Can I develop enlarging paper using the "saw" method?
Old 06-02-2019   #1
Steve M.
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Can I develop enlarging paper using the "saw" method?

I have some trays, but I'm not crazy about them. I also have a double sink in the kitchen, which is just a little too small for 11x14 paper. I was wondering if I could use the sinks for developer and stop by grasping the paper on each side and continuously sawing it back and forth to keep it covered w/ developer?
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Old 06-02-2019   #2
Erik van Straten
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I don't think this is very good for baryt paper, but maybe for resin coated. Baryt paper must be in the developer for 3 to 5 minutes, resin coated much shorter.


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Old 06-02-2019   #3
Bill Clark
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Developing is doable.

How do you intend to wash the devepoer off of the print brfore fixing?

But how do you intend to use fixer?

A pita to me!

I would recommend buying some trays.
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Old 06-02-2019   #4
Ko.Fe.
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I develop FB and RC paper. No difference. Developing time depends on concentration of developer.

I recommend to check this sawing first without any developer. Just to see if it actually possible.
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Old 06-02-2019   #5
retinax
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11 x 14 is not too large for trays to be used frequently and not too expensive, or one might even find something suitable as trays in a hardware or container store, even just getting a single one and shuffling through the liquids will be easier than see-sawing. I'd reserve that for bigger larger formats one does very infrequently.
I don't see why FB paper should take longer to develop. It's the washing that takes longer because fixer remains in the paper base, the emulsion side is the same as RC paper.
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Old 06-02-2019   #6
Steve M.
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Paper usually develops to completion in 2-3 minutes, right? That's all I have ever done. It doesn't really hurt to go longer, but it won't develop any more past that. This is fiber paper, Ilford Multigrade cool tone. I have some large trays for 16x20, but one leaks a little, and in general I just never got on w/ these trays.

That was a darned good suggestion to try it and see first. I just tried sawing some 11x14 paper in the sinks and it worked fine. Once you twist the faucet out of the way it's a clear area. It looks like it will work.

The idea is to develop the paper in one sink, then into the other sink for the stop. Then head into the bathroom where the leaky tank can do no damage. Once I'm in there, I can fix the paper, run the print through another tray w/ water in it to purge some of the fixer, then float the prints in the bathtub. When the printing session is finished, the bathtub is a good place to wash the prints.
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Old 06-02-2019   #7
pschauss
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I do my 11x14" enlargements in a print drum using a roller base to rotate it. Works for resin coated and fiber base paper.
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Old 06-02-2019   #8
Glenn2
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Back in the day, (seventies) I used a stainless steel curved tray called a colour canoe. These were sold by Heath for home processing of colour paper.
In use you float them in a tray of water for temperature control while rocking side to side..... in the dark. They work quite well, I made many exhibition 16x20 prints and won awards with them, so not too shabby.

I also have a smaller tray for 8x10 that takes less chemicals.
The large tray works fine with 11x14. Processing was one shot with the Agfa chemistry I was using at the time.

Don’t see why one of these wouldn’t work for B&W, but not sure about reuse of B&W chemicals especially developer. Seem to remember it took only a couple ounces to do a print.

Years ago I knew people who processed mural size prints by sawing them in a home made trough. Paper was taped to a wall and 45 degree front surface mirror projected images from enlarger across the room.

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Old 06-02-2019   #9
newsgrunt
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can do, same idea as extra large prints developed in troughs used to wet wallpaper.
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Old 06-02-2019   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve M. View Post
I have some trays, but I'm not crazy about them.
This looks like the right thing to explore. What is it about them you don't like? Something about their functionality? Their appearance?

if you are going to do much printing, I think you will quickly tire of doing it in the kitchen sink!

I think the see-saw method will expose the developer constantly to the air, which will cause oxidation and premature weakening of the developer.
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Old 06-03-2019   #11
olifaunt
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It may be a health risk to contaminate the sinks you use for washing food and dishes. Also, you are not supposed dispose of developer/fixer into public drains.
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Old 06-03-2019   #12
Iain W
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Back in my younger years working as a darkroom tech we used to process large prints this way. By large I mean 1 x 2 meters. It is very doable.
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Old 06-03-2019   #13
Bill Clark
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Quote:
you are not supposed dispose of developer/fixer into public drains.
Are you sure?

There are a lot of worse chemicals that go into a muni sewer system than photography developers and fixers.

An FYI take a peek at the quantity of waste water processed for the Twin Cities each day.

Take a look here:

https://metrocouncil.org/wastewater-water/Services.aspx


Here is info:

“MCES treatment plants process about 250 million gallons of wastewater every day from more than two million residents in 109 communities across the region. Wastewater in conveyed to treatment plants through 600 miles of large interceptor sewer pipes that collect the flow from local municipal sewers.

You’d probably be surprised what chemicals do get processed.
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Old 06-03-2019   #14
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It will work but be careful, it is easy to damage a large wet sheet of paper this way.

Also, i always do the fixing or at least part of it, in the dark. Not sure why.
I never figured whether exposing to light the developed,stopped but yet unfixed paper would have any detrimental effect.
This considering that you plan to walk with it to the bathroom for fixing.
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Old 06-04-2019   #15
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What I use are those plastic 3-draw storage bins, available in a variety of sizes, including ones that will accommodate 11x14. The footprint takes up the equivalent of one regular tray.
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Old 06-04-2019   #16
Ronald M
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Wear gloves and and be aware of body heat damage where you hold the paper.

A tray ladder would be much better. They do not seem to be sold today, but are easy to make.
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Old 06-04-2019   #17
olifaunt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Clark View Post
Are you sure?

There are a lot of worse chemicals that go into a muni sewer system than photography developers and fixers.
Yes I am sure. Typical photo chemicals are toxic.

Photolabs, universities, etc., are not allowed to dispose of their chemicals into the public sewer system. Besides toxicity, the silver for example ruins the waste treatment process. The EPA does surprise inspections at my university's photo facilities, for example, to ensure compliance. The fines are in the millions and we have an employee hired for the sole purpose of training and inspection to ensure compliance.

But yes, large polluters get away with tons of stuff. For small people, there's the convenient thing to do, and there is the right thing to do. Many municipalities provide places you can take it for safer disposal.
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Old 06-04-2019   #18
Bill Clark
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I guess it’s another reason to use digital photography equipment!
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Old 06-04-2019   #19
Steve M.
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If my cooking hasn't contaminated the sinks, then this stuff is OK Everyone I know develops their film in the kitchen, then pours it down the drain when it's exhausted, including me. It's fine.

The trays I have are plastic w/ thin lips around the top edges. They break off when you grab them there when the trays are heavy w/ chemicals or water. Then they snap off in your hand. There's sharp edges that will poke you when that happens, and bits fly off lord only knows where, like in the tray w/ the paper. For what I paid for the trays from Freestyle, I can do better using the sinks until I can get to Walmart or Family Dollar for something inexpensive AND better.

Actually, I think the sink will work well. Will post the results in a few days.
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