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Roger Hicks -- Author of The Rangefinder Book

Roger Hicks is a well known photographic writer, author of The Rangefinder Book, over three dozen other photographic books, and a frequent contributor to Shutterbug and Amateur Photographer. Unusually in today's photographic world, most of his camera reviews are film cameras, especially rangefinders. See www.rogerandfrances.com for further background (Frances is his wife Frances Schultz, acknowledged darkroom addict and fellow Shutterbug contributor) .


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Steve Sasson and Maggie Thatcher
Old 04-10-2013   #1
Roger Hicks
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Steve Sasson and Maggie Thatcher

The news media in the UK are filled at the moment with the death of the Maggon. But how enduring is her real legacy? Thatcherism (right wing individualism) is a political movement which can and will be reversed. But Steve Sasson's invention of the digital camera can't be reversed. Steve, happily, is still with us. So is (Sir) Tim Berners-Lee, generally credited as the 'inventor' of the internet. Sir Robert Edwards (Nobel prize for IVF, in vitro fertilization) isn't: he has just died.

Are the media too obsessed with essentially short term political swings, and not concerned enough with genuinely important technological change? Is this because there are too many arts graduates in the media, and not enough scientists? What technological advances would you rate as more important than (say) Thatcherism, Ronnie Reagan and Obama?

Cheers,

R.
 

Old 04-10-2013   #2
rover
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Al Gore invented the internet.
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Old 04-10-2013   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rover View Post
Al Gore invented the internet.
I always wondered where and who started this thing/quote/myth.

Well Roger all three Obama, Thatcher and Ronnie are basically puppets so every technological, scientific and art development of the bast 6 Millions years is more important than those three. The media never asks the right questions like who is the puppet master. The development of antibiotics, of synthetic medicine (Aspirin) and it's byproduct Rodinal. The Steamengine pre Watt, the number Zero by the Arabs and Chinese, powered aviation by Pearse all are important so is art we need both technology and art. My recent personal fav amongst technological invention is the MRI invented by a medical doctor who did not receive the Nobel price unlike the two physicist who received the price for the MD's invention.

BTW you forgot Steve Jobs as extremely overrated personality little to no invention but great marketing just like the aforementioned three.
 

Old 04-10-2013   #4
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Soft ice-cream, although that may be apocryphal.
 

Old 04-10-2013   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Hicks View Post
The news media in the UK are filled at the moment with the death of the Maggon. But how enduring is her real legacy? Thatcherism (right wing individualism) is a political movement which can and will be reversed. But Steve Sasson's invention of the digital camera can't be reversed. Steve, happily, is still with us. So is (Sir) Tim Berners-Lee, generally credited as the 'inventor' of the internet. Sir Robert Edwards (Nobel prize for IVF, in vitro fertilization) isn't: he has just died.

Are the media too obsessed with essentially short term political swings, and not concerned enough with genuinely important technological change? Is this because there are too many arts graduates in the media, and not enough scientists? What technological advances would you rate as more important than (say) Thatcherism, Ronnie Reagan and Obama?

Cheers,

R.
The media is concerned with selling ads. Everything it reports as news, to some extent, is predicated on bringing in viewers. Now, with the exception IVF, which actually did get quite a lot of attention when it was first developed, the other two developments were events that developed gradually and whose full implication was not generally recognized until long after the fact. In contrast, regardless of whether or not their impact was long lasting or not, Thatcher, Reagan and Obama can have a great impact over a short period of time, hence the media's obsession with political leaders.
 

Old 04-10-2013   #6
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how enduring is her real legacy?
Roger,
Frankly, far too bl***y enduring for my liking. Her physical passing isn't really significant (except of course, to the wretched muppets in the media business) as she'd reached a "Good Age".

However, the demise of her political philosophy would be both significant, and welcome. I'll keep hoping... although I know I'll be whistling in the wind...
T.
 

Old 04-10-2013   #7
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Hi, disgracefully in my country technology is a weapon of the politicians to make people have more debts but never to get rid of banks and bankers....

For instance everyone has a credit card or many credit cards but cannot pay a decent school for their children...

Another sad example is the fact you can get a clear paying/financial record of every single citizen but you cannot get that kind of info about child abusers...

This legacy was inherited from an ally of Mrs Thatcher...that helped her a great deal during a war...

Bye!
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Old 04-10-2013   #8
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Originally Posted by MickH View Post
Soft ice-cream, although that may be apocryphal.

Did Mrs T invent that ?
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Old 04-10-2013   #9
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Peter, the story has been doing the rounds on the BBC for 24+ hours. It seems she may have worked in a lab that came up with 'soft serve' ice cream (Mr Softee/Mr Whippy). She's being credited with the invention at the moment.
 

Old 04-10-2013   #10
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So I hope Roger (since he used the term) can explain the derivation of "the Maggon." I had never heard that one before. Is it merely combining Maggie with dragon?

I have to say, seeing the old clips of her dancing with Reagan made my gorge rise. But not being British, I can't speak with much knowledge to what Thatcherism wrought. I do get the impression that the UK was really in dire straits (hmm, is that why they named the band that?) in the early-mid 70s, much worse than the USA during that time. Whether the labor unions really did have too much power is something I can't speak to.

I do know this -- when Reagan died there wasn't the joyous reaction I saw in the TV clips accompanying Maggie's passing. That really surprised me.
 

Old 04-10-2013   #11
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What technological advances would you rate as more important than (say) Thatcherism, Ronnie Reagan and Obama?

Cheers,

R.


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Old 04-10-2013   #12
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What technological advances would you rate as more important than (say) Thatcherism, Ronnie Reagan and Obama?

Soft lavatory paper.
 

Old 04-10-2013   #13
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[quote=Sejanus.Aelianus;2115604]

We need more little boys prepared to point out the lack of clothing on the emperor.[/quote]

Ahh Sejanus, prefect of the Roman Empire's Jesuits...

"point out the lack of clothing on the emperor." Dye mean non-Leica users should do this?

Vint Cerf and Robert Kahn produced TCP/IP (the internet) - Berners-Lee suggested the www.

Thatcherism? No such thing. She simply proved that fascists could wear stilettoes. She was the front for the gang of 4. Sir Keith Joseph " a pool of ill-educated, uncertain labour as a source of low-waged, unrepresented units of production". Edward du Cann "if three million unemployed reduces wages and strikes, it's a price we shall pay", Ian Gow " The relaxation of and the removal of certain financial controls must be made so that the City financial centres can be competitive globally" and Airey Neave, the man who was going to assassinate Tony Benn if he ever became prime minister. ALL her policies eventually failed..





But I digress... Technologically? The cassette tape/deck - anyone could become a DJ.

 

Old 04-11-2013   #14
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Originally Posted by KoNickon View Post
So I hope Roger (since he used the term) can explain the derivation of "the Maggon." I had never heard that one before. Is it merely combining Maggie with dragon? . . .
Ah; sorry; rather highly culturally specific reference.

In the children's comic "Eagle" in the 1950s the front page was "Dan Dare -- Pilot of the Future". His arch-enemy (much like Dr. Who and the Daleks) was the Mekon, an evil green-skinned Venusian.

Decades later (1987) there was a cartoon strip in Private Eye called "Dan Dire -- Pilot of the Future?" in which Labour leader Neil Kinnock (aka 'Kinnochio') was portrayed as Dan Dire and Maggie was the Maggon.

Cheers,

R.
 

Old 04-11-2013   #15
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Originally Posted by KoNickon View Post
So I hope Roger (since he used the term) can explain the derivation of "the Maggon." I had never heard that one before. Is it merely combining Maggie with dragon?

I have to say, seeing the old clips of her dancing with Reagan made my gorge rise. But not being British, I can't speak with much knowledge to what Thatcherism wrought. I do get the impression that the UK was really in dire straits (hmm, is that why they named the band that?) in the early-mid 70s, much worse than the USA during that time. Whether the labor unions really did have too much power is something I can't speak to.

I do know this -- when Reagan died there wasn't the joyous reaction I saw in the TV clips accompanying Maggie's passing. That really surprised me.
Highlights: it was, and they did. But Maggie's reaction to the unions wasn't just part of the normal dialectic of power. It was a deliberate (and largely successful) attempt to demonize and smash the unions.

The thing is, the unions were dying (or in recession) anyway. So was the coal industry. This is true in most developed countries. The reason she was so hated was the sheer malevolence with which she and her cronies attacked these and other working-class targets.

Cheers,

R.
 

Old 04-11-2013   #16
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Originally Posted by locheeboy View Post
. . . Vint Cerf and Robert Kahn produced TCP/IP (the internet) - Berners-Lee suggested the www.

Thatcherism? No such thing. She simply proved that fascists could wear stilettoes. She was the front for the gang of 4. Sir Keith Joseph " a pool of ill-educated, uncertain labour as a source of low-waged, unrepresented units of production". Edward du Cann "if three million unemployed reduces wages and strikes, it's a price we shall pay", Ian Gow " The relaxation of and the removal of certain financial controls must be made so that the City financial centres can be competitive globally" and Airey Neave, the man who was going to assassinate Tony Benn if he ever became prime minister. ALL her policies eventually failed...
Para 1: You are of course right. That was a sloppy conflation on my part.

Para 2: Yes... That's what I meant in my post above about malevolence...

To others: Yes, I think you're right about the importance of those technological advances, except perhaps soft ice cream.

Cheers,

R.
 

Old 04-11-2013   #17
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Have to say I'm disappointed by the sheer vitriol that accompanied her death. She was probably the first leader to have the guts to say you can't have all the goodies without paying for them. With 50% pay rise demands year on year by the miners, power workers et al the greed and power-mongering by the likes of Scargill and Red Robbo was bound to bring conflict with Government.
Maybe some thought should be spared on where the UK would be without that realism she espoused. A dozen years of Blair and Brown went on to bankrupt the country. Socialist hand-outs and benefits for free until the money/national borrowing has run out is where we are today. The truth hurts.

The Pole Tax was a poorly thought out disaster though.

Last edited by woollybandit : 04-11-2013 at 01:33. Reason: Qualifying point added
 

Old 04-11-2013   #18
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mmmm "Socialist handouts" ... yum
Counterfactuals are tricky things and I generally don't bother ... but ...

It would be interesting to speculate where the UK would be today with a manufacturing industry, and without the "me first" anti-societal impulses, intensive deregulation, and large-scale privatisation that she and her contemporary cronies and later epigones (Major and Blair) espoused. We might find we had a more robust economy, less greed and short-term profiteering leading to banking collapse, and public services that were there to serve the public rather than make profit.
 

Old 04-11-2013   #19
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And I think with that we will let this UK political commentary rest.
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