Go Back   Rangefinderforum.com > Cameras / Gear / Photography > Leicas and other Leica Mount Cameras > Canon Leica Screw Mount Film Rangefinders

Canon Leica Screw Mount Film Rangefinders For classic Leica Screw Mount Canon Rangefinders.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes

First roll through Canon P
Old 02-02-2019   #1
twvancamp
Thom
 
twvancamp's Avatar
 
twvancamp is offline
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 29
First roll through Canon P

I just scanned the first roll I've put through my new Canon P. I've been shooting with fixed lens rangefinders for a while, but this is my first proper RF and I wasn't super happy with the results.

There are several variables, and I am hoping to get others' opinions to see how I can get the most out of this camera.

I got a few good shots, but most came out like these.

Possible issues I can think of are:
- my own exposure. This is my first time shooting without a dedicated meter and I may have just been way off.
- the lens. Body came with a pretty beat up Elmar 9cm f3.5 that might have some issues. Could this lead to the haze in the center of some of these?
- issue with camera. Mechanics seem good but maybe there is something off with the shutter. Or light seals?
- some combination of the above, or something else entirely.

Appreciate any thoughts. I've seen great images come from this camera so I am hoping it is something I can learn to work with!
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-02-2019   #2
lukx
Registered User
 
lukx is offline
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 29
I think there is either light leaking into your camera or the shutter curtains are not synchronized very well. My bet is on the body.
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-02-2019   #3
ajtruhan
Registered User
 
ajtruhan is offline
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 95
Tape up the whole thing then shoot a few shots, remove some tape, shoot more, etc.
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-02-2019   #4
twvancamp
Thom
 
twvancamp's Avatar
 
twvancamp is offline
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 29
Thanks for the replies. I did the rough shutter test with that app that checks the speed. Not sure how accurate that is, but it suggested all the speeds were at least a few stops off.

If it is light leak, where would it be coming in? The door hinge? Doesn't seem like it has seals (like a modern SLR or something would).
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-02-2019   #5
wwfloyd
Registered User
 
wwfloyd's Avatar
 
wwfloyd is offline
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 96
That consistently hazy center reminds me of something I've seen a few times on digital SLRs. Some lenses that were developed before digital, paired with early sensors, could pick up reflection off the sensor, reflected back to the rear element, and back to the sensor. This came up when I would occasionally get that effect with 70-200mm f4L on the Canon D2000 (Kodak DCS520), at some zoom and aperture combo.

With that in mind maybe it's a coating issue on the rear element, or, the lens, generally. Or... some funky film stock that's highly reflective?
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-02-2019   #6
ajtruhan
Registered User
 
ajtruhan is offline
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by wwfloyd View Post
That consistently hazy center reminds me of something I've seen a few times on digital SLRs. Some lenses that were developed before digital, paired with early sensors, could pick up reflection off the sensor, reflected back to the rear element, and back to the sensor. This came up when I would occasionally get that effect with 70-200mm f4L on the Canon D2000 (Kodak DCS520), at some zoom and aperture combo.

With that in mind maybe it's a coating issue on the rear element, or, the lens, generally. Or... some funky film stock that's highly reflective?
The “round” artifact in the center is one thing- there’s also a vertical line on the right side of some. Probably all the same problem but maybe two unrelated issues?
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-02-2019   #7
retinax
Registered User
 
retinax is offline
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 824
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajtruhan View Post
The “round” artifact in the center is one thing- there’s also a vertical line on the right side of some. Probably all the same problem but maybe two unrelated issues?

Yes, the line on the edge looks like a "normal" light leak, something to be expected in old cameras, you'll need to renew the door light seals.

The flare in the center looks like it is caused by the lens. Does it have haze? If yes, return it if you weren't told, unless you got a very good price and want to risk it. It can be clean-able or not.

anyway, how were they scanned? Might the scanning method have induced the flare? Please post pictures of the negatives taken with a digital camera/phone.
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-02-2019   #8
twvancamp
Thom
 
twvancamp's Avatar
 
twvancamp is offline
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by retinax View Post
Yes, the line on the edge looks like a "normal" light leak, something to be expected in old cameras, you'll need to renew the door light seals.

The flare in the center looks like it is caused by the lens. Does it have haze? If yes, return it if you weren't told, unless you got a very good price and want to risk it. It can be clean-able or not.

anyway, how were they scanned? Might the scanning method have induced the flare? Please post pictures of the negatives taken with a digital camera/phone.
I'm starting to feel like it's a combo of a lens issue and shutter/light seals on the body.

I got a good enough deal I'm not worried about the lens, as I wasn't planning to keep it anyway. But it's made me more wary of the lenses I'm looking at online. This one looks fine to the eye, but it must have some issues.

I scan on an epson v600. I'm no genius at it but have scanned this same film stock countless times and never had issues like this.

Sending body off for CLA and asking them to check shutter speed, light seals, etc. Hoping that and a new lens gets me on the right track.

All that said, if anyone has a 35 or 50mm LTM lens they aren't using let me know! Aiming for something in good shape under $250. Has been harder to find than I'd anticipated. And thanks again for the thoughts. Have learned so much in this forum.
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-02-2019   #9
ajtruhan
Registered User
 
ajtruhan is offline
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 95
For the lens check out sheuido on eBay. I got a “light cleaning marks” canon 50 1.8 for around $120. I can’t see any marks.

Also could it be partially development? I found I was rushing fixer and wash and I’d get whitish artifacts not exactly but someways similar to what you have.
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-02-2019   #10
nzeeman
Registered User
 
nzeeman's Avatar
 
nzeeman is offline
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: belgrade
Age: 39
Posts: 1,192
both leaks are from the front-they would be orange is from back side.. vertical one is on the right side so probably second curtain jams for a moment before fully finishing its trip and lead to overexposure... and center one -could be some internal reflection maybe -is anything scratched inside camera chamber or some scratches on lens barel inside?
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-02-2019   #11
nzeeman
Registered User
 
nzeeman's Avatar
 
nzeeman is offline
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: belgrade
Age: 39
Posts: 1,192
Quote:
Originally Posted by twvancamp View Post
All that said, if anyone has a 35 or 50mm LTM lens they aren't using let me know! Aiming for something in good shape under $250. Has been harder to find than I'd anticipated. And thanks again for the thoughts. Have learned so much in this forum.
i have many russian lenses if you need-industar 22, industar 61, jupiter 8 and jupiter 12 but silver version-i dont know if it fits canon p-i can try on mine ...
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-02-2019   #12
twvancamp
Thom
 
twvancamp's Avatar
 
twvancamp is offline
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 29
Quote:
For the lens check out sheuido on eBay. I got a “light cleaning marks” canon 50 1.8 for around $120. I can’t see any marks.
Thanks for the tip, they've got a lot of clean looking options!
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-02-2019   #13
twvancamp
Thom
 
twvancamp's Avatar
 
twvancamp is offline
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by nzeeman View Post
both leaks are from the front-they would be orange is from back side.. vertical one is on the right side so probably second curtain jams for a moment before fully finishing its trip and lead to overexposure... and center one -could be some internal reflection maybe -is anything scratched inside camera chamber or some scratches on lens barel inside?
Wow I never knew that about the different colors. I think it must be a curtain issue. There's a bad sound when you advance the film so maybe the whole system needs cleaned out. Inside of chamber looks clean.

The lens, I'm not sure. It looks relatively clean to my eye but I might be missing something.
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-02-2019   #14
twvancamp
Thom
 
twvancamp's Avatar
 
twvancamp is offline
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by nzeeman View Post
i have many russian lenses if you need-industar 22, industar 61, jupiter 8 and jupiter 12 but silver version-i dont know if it fits canon p-i can try on mine ...
Thanks for the offer. I had been looking at Jupiter 8's but got mixed feedback on whether the older version would work on the P. Plus how do you feel they stack up to a Canon 1.4?

My goal was to get one really strong lens and just make this my everyday camera. So I'm happy to pay more for the Canon if the results are noticeably above the Jupiter.
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-02-2019   #15
Dan Daniel
Registered User
 
Dan Daniel is offline
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,523
The bright edge on the right side is probably shutter curtain hanging up, as mentioned already. The hinge area that needs foam is on the opposite side from this bright area.

The glow in the center reminds me of a Jupiter 12. I assume that it is from the lens- nothing in a focal plane shutter camera to lead to this effect?

Other unevenness makes me think that the shutter travel is erratic. Probably either bone dry or gummed up and hanging in variable ways.
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-02-2019   #16
twvancamp
Thom
 
twvancamp's Avatar
 
twvancamp is offline
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Daniel View Post
The bright edge on the right side is probably shutter curtain hanging up, as mentioned already. The hinge area that needs foam is on the opposite side from this bright area.

The glow in the center reminds me of a Jupiter 12. I assume that it is from the lens- nothing in a focal plane shutter camera to lead to this effect?

Other unevenness makes me think that the shutter travel is erratic. Probably either bone dry or gummed up and hanging in variable ways.
That's useful--the lens is a Elmar 9cm 3.5 and pretty rough for wear. Plan is to move the lens out and CLA the body. Really hoping that gets things right because I love the design and feel of this camera.
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-02-2019   #17
Dan Daniel
Registered User
 
Dan Daniel is offline
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,523
Quote:
Originally Posted by twvancamp View Post
Thanks for the offer. I had been looking at Jupiter 8's but got mixed feedback on whether the older version would work on the P. Plus how do you feel they stack up to a Canon 1.4?

My goal was to get one really strong lens and just make this my everyday camera. So I'm happy to pay more for the Canon if the results are noticeably above the Jupiter.
The Jupiter 8 fits the P. It is the Jupiter 12 that has the bulbous rear element. I have a black 1987 Jupiter 12 that fits my P.

I started with a Jupiter 8 and 12. Went to Canon 35mm f/1.8 and Canon 50mm f/1.8 black. Both are excellent lenses. But low contrast all in all. I like this and wanted this, but if you want more pop the 35mm f/2 or the 50mm f/1.4 are probably better choices. The Jupiter 8 is an excellent lens, by the way.

See how the 35mm frame lines work for you. I wear glasses and have somewhat deep set eyes so it takes effort to see the 35mm lines. I'm comfortable with this, but if you want breathing room around the lines you might stick with a 50.


And agreed, the P has a nice feel. I never thought about one until I had a chance to play with one for a few days. Sweet solid compact camera. Just does what it is supposed to do, nothing more (well, it isn't supposed to have erratic and uneven exposures all the time).
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-02-2019   #18
Dpingr1
Registered User
 
Dpingr1's Avatar
 
Dpingr1 is offline
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Muncie, IN
Posts: 118
If you take off the lens and shine a flashlight through it, you’ll probably see a lot of haze and/or fungus and/or dirt. Those old lenses are notorious for haze (see the Bartender’s Cameraquest vintage lens pages for info on this). LTM lenses are easy to find at good prices, but haze is common in lots of the older ones. The Canon 50mm 1.8 is a very good lens that can be had for not much money, but expect haze there too. It’s just a problem with old lenses that can usually be addressed with a cleaning. Frankly, I don’t think the pictures look that bad for an untested camera and a trashed lens. Youxin Ye works on these cameras, and will be frank about whether a different camera or repair is the best path. I love my Canon P— there aren’t many cameras as gorgeous and usable.
__________________
Dan

"Time is but the stream I go a-fishing in." -- H. D. T.
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-02-2019   #19
twvancamp
Thom
 
twvancamp's Avatar
 
twvancamp is offline
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Daniel View Post
The Jupiter 8 fits the P. It is the Jupiter 12 that has the bulbous rear element. I have a black 1987 Jupiter 12 that fits my P.

I started with a Jupiter 8 and 12. Went to Canon 35mm f/1.8 and Canon 50mm f/1.8 black. Both are excellent lenses. But low contrast all in all. I like this and wanted this, but if you want more pop the 35mm f/2 or the 50mm f/1.4 are probably better choices. The Jupiter 8 is an excellent lens, by the way.

See how the 35mm frame lines work for you. I wear glasses and have somewhat deep set eyes so it takes effort to see the 35mm lines. I'm comfortable with this, but if you want breathing room around the lines you might stick with a 50.


And agreed, the P has a nice feel. I never thought about one until I had a chance to play with one for a few days. Sweet solid compact camera. Just does what it is supposed to do, nothing more (well, it isn't supposed to have erratic and uneven exposures all the time).
Great points. I aim for heavy contrast and the Jupiter shots I've seen, while plenty sharp for me, are as you say on the flatter side.

No glasses so I like the 35 lines, but all the Canon 35's I've seen have been ~$75-100 more than comparable condition 50's. I'm already at the end of my budget with the 1.4 so I think that's where I'll land.
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-02-2019   #20
Dpingr1
Registered User
 
Dpingr1's Avatar
 
Dpingr1 is offline
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Muncie, IN
Posts: 118
Oh, and another rangefinder thing: the longer the lens, the harder it is to nail focus, especially handheld and at large apertures. One of the many fine reasons that so many RF shooters like 35mm lenses!
__________________
Dan

"Time is but the stream I go a-fishing in." -- H. D. T.
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-02-2019   #21
twvancamp
Thom
 
twvancamp's Avatar
 
twvancamp is offline
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dpingr1 View Post
If you take off the lens and shine a flashlight through it, you’ll probably see a lot of haze and/or fungus and/or dirt. Those old lenses are notorious for haze (see the Bartender’s Cameraquest vintage lens pages for info on this). LTM lenses are easy to find at good prices, but haze is common in lots of the older ones. The Canon 50mm 1.8 is a very good lens that can be had for not much money, but expect haze there too. It’s just a problem with old lenses that can usually be addressed with a cleaning. Frankly, I don’t think the pictures look that bad for an untested camera and a trashed lens. Youxin Ye works on these cameras, and will be frank about whether a different camera or repair is the best path. I love my Canon P— there aren’t many cameras as gorgeous and usable.
You're right. I put my phone light up through the lens and it's definitely dusty/hazy. Not terrible terrible, but certainly not helping things.

And thanks for the context. I was sad when I saw the pics, but you're right. I got a good deal on it even considering the cost of a CLA. Plus I'll have a body I know is working for a while.
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-02-2019   #22
leicapixie
Registered User
 
leicapixie is offline
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Toronto.Canada
Posts: 1,575
Using old cameras 60 years old. is usually fraught with problems.
Shutter needs service and possibly has pin holes..
I purchased a 90mm Elmar, that had minimal haze but was a "dog".
I gifted it to a collector..It never once gave anything but hazy out of focus images.
Lens elements may be installed incorrectly.
A CLR for Canon P and a clean lens ought to give images you will be happy with..
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-02-2019   #23
twvancamp
Thom
 
twvancamp's Avatar
 
twvancamp is offline
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by leicapixie View Post
Using old cameras 60 years old. is usually fraught with problems.
Shutter needs service and possibly has pin holes..
I purchased a 90mm Elmar, that had minimal haze but was a "dog".
I gifted it to a collector..It never once gave anything but hazy out of focus images.
Lens elements may be installed incorrectly.
A CLR for Canon P and a clean lens ought to give images you will be happy with..
Compared to what I've seen on the market this body/shutter are pretty clean. So I'm hoping CLA gets shutter issue worked out.

And yeah the Elmar is an odd lens. Hoping I can get something out of it AS IS to offset a 50 or 35.
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-02-2019   #24
JSteed#2
Registered User
 
JSteed#2 is offline
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 14
Shutter curtains are slowing. Had the problem in a Leica. Simple to repair
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-03-2019   #25
TenEleven
Registered User
 
TenEleven's Avatar
 
TenEleven is offline
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 34
I think it's not related to the shutter curtains as the artifact is round and located in the center. Most shutter problems manifest in the left or right (assuming horizontal orientation) periphery of the frame.

I have a different bet: I think the round mark is parasitic light reflections bouncing off the inner lens barrel of the Elmar. I had very similar artifacts (I'll attach some samples later when I get home.) on a 85/2 lens, where the internal blacking of the barrel (not the lens glass itself) had deteriorated and stray light was bouncing off it and onto the film plane.

Luckily with some flat black paint (the flatter the better obviously) this is a relatively easy fix.

Edit: A hood would of course help as well - less stray light in less stray light out.
__________________
Manuel
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-03-2019   #26
darinwc
Registered User
 
darinwc is offline
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 68
Lots of replies already.
The soft images and light areas in the center are definitely die to the lens.
The light line on the side is due to the shutter bouncing or slowing at the last moment.

Good choice on the Canon P. Excellent camera. A class will fix the problems and it will be reliable for years.

For lenses, the 1.4 Canon is perhaps the best vintage lens available. And within your budget. And it balances nice on the P.

I would pick the 1.8 Canon as a close second.
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-02-2019   #27
twvancamp
Thom
 
twvancamp's Avatar
 
twvancamp is offline
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 29
Second roll through Canon P!

At the advice I got in this thread, I found a new lens and had the body inspected. After a CLA (I think mostly it was the light seals) things are working good as new. Really enjoying this camera. Wanted to post a few photos from the second roll and give my thanks to those who shared their opinions. Canon 35mm f2 and Portra 400.

Canon P by twvancamp, on Flickr

Canon P by twvancamp, on Flickr

Canon P by twvancamp, on Flickr
__________________
Instagram
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 01:04.


vBulletin skin developed by: eXtremepixels
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

All content on this site is Copyright Protected and owned by its respective owner. You may link to content on this site but you may not reproduce any of it in whole or part without written consent from its owner.