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X100 compatibility with M system lenses
Old 12-11-2010   #1
anitasanger
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X100 compatibility with M system lenses

I really wish that this new rangefinder-esque camera was being released with interchangeable lenses. I'm happy with the specs of the fixed lens that comes on it, but the option to use other lenses would be amazing. And when I say other, I mean Leica M glass if course!*

I'm sure they couldn't release it with a Leica bayonet due to proprietary issues, so they should just make their specially designed f2 detachable. Then the 3rd party market could create a Leica M adapter and all we Leica fiends who can't afford an M9 can finally utilize our existing glass on a nicely designed digital body!*

If Fuji did this and the sensor, software and controls are as good as they say - the x100 could possible become legendary. It has a timeless design, looks relatively tough and can legitimately compete with a DSLR. A Leica M system compatibility would instantly make this camera a best seller. In my opinion anyway.*I realize other Cameras have achieved an M mount, but not easily on a full-frame camera.

Thoughts?

Luke*
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Old 12-11-2010   #2
Phil_F_NM
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It's called the R-D1.
Or a refurbished M8.

Both have the same sensor size as the Fuji. (M8 slightly larger...)

Comparing the Fuji to an M9 is like comparing a Fuji APS film camera to an M6. There is no comparison. It's not an M9 you're looking for with regard to similar sensor sizes, it's the already existing cameras on the market.

The exclusive rights on the Leica M bayonette ran out a few years ago which is when Konica did the Hexar RF and Cosina started the M voigtlander line. After that we had a bunch of companies, including Zeiss making M mount bodies and lenses, so there is no infringement on any copyrights anymore.

I think that Fuji recognized that there is a market for a high quality point & shoot with a fast lens, optical viewfinder, with manual controls on the camera and with automation too. With the Sony and 4/3 options out there to compete with they would be just another competitor in the same market if they brought out such a camera.

You have to remember that the X100 is not a true optical rangefinder which is one of the reasons that Leicas are so expensive. Same with the R-D1. Those things are not cheap to make and to make well. Without the RF, the Fuji is just another live view point & shoot with interchangeable lenses.

They aimed to create something that was very good at what it does and in its own niche. Like the Hexar AF.

Phil Forrest

Last edited by Phil_F_NM : 12-11-2010 at 20:23.
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Old 12-11-2010   #3
anitasanger
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Good points, but the mentioned cameras are still significantly more expensive than this camera. Well, supposedly...I guess we'll see. I just really dig this camera and would love to use my M lenses on it. I know it's nowhere near a Leica in anyway, nor
is it a rangefinder. But the layout, design, operation and hybrid viewfinder would be really nice in tandem with M lenses.
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Old 12-11-2010   #4
Phil_F_NM
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The RD1 sells now for just around $1000. I sold both of mine for less than $1000 each last year.

I'm eager to see the X100 come out too. Then to see what cameras come down in price by a few hundred.

Phil Forrest
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Old 12-11-2010   #5
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Nice, I may need to look into the RD1 a little more! Or maybe just go buy some more tri-x and stop worrying about it. I sure do love my m6 classic!
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Old 12-11-2010   #6
Phil_F_NM
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I hear you about film. If i didn't have to produce on deadline, I'd shoot everything with my M4.

Phil Forrest
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Old 01-18-2011   #7
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M lenses were designed for a different format from a previous century.
This is a whole new ball-game.
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Old 01-18-2011   #8
johnny.moped
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Not to forget, that the X100 is no a rangefinder and thus there would be no option of focus-confirmation with M-lenses.
That's of course not true for EVF-mode but therefore you don't need a X100.
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Old 01-18-2011   #9
jsrockit
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If you can afford M glass...then you can afford a proper M camera.
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Old 01-18-2011   #10
Brian Sweeney
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Most Auto-Focus cameras with interchangeable lenses use passive autofocus mechanisms and would have no problem providing confirmation with manual-focus lenses.

I have put a Summicron on my Nikon DSLR and get focus confirmation.

With the X-100 at $1200, and prices of used Leica M8's at $1800- I would go with an M8 if you have Leica glass.
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Old 01-18-2011   #11
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Awake, mad scientists awake!

There is a picture in the Fuji web site laying out the major camera parts:
http://www.finepix-x100.com/en/story/craftsmanship

Notice the big hole in the camera body and the various rings above?

Conceptually [please, allow me], that hole is big enough [~45mm] for M-mount lenses. And, I have long determined that the flange to sensor distance is 26mm, just shy of the M-mount (28mm - 50u). This means a 2mm shim-mount is doable, just like the u4/3 or NEX.

Removing the Fuji 23mm lens is removing the whole encased lens module:
http://www.finepix-x100.com/en/story/ and its life-support wiring.

What is left is a camera body with an APS-C sensor optimized for a 35mm eqv. lens...and possibly with a ~20-degree off-angle tolerance like the M8/9. If so, does that means lenses as wide as 28mm is tolerable?

The OVF is independent of the camera lens. The EVF is dependent only on the sensor [was that why Fuji said/hinted a front-mounted focal length converter is possible?]

The camera firmware needs to be lobotomized...or restricted to MF only?

Where is Igor?
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Old 01-18-2011   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankie View Post
Awake, mad scientists awake!

There is a picture in the Fuji web site laying out the major camera parts:
http://www.finepix-x100.com/en/story/craftsmanship

Notice the big hole in the camera body and the various rings above?

Conceptually [please, allow me], that hole is big enough [~45mm] for M-mount lenses. And, I have long determined that the flange to sensor distance is 26mm, just shy of the M-mount (28mm - 50u). This means a 2mm shim-mount is doable, just like the u4/3 or NEX.

Removing the Fuji 23mm lens is removing the whole encased lens module:
http://www.finepix-x100.com/en/story/ and its life-support wiring.

What is left is a camera body with an APS-C sensor optimized for a 35mm eqv. lens...and possibly with a ~20-degree off-angle tolerance like the M8/9. If so, does that means lenses as wide as 28mm is tolerable?

The OVF is independent of the camera lens. The EVF is dependent only on the sensor [was that why Fuji said/hinted a front-mounted focal length converter is possible?]

The camera firmware needs to be lobotomized...or restricted to MF only?

Where is Igor?
Didn't someone frankenstein a sigma dp1 or 2 into taking M mount? I think it was on m4/3 rumors and it showed it working.

I personally don't care. I want 35mm f/2 and there isn't an M lens that will give you that for less than the cost of the x100. If I want another lens length, longer, well that's much easier with the m4/3, the RD-1, and m8.
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Old 01-18-2011   #13
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I would say Igor is finding plenty of work in Fuji's labs if the new X100 is able to post on internet forums:

Quote:
Originally Posted by X-100 View Post
M lenses were designed for a different format from a previous century.
This is a whole new ball-game.
IT'S ALIIIIIIIIIVE!!
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Old 01-18-2011   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by videogamemaker View Post
......I want 35mm f/2 and there isn't an M lens that will give you that for less than the cost of the x100.
I originally wanted a dZI only with the CV 40/1.4. The X100 as it stands is close enough...thus "[Window 7] was my idea!"

I had delved into retrofitting an old M and invoked many critics [except now Head Mad Scientist Brian Sweeney]. They had no clue I did the same thing professionally in photogrammetry [big bucks instruments that cost the same as a good house] and against Wild Heerbrugg no less [now also called Leica, different owner].

For the fun of it, mad scientist unite!
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Old 01-18-2011   #15
Frankie
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Videogamemaker, read this for the fun of it:

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/foru...5&postcount=34
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Old 01-18-2011   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X-100 View Post
M lenses were designed for a different format from a previous century.
This is a whole new ball-game.
I agree. But saying that in RFF is, ahem, dangerous.
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Old 01-18-2011   #17
Phil_F_NM
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We have the M8 and the M9 available to M lens shooters. An X100 with M lenses is a solution to a problem that never existed.
I completely understand if you're trying to shoehorn a lens from one format onto another using film, but in this case, it's exchanging one fantastic lens on a half frame camera to use other lenses on that half frame camera when other options already are available. Conjecture is fun though.

Phil Forrest
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Old 01-18-2011   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankie View Post
Awake, mad scientists awake!

The OVF is independent of the camera lens. The EVF is dependent only on the sensor [was that why Fuji said/hinted a front-mounted focal length converter is possible?]

The camera firmware needs to be lobotomized...or restricted to MF only?

Where is Igor?
Sorry- I was busy setting the vertical alignment of a Leica IIIf with a Radioactive Summicron on it. Leica Glow.

I'm still not sure about using Thorium lenses on a Digital camera.

It would be easy to generate Framelines with the Hybrid finder for any focal length covered by the viewfinder. I forget, are they using an ARM?
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Old 01-18-2011   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Sweeney View Post
Sorry- I was busy setting the vertical alignment of a Leica IIIf with a Radioactive Summicron on it. Leica Glow.

I'm still not sure about using Thorium lenses on a Digital camera.

It would be easy to generate Framelines with the Hybrid finder for any focal length covered by the viewfinder. I forget, are they using an ARM?
Seeing as this will be a near-herculean task, wouldn't it be worth waiting for an actual FF version? The only thing going for it is the EVF, and possibly a nicer sensor than the M8/9 (yet to be seen, but possible)

I guess if you already have a lot of M lenses that you like the character of but can anticipate the crop factor not bothering you, but it still seems sort of like a waste.

Better idea would be to cobble the X100 viewfinder into the M9 body.
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Old 01-18-2011   #20
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That will work...but we're going to need shaft encoder, PIC32, and take apart the EVF of an EP2. I have two of those...and have the MIPS compiler.
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Old 01-18-2011   #21
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In all seriousness: I will be surprised if an M10 does NOT have a hybrid viewfinder.

I look forward to the X-100 as a digital equivalent of my Minolta Hi-Matic 9, Canon Ql17l, and Konica S2.
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Old 01-18-2011   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Sweeney View Post
It would be easy to generate Framelines with the Hybrid finder for any focal length covered by the viewfinder. I forget, are they using an ARM?
ARM? If you mean a micro-processor type, then I have never read any Fuji talk about it.

Framelines are easy, so is a parallax-wedge [virtual RF], a focusing patch [up to 5X], even micro-prism type you like [essentially a bi-directional parallax-wedge].

DoF scale not so easy, what is engraved on the M-lenses needs translation...perhaps a snap-on plastic half-ring.

Last edited by Frankie : 01-18-2011 at 11:44.
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Old 01-18-2011   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Sweeney View Post
In all seriousness: I will be surprised if an M10 does NOT have a hybrid viewfinder.

I look forward to the X-100 as a digital equivalent of my Minolta Hi-Matic 9, Canon Ql17l, and Konica S2.
Hey, Leica copying/emulating/imitating Fuji???

I predict M10 will have a self-illuminating LED for the framelines...a 3.5 x 2.5 x 2mm thick flat LED is available on eBay at ~$10 for a hundred, any color.

I looked forward to the X100 as my dZI + CV 40/1.4 equivalent...you recall how I got down the M-retrofit path.

Last edited by Frankie : 01-18-2011 at 11:43.
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Old 01-18-2011   #24
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The Shutter mechanism of the M8 (and M9) demonstrates that Leica does not suffer the NIH syndrome.

So "adopting good ideas"... let's all keep an open mind.
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Old 01-18-2011   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankie View Post
I predict M10 will have a self-illuminating LED for the framelines...a 3.5 x 2.5 x 2mm thick flat LED is available on eBay at ~$10 for a hundred, any color.
I think you're correct. Doesn't the M9-Ti use LED framelines? Or did I imagine that?
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Old 01-18-2011   #26
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I think you're correct. Doesn't the M9-Ti use LED framelines? Or did I imagine that?
You are correct. That was cause for much celebration by many. I fondled one in Tokyo soon after.
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Old 01-18-2011   #27
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Focus confirmation is provided electronically, like the m4/3 cameras.
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