a few independent manufacturers will make adaptors to use M mount lenses on that Giuseppe Garibaldi looking bumpy nose camera.
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Old 07-26-2018   #14
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Too little..too late..
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Old 07-26-2018   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriscrawfordphoto View Post
Olympus makes a tiny RF shaped mirrorless body, the digital Pen-F. They also make some tiny prime lenses for it, as does Panasonic. The Pen-F is a Micro Four Thirds camera.

I have been shooting with a Pen-F for several months now and I love it. The PanaLeica 15mm f1.7 (30mm), the Olympus 25mm f1.8 (50mm), and the Olympus 45mm f1.8 (90mm) are incredibly sharp and inexpensive lenses.
True Chris. Not a fan of the 4:3 aspect ratio, but it is a nice camera.
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Old 07-26-2018   #16
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Originally Posted by johnwolf View Post
Same for me. But if you're trying to make money, which model would you follow - X-Pro or A7 series? Sony recently surpassed Nikon in FF ILC maket share. The DSLR design isn't for me either, but I know we here at RFF are a tiny minority.
Point taken when it comes to business, but what I prefer is a company like Fuji or Leica... have your passion cameras and have your bread and butter cameras.
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Old 07-26-2018   #17
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Too little..too late..
Somehow I don't think so... many Nikon fans waiting for this, even if we do not care.
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Old 07-26-2018   #18
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I'm looking at that lens hood, and thinking it's a 15-85mm zoom. What with all the stuff they expect the lens to do now days, it's no wonder the thing has grown in girth. No word on if the camera has built-in vibration reduction for using your old lenses. I suppose they could install that on the adapter, which means something else to bulk up the system.

I'll be waiting on the DX version that looks like an S2.

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Old 07-27-2018   #19
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What about Canon? Photokina 2018?
This Nikon is way overdue ( even though I don't like the slr design too) - are they going to drop the F mount in future or is there still a market for slrs... What do you think?
I still prefer a real optical finder.
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Old 07-27-2018   #20
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....- are they going to drop the F mount in future or is there still a market for slrs... What do you think?
I still prefer a real optical finder.
Nikon has been very clear on this in their press release of their new mirrorless:
The F-mount will stay. And Nikon will develop new DSLRs in the future. The Nikon customers will get both: DSLR and DSLM.

And Nikon is right with this strategy, because the DSLR market is much bigger than the DSLM market.

Cheers, Jan
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Old 07-27-2018   #21
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This is what Nikon will exploit. Nikon sat back, let Sony develop the market, and when the timinig is right, will come in with a better product. Timing is everything, boysans. This is why Nikon just celebrated its 101 anniversary:

"The Sigma CEO has been quoted as expressing grave concern for the narrowness of the FE mount diameter:

"…the diameter is very small and makes it difficult to design high quality FF lenses … it almost looks like E-mount was designed for APS-C more than FF.


(Little wonder Sigma and Tamron don’t want to spend money on R&D for FE mount lenses, leaving us stuck mostly with expensive options from Sony and Zeiss.)

We also know that a narrow mount diameter is a big no-no with IBIS."

IBM was not the first mainframe maker. They sat back, "took notes", waited to see if the mainframe market was real/mirage, , short-term/long-term. Then, when the time was right came in and dominated with a better product that exploited the weaknesses of its competitors.

There is no size advantage with mirrorless once you slap (the vast majority of) a lens on the camera. So no need to have a "who can be the smallest contest". There is an area to exploit with the Sony mount. Too small. Nikon exploited it. There is a weakness to exploit with battery life if you're willing to be sensible about camera size. Expect a camera with much better, DSLR-like battery life. The camera will likely have in-body stabilization that's better than Sony. Faster/better lenses, better battery life (in all likelihood), better in-body stabilization. Camera might top Sony in video (by virtue of newness...). Sony is married to its mount. They can't, rightfully, come out with a different wider mount now, can they? No. No, they can't.

I'd say that's game, set, match.

Although I am happy with the camera bodies I currently own and am not in the market, I will always support those companies that have served the the photographic community long-term, like Nikon has for 101 years...

... over an electronic gadget/entertainment conglomerate that drifts in and out of markets. I don't want the same company responsible for the Ghostbusters remake making my stinkin' camera. Samsung? Out of the camera market. Casio? Out of the camera market. Panasonic? Probably next. Sony? When times get tough, they're apt to bail me thinks. There's ample precedence for this. Nikon? They'll fight to survive or die trying.

They're a camera maker.

I'm on team Nikon.

https://petapixel.com/2016/04/04/son...fatal-mistake/
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Old 07-27-2018   #22
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Indeed some very interesting aspects in that review.

Some further additional information on Sony mirrorless issues by Thom Hogan:
https://www.sansmirror.com/cameras/c...ss-issues.html

Cheers, Jan
(have tested several mirrorless cameras, but none of them worked for me; I will stay with SLR / DSLR, which will save me thousands of bucks, too )
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Old 07-27-2018   #23
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Too little too late for this Nikon user. I am now firmly entrenched in the Fuji mirrorless camp.
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Old 07-27-2018   #24
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Too little too late for this Nikon user. I am now firmly entrenched in the Fuji mirrorless camp.
For you, perhaps. Does Fuji make a full frame camera? I'm firmly unentrenched in any format smaller than full frame now that there is ample supply of depreciated full frame cameras in great condition with lots of life left in them on the used market. And full frame cameras have technologically matured to where the increase in megapixels is not a factor.

Kinda like the home computing market. Nobody ooh'n and a ahhhin' over that increase in processor speed or adding a core or two like they used to. The 24MP in my current camera oughta do me I reckon for a long, long time. Possibly till it dies (or I do. Hopefully "it"...). 6MP -> 12MP big jump. I'll upgrade. 12->24 MP eh -- maybe I bite. 12 MP still pretty good though. What will that cost me? 24MP--> 36 (or 48 MP). Eh.
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Old 07-27-2018   #25
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Too little too late for this Nikon user. I am now firmly entrenched in the Fuji mirrorless camp.
I dumped all my Fuji stuff when they stopped making Acros. (I had planned to as soon as Nikon announced.) For digital, it's Nikon all the way for me. This cements it. No, it's not as pretty as my S2....
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Old 07-27-2018   #26
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This is what Nikon will exploit.
"The Sigma CEO has been quoted as expressing grave concern for the narrowness of the FE mount diameter:

"…the diameter is very small and makes it difficult to design high quality FF lenses … it almost looks like E-mount was designed for APS-C more than FF.


(Little wonder Sigma and Tamron don’t want to spend money on R&D for FE mount lenses, leaving us stuck mostly with expensive options from Sony and Zeiss.)

We also know that a narrow mount diameter is a big no-no with IBIS."

IBM was not the first mainframe maker. They sat back, "took notes", waited to see if the mainframe market was real/mirage, , short-term/long-term. Then, when the time was right came in and dominated with a better product that exploited the weaknesses of its competitors.

There is no size advantage with mirrorless once you slap (the vast majority of) a lens on the camera. So no need to have a "who can be the smallest contest". There is an area to exploit with the Sony mount. Too small. Nikon exploited it. There is a weakness to exploit with battery life if you're willing to be sensible about camera size. Expect a camera with much better, DSLR-like battery life. The camera will likely have in-body stabilization that's better than Sony. Faster/better lenses, better battery life (in all likelihood), better in-body stabilization. Camera might top Sony in video (by virtue of newness...). Sony is married to its mount. They can't, rightfully, come out with a different wider mount now, can they? No. No, they can’t.
/[/url]
This all seems about right, if my crystal ball is working. I have had Sony full frame interchangeable lens mirrorless bodies, and won’t likely ever be going back to them for those reasons and ergonomics (though the RX1RII on the other hand is one of the best realizations of the concept of a camera that I have ever owned).
If Nikon makes a real camera with this opportunity, as opposed to being influenced by whatever was going on in the heads of the marketing or engineering people behind the Key Mission series, that would be great.
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Old 07-27-2018   #27
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I wish Nikon well.

At the same time, I am deliriously happy using my X-Pro 2 and X100T.

While I can't imagine buying a Nikon camera, the potential for future sensors surface areas greater than 24 X 36mm is intriguing.

The Fujinon GF lenses enjoy an excellent reputation. Nikon can do just as well if they want to.
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Old 07-27-2018   #28
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I expect Nikon to make a mirrorless better than the competition.

Even if everything else was equal, Nikon's menu and flash systems would be enough for Sony owners to switch. Add to that a kazillion adaptable Nikon F lenses.

Things are looking up for Nikon.

Stephen
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Old 07-27-2018   #29
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I think that the only non Leica ones that had a 'full frame' sensor were/are the Sony A7/9 series. All those Fujis etc are crop sensor cameras.
Yes, I understand that... at this point in time, I really don't care for the APSC vs. FF battle. APSC is pretty damn good. I guess I don't really understand your point... FF dictates body shape?
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Old 07-27-2018   #30
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I expect Nikon to make a mirrorless better than the competition.

Even if everything else was equal, Nikon's menu and flash systems would be enough for Sony owners to switch. Add to that a kazillion adaptable Nikon F lenses.

Things are looking up for Nikon.

Stephen
As stated earlier. Their corp strategy was akin to IBM's entrance into the mainframe market. They hid in the bushes assessed the long-term viability of the market, as well as the strengths/weaknesses of their competitors offerings...

Is this a real market worth entering? Yes.
Is there a way to improve upon what's out there and leverage our existing custome base? Yes.
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Old 07-27-2018   #31
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Many years ago when I was only shooting film, I patiently waited for Nikon to produce a full-frame digital SLR. My wait was too long. I finally gave up and purchased Nikon APS-C digital SLRs.

I also patiently waited for Nikon to produce a mirrorless (APS-C or full-frame). Again, my wait was too long. I gave up and purchased Fuji APS-C digital mirrorless.

Now that my work flow has standardized around APS-C digital, I see no reason to change.
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Old 07-27-2018   #32
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I waited for other manufacturers to come out with a reasonably priced 50mm/1.8 (or so) with autofocus. Whoever got to marekt first with an affordable nifty-fifty was getting my business. Nikon came out with the $200 35/1.8 DX in '09. I plunked down my money and have shot Nikon ever since.

Samsung was supposed to introduce a 50 pancake around the same time for their NX system. If they beat Nikon to the US market I likely would have went with Samsung. I'm sure glad I went with the established camera company.
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Old 07-27-2018   #33
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First off head bartender I think the forum needs a new category.

What is this adapter like?

Cinema friendly?

Sensor made by? What does that sensor do different?
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Old 07-28-2018   #34
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I'm always happy to see new systems entering the market. Competition between brands has never been anything but good for the consumer. Whilst I'm not currently looking for a digital camera it's nice to know that if my preference changes I'll have more options to look at.
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Old 07-28-2018   #35
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I guess sensor made by Nikon, right? As far as I know Nikon doesn't use Sony sensors in their pro bodys anymore...
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Old 07-28-2018   #36
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I expect Nikon to make a mirrorless better than the competition.

Even if everything else was equal, Nikon's menu and flash systems would be enough for Sony owners to switch. Add to that a kazillion adaptable Nikon F lenses.

Things are looking up for Nikon.

Stephen
+1.
And the competition will be brutal in the coming years:
The sales peak in the mirrorless segment was already in 2012. Since then no real growth anymore.
With Nikon and Canon now fully entering this segment we have eight suppliers in this relative small market. So far the established mirrorless manufacturers have either made losses or only small profits in this segment. This situation will difinitely not improve for them with Nikon and Canon now as additional competitors.....
Interesting to see which manufacturer can survive this fight in the long run.....
I wouldn't be surprised if more brands have to follow Samsung in the future.
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Old 07-28-2018   #37
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I guess sensor made by Nikon, right? As far as I know Nikon doesn't use Sony sensors in their pro bodys anymore...
The sensors for the D5 and the D850 are both made by Sony. With digital photography the Software side is often more important to the iq than the Chip. I wish Nikon the best of luck a new mount isn't really the best idea though
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Old 07-28-2018   #38
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This is the future: Nikon and Canon are not rushing into an already crowded "niche" mirrorless market; by seriously committing the best of their resources to the new endeavor (they had to, as the new cameras will face imminent competition from the now formidable a7 cameras), they are turning their entire DSLR business with most of its existing customer base into the mirrorless. They will make the transition, the mirrorless market will dominate the scene, and DSLR will be dropped completely someday. Bodies like the a99 II will be released so those who got left behind could have a taste of the cutting edge, but no more lenses. No matter what Nikon says the D850 could very likely be digital F6 - the last of its kind.

Ditching the mirror box and saying goodbye to a 60-year heritage is a big thing - like SLRs taking over rangefinders, or the advent of autofocus. Only this time Nikon learnt to wait long enough that it's their customers actively calling for a new mount - and eventually getting what they asked for, so they did not "betray" F mount users like Canon once did to FD users. Almost cost them everything, but that's very Nikon-ish as well I'd say.
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Old 07-28-2018   #39
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The sensors for the D5 and the D850 are both made by Sony. With digital photography the Software side is often more important to the iq than the Chip. I wish Nikon the best of luck a new mount isn't really the best idea though

Nikon has their own in-house sensor design. There has recently been a long report / factory visit about that:
https://www.imaging-resource.com/new...sor-design-lab

The completely new mount (with additional adapter for F-mount lenses) is by far the best solution in the long run. Because you can develop up to the best specs.
And are not limited to the old F-mount, which is not well suited for the needs of mirrorless.
Nikon have fortunately learned from Canon: Canon was heavily critised in 1987 when they introduced the new EF mount. But it was a great success, and Canon so kept his market leader position for decades.

Cheers, Jan
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Old 07-28-2018   #40
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Originally Posted by Archlich View Post
This is the future: Nikon and Canon are not rushing into an already crowded "niche" mirrorless market; by seriously committing the best of their resources to the new endeavor (they had to, as the new cameras will face imminent competition from the now formidable a7 cameras), they are turning their entire DSLR business with most of its existing customer base into the mirrorless. They will make the transition, the mirrorless market will dominate the scene, and DSLR will be dropped completely someday. Bodies like the a99 II will be released so those who got left behind could have a taste of the cutting edge, but no more lenses. No matter what Nikon says the D850 could very likely be digital F6 - the last of its kind.

Ditching the mirror box and saying goodbye to a 60-year heritage is a big thing - like SLRs taking over rangefinders, or the advent of autofocus. Only this time Nikon learnt to wait long enough that it's their customers actively calling for a new mount - and eventually getting what they asked for, so they did not "betray" F mount users like Canon once did to FD users. Almost cost them everything, but that's very Nikon-ish as well I'd say.
I seriously doubt that the D850 will be Nikon's last professional DSLR. There is a massive installed base of F lenses, and there is no way that Nikon would stop selling bodies to willing consumers. Besides - dropping new DSLR bodies would only encourage existing clients to look at brands other than Nikon. Ain't gonna happen.
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