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Business / Philosophy of Photography Taking pics is one thing, but understanding why we take them, what they mean, what they are best used for, how they effect our reality -- all of these and more are important issues of the Philosophy of Photography. One of the best authors on the subject is Susan Sontag in her book "On Photography."

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The Empty Mind -- film vs. digital
Old 03-10-2008   #1
Steve Williams
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The Empty Mind -- film vs. digital

Since the end of November I have committed myself (along with a friend) to shoot two rolls of film each week, process, and make three silver prints. At the end of January I started posting the results on my Vespa blog (a Vespa and Leica are similar) and until this past week was quite satisfied with the process.

You can see the 3 Prints Project posts HERE

The key word for this post is process.

Another friend and serious photographer cautioned me about becoming enamored with process and suggested that passion for what I see should be driving me and not the warm fuzzy feelings I get being in the darkroom (yes...*sigh*).

And he went on to suggest that not only might I be hobbled by the process but shooting film might keep me from reaching the Empty Mind, the place where I can let go of my expectations and preconceptions and really begin to see.

Words from him are not something I take lightly. And I have considered carefully how I work with film. Looking at my contact sheets it's obvious that I am careful tripping the shutter and work with what is familiar and comfortable. I don't take risks and don't push. He could see it. (*******)

Ever the rationalizer I suggested that if I wasn't getting the warm fuzzies from the camera and process I wouldn't be shooting. He conceded my point but told me that it did not remedy my careful view of things.

So I have been second-guessing myself for the past week. I parked the M6 in the Domke bag and have been carrying the Nikon D200 with a 20mm lens around. I use it professionally but never much personally. It's a beast in comparison and I don't feel comfortable with it. Strange considering how much I use it otherwise. But there is no doubt that I am face to face with my narrow approach and predisposition with the Leica.

I can't turn this around in my head any longer. (Well, I could but don't want to). So aside from venting existentially I was wondering if any of you have run into a similar fork in the road?

Have any of you long time informal shooters made the transition to a digital SLR and found new freedom? Or new paths?

I carried the Leica everywhere. The D200 is a pig but carry it I do. But I feel myself hating it.

Will this pass?
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Old 03-10-2008   #2
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Dear Steve,

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but, um... M8?

Though for black and white, well, I'd stick with film (as I do).

Edit: Then again, I'm no believer in 'Empty Mind' in photography. Buddhist practice, yes. Photography... no. And in any case, I strongly suspect that hating the camera you're using is completely incompatible with 'empty mind' anyway.

Cheers,

R.

Last edited by Roger Hicks : 03-10-2008 at 08:02.
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Old 03-10-2008   #3
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This would be a great post in a dSLR forum.
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Old 03-10-2008   #4
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I've shot a few years with a Nikon FM and collected glass, it's now one year I got my D200 and shot a lot with it since I did a lot of travelling and events. A while ago I started shooting BW film again, and an M2 as well.

M2 serves for shooting for myself now, mostly in Black & White. D200 for color: nature, macros, parties, events, experiments, tasks for a magazine I shoot for,...
No idea what I'll do with my 2 FM's
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Old 03-10-2008   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Williams
... Will this pass?
Sure. You will become complacent and bored with it.

Your friend motivates himself the way he does it, and you have your own separate motivation. If shooting with your DSLR is producing the type of work you like, then keep it up. If you want to go back to your Leica, do that. I don't really see the conflict. It seems as if you are trying to become The Photographer that your friend envisions.

Then he'll be happy with your work.

But what will make you happy with it?
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Old 03-10-2008   #6
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Quote:
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but, um... M8?
The M8 isn't any more pocketable than the D200.

Try this on for size:

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/phot...p?product=9769
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Old 03-10-2008   #7
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Interesting post Steve. I'm going to give you my view point from the other side.

When I started shooting seriously four years ago I went straight to digital and didn't even consider a film camera because I thought film was obsolete...

I began shooting and learned to composite elaborate photos in photoshop. The more I did it, the more I fell into the same routine. I was using all the same effects, sharpening techniques, etc. So about 6 months ago I got fed up and and bought an M3. Little did I know that shooting film instead of digital would open my mind to the potential of photography. Not because film is the conduit to my imagination but because it made me realize how much impact a picture has and not the camera it's been shot with.

Shooting film is like driving a manual transmission car in the days of automatic. It's mostly personal preference and it has zero effect on where you go.
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Old 03-10-2008   #8
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Listen to Chris!

Me, all I can say is: M8
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Old 03-10-2008   #9
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maybe not but I relate much to your experience. I have both rd1 och leica m and I found that I didn't get what I wanted from digital b&w due lack of dynamic range and pretty uggly pattern of noise and grain. This was clearly not better alternative to Trix with D76. But time consuming of developing films left me still undecided if I can get rid of digital stuffs. Probably not that I'm gonna abandon the digital arena but I see the digital medium as good choice to fool around and learn how to take better pictures after instant feedback in the lcd screen of camera or a computer. M8 sounds much nicer alternative to DSLR for professional use and this still can compete with Canon 1ds by judging quality of prints. I also owned nikon DSLR and I find the bulkiness of DSLR too big everytime. Olympus offerings have come close to OM classic body and Nikon fm2.

I'd feel glad to be able use expensive M mount lenses on not only on "hobby" cameras, also future digital or professional tools. So it is wise to mantain same system as possible if other applications don't require another system.
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Old 03-10-2008   #10
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I shoot both, about equally, professionally.

I think digital is great, I do often take more risks and shoot more frames, but digital is not always the right fit. The fact you can see it right away can be very distracting and break up my way of seeing and assessing light.

With film, I make the judgement call, frame it, wait for the right moment, click and then move on to the next frame.....that is the key thing, with film, I make the current image and then I move on. I have faith in what I just did and don't even feel the need to chimp.

There is no right or wrong, worse or better, there is simply another option in photographic history.

One thing I have noticed is that the quality of images I see has not grown at the same rate that digital has taken the photography world. I see a ton more mediocrity because that is the limit of the user. The new fangled digital camera is not actually helping them to see better, just quicker.

So while your friend might be right in that if you are so enamored in the process of film that it might be preventing you from seeing more connectedly, the very same thing could be said if digital.

For every time you look at the back of the digital camera, it points your head downward, away from the world, the moment and the life that you live and places you in the past, not the present that will give you the best opportunities for meaningful images.
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Old 03-10-2008   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Hicks
Dear Steve,

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but, um... M8?

Though for black and white, well, I'd stick with film (as I do).

Edit: Then again, I'm no believer in 'Empty Mind' in photography. Buddhist practice, yes. Photography... no. And in any case, I strongly suspect that hating the camera you're using is completely incompatible with 'empty mind' anyway.

Cheers,

R.
Hello Roger,

The M8 has crossed my mind more than once. The cost still scares me though.

I am curious though about the Empty Mind not being compatible with photography. Seems as if a visual release could be beneficial. I just finished reading Walter Isaacson's biography of Albert Einstein and it seemed obvious that Einstein sort of lived a non-stop Empty Mind approach that allowed him to see things others could not.

When I look at my personal photos I can see a repeating of things. I just can't get my head emptied of "this is good composition, this is worth shooting, Cartier-Bresson already did this, blah and blah..."

I do appreciate the feedback though.
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Old 03-10-2008   #12
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when I checked your gallery, I can tell that you're not gonna to get same rich tonality with any digital available within 35mm. So stick with film for art 's sake. I love your art
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Old 03-10-2008   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Williams
I just finished reading Walter Isaacson's biography of Albert Einstein and it seemed obvious that Einstein sort of lived a non-stop Empty Mind approach that allowed him to see things others could not.

When I look at my personal photos I can see a repeating of things. I just can't get my head emptied of "this is good composition, this is worth shooting, Cartier-Bresson already did this, blah and blah...
Great book, Walter is a friend and neighbor of mine.

As fun as it is to look at other's work, I actually try to avoided it for the most part. I never want to be concerned if another photographer has already made an image. If I think it is a good image, I should make it.

Last edited by KM-25 : 03-10-2008 at 08:28.
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Old 03-10-2008   #14
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It seems like your helpful friend now occupies your mind and you are, therefore unable to empty it. Shoot something he would no like and see how it feels. I don't think film/digi is the problem.
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Old 03-10-2008   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Williams
Hello Roger,

The M8 has crossed my mind more than once. The cost still scares me though.

I am curious though about the Empty Mind not being compatible with photography. Seems as if a visual release could be beneficial. I just finished reading Walter Isaacson's biography of Albert Einstein and it seemed obvious that Einstein sort of lived a non-stop Empty Mind approach that allowed him to see things others could not.

When I look at my personal photos I can see a repeating of things. I just can't get my head emptied of "this is good composition, this is worth shooting, Cartier-Bresson already did this, blah and blah..."

I do appreciate the feedback though.
Dear Steve,

The problem I have is with 'empty mind' and 'prepared mind'. In photography (as in Buddhist practice) you need to have a framework for what you are going to see, and 'empty mind' is as much a framework as slavish following of the 'rules of composition' or the excessive analysis you describe.

My most original thoughts generally come unexpectedly, from a vast range of sources. For example, I've just written a piece for my AP column in the UK which was prompted by something I read in a book about folk song: about how the historical accuracy or factuality of a folk song is substantially irrelevant to its success and impact.

In photography, I'm much inclined to shoot first and ask questions afterwards, which may be why I am happier with 35mm than with 8x10 inch. What happens, increasingly, is that I see something and then 'shoot around' it. Sometimes my favourite shots are not the ones I expected, and I can't even explain why I like them. At least, not to myself, though I can always do the Empty Artspeak if someone is interested.

Maybe 40 years ago I wrote a poem that began, "I see everything twice today," about that special intensity that comes when you see things as if for the first time. Today, I try to remember always to look at things, for themselves, for their beauty, not as potential subjects for pictures. Often I forget to shoot; only later do I think, "Oh, bugger, I could have photographed that." Sometimes, at the time, I think, "That's too hard to photograph." But sometimes I get pictures.

This is why, FOR ME, your approach of 'X films per week' would be counterproductive -- and why I don't want to use a camera I don't like. I'm not saying you will feel the same way; just suggesting it as an alternative.

There's a wonderful phrase, 'hardening of the categories'. Ask yourself, "Am I doing it this way because I have always done it this way? How else could I do it?" And even if the new way doesn't sound as good, give it a try. It might surprise you.

Cheers,

Roger

Last edited by Roger Hicks : 03-10-2008 at 09:03.
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Old 03-10-2008   #16
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Shoot faster. Think less, react more. Don't put things in the center of the frame so much. Use the ability to see the edges to your advantage.

Camera doesn't matter unless it's a hindrance to above.

Many people, myself included, came to the Leica not so much because of what if offers feature wise but because everything else feels like a hindrance to shooting. I avoided it for as long as I could shooting with point and shoots, small SLRs etc till I tried one and realized it has just the stuff I want and nothing else to get in the way of seeing and shooting.
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Old 03-10-2008   #17
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Fascinating question, Steve. Your response to your friend is much as mine would have been.

I don't know the Empty Mind concept, but it sounds a child-like state in which the filters that adults use are inoperative. I don't know whether that's something to aspire to or not. My own childhood was a time of visual and olfactory wonder, but with hindsight it seems that it was chiefly 'macro' in perspective, much more obsessed with detail than my adult senses. I could be fascinated by the iridescent patterns of oil on a rainwater puddle, and neither notice the passage of time nor hear the lorry approaching.
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Old 03-10-2008   #18
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The whole concept of the "empty mind" for me, is what is at the core of any art, suggesting that you need to use this or that tool to achieve that zen is a highly pedestrian view of things... I rarely see digital photos that move me. Not because they are digital but because they somehow lack comittment one way or another. If there was any foundation to what your friend was telling you, for the amount of digital cameras that are now out there in the world, we'd be INUNDATED with amazing photography and I simply dont see it.

Your freedom as an artist comes from within. The only thing whatever tool you hold in your hand to realize it should do, primarily, is not get in the way. If you have a tool you arent comfortable with that tiny bit of angst for it is always going to be somehow, part of the equation when you use it. For some people this is a film camera or a digital camera or this kind of guitar or that kind of brush. If you, as the artist, cant overcome and fluidly work with the tool, you arent much of an artist. Perhaps for your friend, that was a digital camera. Its not going to be the same for everyone. To suggest a digital camera will somehow set you free is among the more absurd things Ive heard in quite a while and really goes to the core of what for me, will always be wrong with nonlinear storage systems and their interaction with the creative process.
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Old 03-10-2008   #19
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I have no qualms with risking a frame on film. I don't think the film/digital has anything at all whatsoever to do with such a thing.
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Old 03-10-2008   #20
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This sounds like over-intellectualised, pretentious claptrap to me. You have set yourself a task which has now become a chore. You have allowed yourself to doubt your own eye and your own mind because you have listened and given weight to the opinions of another. Now you are doing it again by airing your "concerns" here.

For goodness' sake abandon the artspeak, and walk away from your project for a while. The kit is not important - it is just a tool. If the tool comes between you and your vision, it is the wrong tool. Go back to your project when you feel motivated to do so. The rest will follow.


Regards,

Bill
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Old 03-10-2008   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillP
...Go back to your project when you feel motivated to do so. The rest will follow.

Regards,

Bill
Waiting for motivation spells certain doom for me. Motivation only arrives for me in the doing, especially with photography. I don't want you to think that shooting film has become a chore. Quite the contrary, it is a pleasure. And in that pleasure hides the danger of going through the motions of shooting pictures purely for the enjoyment of the process. And that is what my friend has cautioned.

Artspeak. I love that word. Fear of that kept me out of school for decades. I wish I would have found out sooner it was just a different language like all others. But let's save that for another day and another post...
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Old 03-10-2008   #22
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Ask me, there's a few too many empty minds running around the landscape. Most of them seem to be in traffic with me at any given time.
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Old 03-10-2008   #23
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Before I gave up engineering for Apple a decade ago, I asked myself a question: I spend much of my time using computers for the sake of computers: testing them, finding their limitations etc... When do I use them to create? I fell into a common pattern, which is to contemplate the tool rather than use the tool to create. I'm a gadget guy, and often am enamored with equipment. However, when I left that world I vowed not to use a tool for the sake of itself, but to focus on what it can do for me artistically. I don't "covet" my cameras as possessions, nor keep those things that don't provide artistic utility for me. This may be extreme, but it has helped me to focus on the output rather than the tool.

That said, I often find myself asking "When should I take my 5D and when should I take my MP?" The answer boils down to "what's the job at hand?". If I *need* to get the picture - to trust that I'm not going to miss the shot... If I need a quick process that results in the best images in the shortest amount of time, I carry the 5D. Sure, it's big with that 85mm 1.2 lens - but that's the right tool for me. If I want to experience the analog photo process for art reasons, or work quietly, or am going to a place without plugs for recharging, I grab the MP. No one camera can solve both issues for me (yet). The M8 is great, but it's just not yielding the results that my 5D does (please note: this is not a dig on the M8 at all! for me, maybe it's totally the tool for others!!)...

So, I feel your angst. Fight the urge to get caught up in using a camera for the sake of itself and grab whatever gets the job done for you. For a while, carry them both... You'll know based on what gives you the best images in the end.

I've noted that the Leica's are an amazing object unto themselves. They feel good - they're built so well - I enjoy using them due to this. But (again, this is just for me!) if compared purely in terms of the images they give, I grab the 5D for it's sheer reliability, full frame and low light brilliance and to "get the job done without worry".

Don't grab a camera based on how much you've spent on it or how it feels in your hand, or even how much space it takes up in your bag (within reason, of course). Grab it because you utterly enjoy the images it produces.

This is a totally subjective opinion - there's nothing wrong with using a tool for the sake of itself - and for many, Leica IS the best tool for the job.

These days, I just want to create great images and tell my story - I don't really care what tool gets it done as long as one of them does :-)

The M8 is the first camera and lens combo that made me consider a break from my current tool. But I can't get the same images out of it that I can with the 5D/85 combo - and I can't replace it overnight if it breaks.

I hope this helps a little in your search - good luck in your creation!

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Old 03-10-2008   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Williams
... I don't want you to think that shooting film has become a chore. Quite the contrary, it is a pleasure. And in that pleasure hides the danger of going through the motions of shooting pictures purely for the enjoyment of the process. And that is what my friend has cautioned....
I think, in the nicest possible way, you should ignore your friend. Doing something purely for enjoyment is enough. In fact, it's the height of good sense. It's the best use of your time.

Having looked at your project posts, I'd say it's working. Your work is good and you enjoy what you're doing. Good for you. I think we all should become more like you.
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Old 03-10-2008   #25
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My recommendation would be to get a nice cheap fixed lens rangefinder (Konica auto s2, Olympus 35LC or SP or RD, Minolta 7s2) and take all that money and burn through some serious film. That's the only way, I think, that PJs felt free, they just burned thorugh film like it was there own sweat. I think there's a lot to be said about being free and some of these cameras offer comparable image quality and function to your leica, but freeing you up to buy lots of film and to also throw your camera at your friend and not worry about the expense when it breaks his face. I'm just kidding about that, I think your friend is on to something worth thinking about!


Actually those RFs above are not "cheap" in the fixed-lens universe. But they're not leica expensive either.
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Old 03-10-2008   #26
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I found moving from a DSLR to an analogue RF made me a better shooter, gave me more freedom, and made me happier. I gave my Nikon to my Dad.
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Old 03-10-2008   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lns
Doing something purely for enjoyment is enough.
I couldn't agree more. As appealing as it is to overcomplicate things, and look for elaborate frameworks, it all comes down to doing what you enjoy, nothing more, nothing less.
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Old 03-10-2008   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jayjee

Shooting film is like driving a manual transmission car in the days of automatic. It's mostly personal preference and it has zero effect on where you go.
Exactly! So if the day ever comes where you can afford a Porsche 911SC or similar just get an automatic. There's not difference, you'll get to the same place...
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Old 03-10-2008   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larky
I found moving from a DSLR to an analogue RF made me a better shooter, gave me more freedom, and made me happier. I gave my Nikon to my Dad.
Me too. My hit ratio is much higher even though logically it should not make any sense. That plus I cannot get the lookl I want in digital for B&W. I need B&W emulsions for that and digital simply cannot replace it, for me anyway.
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Old 03-10-2008   #30
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Exactly! So if the day ever comes where you can afford a Porsche 911SC or similar just get an automatic. There's not difference, you'll get to the same place...
Try sitting in Chicago traffic with the clutch shoved in, let out. Shoved in, let out. Etc. You'll cry for an automatic.
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Old 03-10-2008   #31
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Try sitting in Chicago traffic with the clutch shoved in, let out. Shoved in, let out. Etc. You'll cry for an automatic.
Dear Bill,

This is not an argument against Porsche manual gearboxes; it is an argument against going to Chicago. Worse still, going to Chicago with the wrong car.

Cheers,

R.
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Old 03-10-2008   #32
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Really interesting musings from the OP - and an interesting thread. Although not completely in line with the empty mind concept, it definetely points to one of the core problems of photographing, and that is to avoid visual clichés. If the "emptynes" works for you to get rid of visual preconceptions - fine. I tend to go another route (which you can see as a kind of"simmilar opposite").
I try to shoot two sheets of 4x5 film in my old Speed Graphic each day (one holder). Nice as a document of the daily routine, but, more important, a e reallly good lesson of judging the (personally) right from the wrong. The awkwardness of the 4x5, the slow composing (you can shoot handheld with the Speed), and the limitations of two sheets all help in bringing a certain aesthetic judgement upfront - which is helping me clearing the vision.
As a sideeffect I love to shoot grainy Tri-x in Rodinal again

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Old 03-10-2008   #33
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This is close to my view on this subject.

Different people have different motivations & working methods, e.g., Mozart v. Beethoven.

Not everybody has to achieve this so-called "Empty Mind" to be creative.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris101
Sure. You will become complacent and bored with it.

Your friend motivates himself the way he does it, and you have your own separate motivation. If shooting with your DSLR is producing the type of work you like, then keep it up. If you want to go back to your Leica, do that. I don't really see the conflict. It seems as if you are trying to become The Photographer that your friend envisions.

Then he'll be happy with your work.

But what will make you happy with it?
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Old 03-10-2008   #34
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Neither is pocketable, but surely you don't believe that the M8 is the same size & weight as the D200 (even assuming each has a comparable prime attached)?

However, I do agree that a compact digital like the Caplio might be more "mind-emptying" than a D200 & be a lot easier to carry around.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin m
The M8 isn't any more pocketable than the D200.

Try this on for size:

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/phot...p?product=9769
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Five a Second. Chicago's Bell & Howell Co. (cameras) announced that it would put on sale this fall the world's most expensive still camera. Its "Foton" will take five 35-mm. pictures a second, sell for $700. Bell & Howell, which has found that "families of both low and high incomes now spend over $550" for movie equipment, hopes to sell 20,000 Fotons a year.
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Old 03-10-2008   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KM-25
For every time you look at the back of the digital camera, it points your head downward, away from the world, the moment and the life that you live and places you in the past, not the present that will give you the best opportunities for meaningful images.
Love this paragraph !!! Why do poeple immediately feel the urge to check the picture they have just taken with their digital toy ? Keep focussing on your subject and take another shot. When you shoot film you also can't check it before development.

I got myself a Lumix LZ7 just for some documentation purpose where it's really incovinient to wait until the film is exposed and developed. And this little toy is just that, a toy, gadget that is full of features that had me cracking up [Baby 1 , Baby 2 scene modes with automatic age display once you did the programming of the birthdates: ROFL-MBO] For the purpose I bought it for it's a great value for money ($129 +S&H). But not for taking pictures to capture the decisive moment - that will be gone during the shutter lag anyway .

There clearly is a perceivable difference in the barrier before you press the shutter. This is of course much lower because you just fire away and may delete 95% later. With film you are more careful, more observant and you may ask yourself. Do I have to take this shot? - Maybe not. You make a selective decision before the shot not afterwards.

Maybe you are more "empty" with a digital camera but for me that would be unselectively sucking up everything infront of the lens/sensor/memory chip. I prefer being open but selective with film.
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Old 03-10-2008   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Hicks
Dear Bill,

This is not an argument against Porsche manual gearboxes; it is an argument against going to Chicago. Worse still, going to Chicago with the wrong car.

Cheers,

R.
Ah, so if a person finds themselves in a situation that favors the use of a digital SLR over a rangefinder, the problem is not the camera - the problem is that they are taking photographs of the wrong things. I get it now, thanks.
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Old 03-10-2008   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreilly
My recommendation would be to get a nice cheap fixed lens rangefinder
There is value in this comment. At first I considered it to be rather flippant (sorry) but I realize that is isn't.

When I was about 15 I was given a cheap 35mm rangefinder, I think a Supra. The lady at the store where I bought it had to show me how to load film and how to figure out exposure etc. I knew nothing, absolutey nothing.

I really enjoyed that camera and I used it 'til I was 21. I think I took some of my best work, in many ways, back then because I had no expectations of myself or the camera. I didn't consider the limitations of my camera or my abilities, I just went blindly on and did what I did.

Later I got well caught up in the gear aquisition, what are the good lenses, the best films, bodies and all that. My photography really suffered.

What has stayed with me is the realization that to free my mind it is helpful to be totally comfortable with my tools whatever they may be. Because of this I've stayed with the film cameras I've owned for so long. I don't have to second guess technology I can just work with what I know.
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Old 03-10-2008   #38
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First, I want to thank everyone for their insights and suggestions. Even though some of you suggested following my own intuition my personal experience has proven that insight is best tempered by a few external insights. Despite being a loner by temperment I have found great worth in the views of others. But in the end I have to figure out what to do.

A few things have jumped out in the discussion that are worth thinking about.

It's not about cameras, it's about what I see.

Keep working.

Keep things simple.

Have fun.

Tragically hip... that's funny!
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Old 03-10-2008   #39
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Why the arbitrary 2 rolls a week and 3 prints. It IS arbitrary. Just shoot whenever there is a shot worth taking (you would be surprised how few shots you will take) and print only the great shots (not the good or very, very good ones). The empty mind comes from not, not thinking. Not from not thinking. Or, just shoot. However, Buddhist practice is one thing and photography another. You may actually want to think MORE and shoot less.

I am reminded of a commercial stock photographer who shot, according to him, over 2,000 rolls of film a year. Figuring it was just 24 exp per roll, that's , mmm, lets see....that's a LOT of pics! And he got 4 or 5 a year that paid the bills. So I wouldn't be worried about printing. I can sometimes get several printable shots a month, then not get any in a year. Edit, edit, edit.

Last edited by myoptic3 : 03-10-2008 at 20:28.
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Old 03-10-2008   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Williams
... It's not about cameras, it's about what I see. ...
Seeing it without a camera is just plain frustrating.
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