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Old 01-19-2011   #41
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Originally Posted by gekopaca View Post
Always thinking the X-100 will be a really intersting concept, there's now a growing list of disapointments/useless things :

- no interchangeable lens
- no black paint
- no "B" speed
- Focusing by wire
- "bip bip" when touching the aperture dial (maybe there's a silent mode?)
- digital zoom
- video mode
- panoramic mode (???!?!?)
- ridiculous mini-flash
- existence of Fuji Guys

Do I forget something?
There is B speed, there is silent mode. If you want black paint, interchangeable lenses, manual focusing, with no flash, no video, or panoramic mode, buy an m9.
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Old 01-19-2011   #42
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Originally Posted by gekopaca View Post
Always thinking the X-100 will be a really intersting concept, there's now a growing list of disapointments/useless things :

- no interchangeable lens
- no black paint
- no "B" speed
- Focusing by wire
- "bip bip" when touching the aperture dial (maybe there's a silent mode?)
- digital zoom
- video mode
- panoramic mode (???!?!?)
- ridiculous mini-flash
- existence of Fuji Guys

Do I forget something?
You got me thinking here a bit..
Every contemporary digital camera (at least expensive one's) should have video, whether you need or not.
Maybe Fuji is planing to include Video and Interchangeable lens on next version of X100.
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Old 01-19-2011   #43
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Video in a viefinder camera optimized for stills shooting doesn't make sense. Why should me be made to pay for a feature hardly anyone will use in this camera? I hope that Fuji won't fall for such marketing BS.
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Old 01-19-2011   #44
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Originally Posted by videogamemaker View Post
They clarified via twitter that they did indeed mean 49 *focusing* points. I've attached an image that demonstrates, notice how it says "af-s" on the right side? YOu can see it in the image attached to this post of mine.

......I am not sure what the 5x5 squares are in the engadget video......
shutter lag is very minimal......
I correlate that 5x5 rectangle image with Fuji's own statement/illustration about user selectable focusing zones in shooting "off-centre subjects without having to resort to the focus lock facility". Each one of those zones will have to have at least one focus point......

Fuji says in their own web site that the shutter lag is ~0.01s [or 10ms] which compares quite well with M-cameras 8~15ms rating, and much faster than SLR mirror/shutter action. Of course many think Fuji lied or could not be possible......

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Old 01-19-2011   #45
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Originally Posted by Arjay View Post
Video in a viefinder camera optimized for stills shooting doesn't make sense. Why should me be made to pay for a feature hardly anyone will use in this camera? I hope that Fuji won't fall for such marketing BS.
Jeez, I pay for features I don't want in my cameras all of the time... that's life. Some people like video in their camera...
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Old 01-19-2011   #46
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You got me thinking here a bit..
Every contemporary digital camera (at least expensive one's) should have video, whether you need or not.
Maybe Fuji is planing to include Video and Interchangeable lens on next version of X100.
The X100 already does record video. The aperture and shutter youtube video was filmed with a 2nd X100

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Originally Posted by Arjay View Post
Video in a viefinder camera optimized for stills shooting doesn't make sense. Why should me be made to pay for a feature hardly anyone will use in this camera? I hope that Fuji won't fall for such marketing BS.
Whether or not you or I think it makes any sense (I am not planning to use it) is irrelevant. It's become a must have marketing feature that will directly affect sales negatively not to have, or at least that is the "common knowledge" amongst camera manufacturers, as almost every single new camera released lately minus the M9 has had video functionality. The Sony A900, despite being a wonderful camera, has been dinged in reviews more times than I can count for not including video.

If you already have live view functionality, and a modern processor chip, video is near-free to include. I would love it if I could wave a magic wand and have what little resources, design placement for video buttons/menus, and cost that goes into video be instead put into making the whole thing a tiny bit smaller or cheaper, or with less noise, but it's not like an equation where you can add and subtract things like that.

It's not marketing BS, leaving it out could actually affect sales (though I doubt it) and it does not increase the cost of the camera. The M9 doesn't have video, and it's certainly not cheaper because of it. A 49.99 pocket camera has video, and it's not more expensive because of it.
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Old 01-19-2011   #47
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I correlate that 5x5 rectangle image with Fuji's own statement/illustration about user selectable focusing zones in shooting "off-centre subjects without having to resort to the focus lock facility". Each one of those zones will have to have at least one focus point......
Focus points are for phase detection, the X100 uses contrast detection, which can pretty much work based on any area of the sensor. It just needs an arbitrary zone boundary assigned to what it should care about.

The Fuji statement about off center subjects applies just as readily to 49 points as it does to 25. The image I linked to should easily be proof that they are focusing points, especially with corroboration from the fujiguys when specifically asked if they meant focusing or metering. They might be a little slow, but I don't think they're that stupid.
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Old 01-19-2011   #48
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......Do you know what the calculations would be in terms of actual res with a 3x zoom? Does that mean it would be 4mp, or 2mp?......
To get a 3X zoom...from 35mm to 105mm eqv....the 4000 x 3000 sensor would have to be cropped to ~1440 x 1080, about 1.5Mp.

All that is simple proportional calculation based on the H/V lens coverage.
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Old 01-19-2011   #49
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I don't know how new this photo actually is, but here's a good high-res shot of the ex-hundred w/ case:

http://a.yfrog.com/img640/6249/nvizi.jpg

Oh, and a second one:

http://a.yfrog.com/img620/9202/rsoxk.jpg

Last edited by tapesonthefloor : 01-19-2011 at 12:17.
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Old 01-20-2011   #50
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Originally Posted by videogamemaker View Post
If you want black paint, interchangeable lenses, manual focusing, with no flash, no video, or panoramic mode, buy an m9.
I would so much…

Why nobody makes a M9 without the red dot (and with inferior price)?
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Old 01-20-2011   #51
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I would so much…

Why nobody makes a M9 without the red dot (and with inferior price)?
Because they wouldn't make a profit?

You ding the X100 for including marketing features that will sell more cameras. You and I and the rest of RFF might not use or want them, but they are bullet points that move cameras right now. That allows them to leverage the volume of sales instead of a crazy high price.

You want your cake and eat it too, we all do, but I think we have to keep in mind we are using products of a capitalist market, and tradeoffs will always have to be made unless we design and fund it 100% to our own preferences.
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Old 01-20-2011   #52
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To get a 3X zoom...from 35mm to 105mm eqv....the 4000 x 3000 sensor would have to be cropped to ~1440 x 1080, about 1.5Mp.

All that is simple proportional calculation based on the H/V lens coverage.
Thanks. What about at 85mm? Sorry I'm using you as a calculator, but this kind of math is far too over my head to figure out.

New Tweet: With ability to select Film Sim mode: Velvia, Provia, & Astia on #Fuji X100, you can also adj d-range, highlight / shadow tone too.

Has anyone ever tried a camera with a built in film simulation? I understand it's not going to be 100%, BUT if it's the actual manufacturer, they know exactly how the sensor responds to color and light, and could theoretically get the color response calculations really really close if they wanted. I've tried the DXO film pack, but it has to start assuming the colors are perfect and even, then apply the simulation. They can't know if the yellows recorded too bright or two dark on my sensor, but Fuji can in a sensor they manufacture.
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Old 01-20-2011   #53
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Originally Posted by videogamemaker View Post

New Tweet: With ability to select Film Sim mode: Velvia, Provia, & Astia on #Fuji X100, you can also adj d-range, highlight / shadow tone too.
That tweet did it for me, I'm going to buy the Fuji X100!
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Old 01-20-2011   #54
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That tweet did it for me, I'm going to buy the Fuji X100!
I looked at some of the film simulation results from the Fuji s5 and they look like ****, none of them look like film to me. . Maybe they'll get it right this time, but I doubt it.

Highlight shadow tone sounds like split color, which can be nice. The only one that I like is the d-range, I have a really nice B&W setting for my 5D, as the colors of the original 5D LCD are horrendously ugly. I shoot in raw, but it shows me the little preview on the back in B&W, helps me see the composition and ignore colors till I'm back on a real photo monitor. I am sure I'll spend some time getting the right "look" for the back LCD images so I can see what I captured in the clearest way for that particular LCD.
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Old 01-20-2011   #55
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I looked at some of the film simulation results from the Fuji s5 and they look like ****, none of them look like film to me. . Maybe they'll get it right this time, but I doubt it.

Highlight shadow tone sounds like split color, which can be nice. The only one that I like is the d-range, I have a really nice B&W setting for my 5D, as the colors of the original 5D LCD are horrendously ugly. I shoot in raw, but it shows me the little preview on the back in B&W, helps me see the composition and ignore colors till I'm back on a real photo monitor. I am sure I'll spend some time getting the right "look" for the back LCD images so I can see what I captured in the clearest way for that particular LCD.
Judging by your work, you primarily shoot portrait and fashion, how would X100 help you in that genre?
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Old 01-20-2011   #56
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Judging by your work, you primarily shoot portrait and fashion, how would X100 help you in that genre?
I'm a hobbyist, never made any money from my photography, I just enjoy it a lot as a creative outlet. I'm a paid artist in another medium, and having to answer to an art director or client has sucked a lot of the joy out of that particular art for me. I use photography as an outlet where I can do whatever I want.

I like 35mm a lot. There will certainly be times when I take my 5D for portrait work, but for travel and my home photography (which I don't put on my portfolio site) I love a 35mm on my 5D, it's just a bit overkill for the task.

Plus I'm hoping a rangefinder-ish small camera will encourage me to experiment more and do some impromptu work out in life instead of always having to plan a shoot.
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Old 01-20-2011   #57
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Thanks. What about at 85mm? Sorry I'm using you as a calculator, but this kind of math is far too over my head to figure out.

New Tweet: With ability to select Film Sim mode: Velvia, Provia, & Astia on #Fuji X100, you can also adj d-range, highlight / shadow tone too.......
You will have to crop the image down to ~1760 x 1265 to get an 85mm eqv....~2.23 Mp.

AND that tweet was not news. Those film SIM modes were published in Fuji's own site some time ago. See: http://www.finepix-x100.com/en/your-...s-capabilities

I had always said, memory is as important as diligence.
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Old 01-20-2011   #58
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I'm a hobbyist, never made any money from my photography, I just enjoy it a lot as a creative outlet. I'm a paid artist in another medium, and having to answer to an art director or client has sucked a lot of the joy out of that particular art for me. I use photography as an outlet where I can do whatever I want.

I like 35mm a lot. There will certainly be times when I take my 5D for portrait work, but for travel and my home photography (which I don't put on my portfolio site) I love a 35mm on my 5D, it's just a bit overkill for the task.

Plus I'm hoping a rangefinder-ish small camera will encourage me to experiment more and do some impromptu work out in life instead of always having to plan a shoot.
Its good to hear that you're an artist and really believe this camera would open new creative avenues for you.
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Old 01-20-2011   #59
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Originally Posted by Frankie View Post
You will have to crop the image down to ~1760 x 1265 to get an 85mm eqv....~2.23 Mp.

AND that tweet was not news. Those film SIM modes were published in Fuji's own site some time ago. See: http://www.finepix-x100.com/en/your-...s-capabilities

I had always said, memory is as important as diligence.
Thanks again for the math.

I remember it being announced, I was using the tweet more as a subject change to ask if any previous film simulations have been worth anything. One could argue that highlight/shadow toning is an elaboration on Fuji's "...and filter effects."


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Its good to hear that you're an artist and really believe this camera would open new creative avenues for you.
Really any new smallish camera would do this, and I've been looking at the M9, NEX, or even old film cameras. Even though they are all light boxes at the end of the day, I need to feel some connection and commitment to the machine to really absorb it as a part of my image making arsenal. And while I could afford the m9 with a 35mm lens if I really stretched, I'd much rather pay off my house earlier. :-) An M9 + lens is like 15 months of mortgage payments for me.
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Old 01-21-2011   #60
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@videogamemaker - do you make video games? I worked in that industry, and visual effects for feature. I know this is off topic, but we are all going in crazy directions about the X100 that I'm sure we can make it fit. For example, it looks old enough that I could take pictures of odd stuff for texture maps and people wont stare.

An M9 is a nice box, but I think the X100 will do for most people perfectly well. As long as it doesn't lag when focusing. Or as long as the manual is true manual, I'll be a hppy bunny.
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Old 01-21-2011   #61
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@videogamemaker - do you make video games? I worked in that industry, and visual effects for feature. I know this is off topic, but we are all going in crazy directions about the X100 that I'm sure we can make it fit. For example, it looks old enough that I could take pictures of odd stuff for texture maps and people wont stare.

An M9 is a nice box, but I think the X100 will do for most people perfectly well. As long as it doesn't lag when focusing. Or as long as the manual is true manual, I'll be a hppy bunny.
The manual focus is by wire. This enables it to turn CW or CCW depending on your preference. This is 100% certain.

I do work in the game industry, but right now I'm working full time on an animated film, and doing freelance on ipad games. My husband is a programmer for videogames so I am still heavily involved, we even do some small games on our own.

I hadn't even though about using it for textures, but damn, that's such a great idea. Always having it no matter what anyway, now I'm going to fill up my ref library!
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Old 01-22-2011   #62
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The manual focus is by wire. This enables it to turn CW or CCW depending on your preference. This is 100% certain.

I do work in the game industry, but right now I'm working full time on an animated film, and doing freelance on ipad games. My husband is a programmer for videogames so I am still heavily involved, we even do some small games on our own.

I hadn't even though about using it for textures, but damn, that's such a great idea. Always having it no matter what anyway, now I'm going to fill up my ref library!
Very cool. I'm working on an iPhone app currently to make texture collection and sorting easier, you snap a picture, it creates a 512x512 or 1024x1024 etc image, then an alpha, bump, spec etc, then a ZBrush style masked PNG all named correctly and dumps them on the web. Should be out fairly soon I hope. It'll be free. But it wont be as much fun as the X100.

I know a coder living in Iceland, goes by the online moniker of 'alife'.
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Old 01-22-2011   #63
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Very cool. I'm working on an iPhone app currently to make texture collection and sorting easier, you snap a picture, it creates a 512x512 or 1024x1024 etc image, then an alpha, bump, spec etc, then a ZBrush style masked PNG all named correctly and dumps them on the web. Should be out fairly soon I hope. It'll be free. But it wont be as much fun as the X100.

I know a coder living in Iceland, goes by the online moniker of 'alife'.
I might know him, but I don't know the nickname, sorry.

That app sounds amazing! Will it enable seamless tile creation? :-) Do you know of Crazybump? I used to work with Ryan, the programmer of that, great guy.

On that note, I think the closest we'll ever get to SDKs for cameras is when one starts to come with apps. I'm sure most will be awful tone-mapping or film simulations or tiny games that will be worthless, and the phones it first comes on will be consumer pocket cameras, but maybe it will become ubiquitous enough to reach high end cameras, and leave some of the camera UI and operations exposed for some nice tinkering.
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Old 01-22-2011   #64
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Yes! I use Crazybump. I have hooked my D200 up to my iPhone and can use the screen in real time, so I guess we could hook the two things together and use bigger sensors along with an iDevice to generate larger maps. But I have to get other things finished first.

But yes, it will be seamless. Which reminds me I have to finish testing the algo. Where do the weekends go!

Back to the X100. Not much to say, but I WANT IT NOW.
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Old 01-26-2011   #65
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Finally! the weight measurement.

fujiguys The Fuji Guys
#Fuji X100 Dimension: 126.5(W)mm×74.2mm(H)×53.9mm(H) including lens (Minimum depth: 31.0mm), Approx 405g/445g (without/with Batt&card)

X100: 445g
GF1*: 448g
Nex-5**: 361g
X1: 330g

*with 20mm 1.7
** with 16mm 2.8

Last edited by videogamemaker : 01-26-2011 at 10:15.
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Old 01-28-2011   #66
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Finally! the weight measurement.

fujiguys The Fuji Guys
#Fuji X100 Dimension: 126.5(W)mm×74.2mm(H)×53.9mm(H) including lens (Minimum depth: 31.0mm), Approx 405g/445g (without/with Batt&card)

X100: 445g
GF1*: 448g
Nex-5**: 361g
X1: 330g

*with 20mm 1.7
** with 16mm 2.8
W/H/D were known since Photokina.

I like the weight [now reported]...about a pound...gives it some heft. That coupled with favourable built-quality comments from dpreview.com indicate substance...to many a feeling associated with quality.
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Old 01-28-2011   #67
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W/H/D were known since Photokina.

I like the weight [now reported]...about a pound...gives it some heft. That coupled with favourable built-quality comments from dpreview.com indicate substance...to many a feeling associated with quality.
I just post the tweet without editing. I have seen the other dimensions long ago.

I would prefer it to be lighter, I don't care about heft, but this is definitely nice. My 5d and 35mm 1.4 is 1.42 kilos, so this is almost 1/3 the weight. Even if I bought the canon 35mm f/2 that's still 960 grams, making the x100 half the weight.

Also I have in my inbox a photo of the X100 sitting on a food scale at 450 grams, it's not "reported" it's fact, at least on these pre production models, highly unlikely to change.
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Old 01-28-2011   #68
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At http://photorumors.com/2011/01/25/fu...oRumors.com%29, there was this line from the Fujiguys: "By using the AF button in combination with the command level/dial, you can decrease the AF area of the Fuji X100"

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Old 01-31-2011   #69
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Anyone buying one in London wanna team up, get two at the same time, try to get a deal on something?

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Old 01-31-2011   #70
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Hands on comments from the guy in Norway who posted the images from the X100 last week before Fuji asked him to remove them.
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Old 01-31-2011   #71
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^X100 hype seems to be losing steam, otherwise everyone would be on your post.


Anyway, I keep reading rumors about Nikon's upcoming mirrorless camera that is targeted at semi-pros level (D300s class) unlike other mirrorless cameras. Its supposed to be announced in March and released in April. Considering that D7000 pretty much undercut D300s, there is a huge gap between D7000 and D700/D3, is that gap where this mirrorless camera might end up filling? It does sound like something Nikon might do and the indications are pretty strong, especially the patents filed by Nikon last year.

X100 hype would seem like nothing if this Nikon mirrorless camera is announced.

http://www.mirrorlessrumors.com/thom...and-magazines/
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Old 01-31-2011   #72
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Twitter ? tweets ?
strictly for the birds I'd say!!
[or people who really need to get out more]
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Old 01-31-2011   #73
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^X100 hype seems to be losing steam, otherwise everyone would be on your post.


Anyway, I keep reading rumors about Nikon's upcoming mirrorless camera that is targeted at semi-pros level (D300s class) unlike other mirrorless cameras. Its supposed to be announced in March and released in April. Considering that D7000 pretty much undercut D300s, there is a huge gap between D7000 and D700/D3, is that gap where this mirrorless camera might end up filling? It does sound like something Nikon might do and the indications are pretty strong, especially the patents filed by Nikon last year.

X100 hype would seem like nothing if this Nikon mirrorless camera is announced.

http://www.mirrorlessrumors.com/thom...and-magazines/
Every rumor I have seen about the Nikon one makes it look like the GF1 or whatever the model that still was shaped like a mini DSLR. If I want a bulky camera that does everything, I'll buy a real DSLR. The only mirrorless cameras so far that are delivering on the idea (IMO) are the Nex (with no viewfinder, but trades ultimate tininess) and the X100. Unless it also has an offset EVF that barely makes it larger, I for one won't be interested, though people with Nikon lenses might be.

The further expose from the Norwegian guy was interesting, but he seemed to cover most of it in his magazine review.

I think the forum has mostly died down because there hasn't been an update in a while, and we've all figured out most of the things possible at this point. Which is good, because I need to focus on work and not pine for this camera. :-)
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Old 01-31-2011   #74
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Twitter ? tweets ?
strictly for the birds I'd say!!
[or people who really need to get out more]

When you bought your Fed-2 didn't this sort of hype occur John?

Back then the only thing that actually 'tweeted' was a bird I guess ... and it wasn't going to tweet about no Russian camera! LOL
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Old 01-31-2011   #75
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Every rumor I have seen about the Nikon one makes it look like the GF1 or whatever the model that still was shaped like a mini DSLR. If I want a bulky camera that does everything, I'll buy a real DSLR. The only mirrorless cameras so far that are delivering on the idea (IMO) are the Nex (with no viewfinder, but trades ultimate tininess) and the X100. Unless it also has an offset EVF that barely makes it larger, I for one won't be interested, though people with Nikon lenses might be.

The further expose from the Norwegian guy was interesting, but he seemed to cover most of it in his magazine review.

I think the forum has mostly died down because there hasn't been an update in a while, and we've all figured out most of the things possible at this point. Which is good, because I need to focus on work and not pine for this camera. :-)
The indications are very strong that the mirrorless Nikon is coming. Interestingly there might be two versions one a 16mp and the other a 24mp. The 16mp for semi-pro market (D300s) the 24mp for pro market (D700). Now, in case that is true or even half true, lets say a semi-pro mirrorless, the implications are just too great to ignore. The semi-pro crop sensor DSLR market will collapse overnight and interestingly Nikon does not have anything of substance in that market anymore, D300s is slowly phased and soon we might hear its discontinuation along with D700.

So, a mirrorless Nikon semi-pro camera that has its own lenses and also takes F mount lenses with an adopter, just imagine the excitement.
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Old 01-31-2011   #76
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The indications are very strong that the mirrorless Nikon is coming. Interestingly there might be two versions one a 16mp and the other a 24mp. The 16mp for semi-pro market (D300s) the 24mp for pro market (D700). Now, in case that is true or even half true, lets say a semi-pro mirrorless, the implications are just too great to ignore. The semi-pro crop sensor DSLR market will collapse overnight and interestingly Nikon does not have anything of substance in that market anymore, D300s is slowly phased and soon we might hear its discontinuation along with D700.

So, a mirrorless Nikon semi-pro camera that has its own lenses and also takes F mount lenses with an adopter, just imagine the excitement.
I can certainly imagine the excitement.... in other forums. I just don't think Nikon's offering is going to scratch the RF itch. I'm sure it will be a great camera though.
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Old 01-31-2011   #77
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"You can even see a superimposed exposure-preview of your shot"

Though this sounds like the result of buggy firmware more than anything, I'm glad to see Fuji exploring the potential of superimposing image-on-image. I know their software engineers are playing with the possibilities, simply because I certainly would if I was on their team. As Frankie and I have said on and off from the start, real superimposed manual focus aids are not out of the question on this camera.

I'm actually pleased to hear that the firmware is still so buggy after months of development. This means that the camera is a tough one to program for, sure, but it also means there is a lot of potential there. Manual focus didn't even work on this pre-production model. The devs are still cooking up something interesting.

Also, it looks great sitting on a table:



/fanboy
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Old 02-01-2011   #78
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Originally Posted by tapesonthefloor View Post
"You can even see a superimposed exposure-preview of your shot"

Though this sounds like the result of buggy firmware more than anything, I'm glad to see Fuji exploring the potential of superimposing image-on-image. I know their software engineers are playing with the possibilities, simply because I certainly would if I was on their team. As Frankie and I have said on and off from the start, real superimposed manual focus aids are not out of the question on this camera.

I'm actually pleased to hear that the firmware is still so buggy after months of development. This means that the camera is a tough one to program for, sure, but it also means there is a lot of potential there. Manual focus didn't even work on this pre-production model. The devs are still cooking up something interesting.

Also, it looks great sitting on a table:



/fanboy
Keep in mind there is no assurance that the model being reviewed is up to date. It could very easily have 4 month old firmware, especially now finding that the review wasn't authorized by Fuji HQ. It for sure wasn't burned with the latest firmware, drop shipped to Fuji Norway, and then rushed out to this guy's hands, so it's at least a few weeks old, if not months. Most of the Fujiguys tweets even from the beginning seem to imply their version has more functionality.
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Old 02-01-2011   #79
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It does look lovely in that photo.
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Old 02-01-2011   #80
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Three new tweets, two with images:

fujiguys The Fuji Guys
#Fuji X100 OVF Information overlay explained http://bit.ly/h9Fgbh #photog

fujiguys The Fuji Guys
Similar to #DSLR, #Fuji X100 LCD can be used for shooting information display like this, http://bit.ly/gXQRDR #photog

fujiguys The Fuji Guys
Built-in Raw Converter #Fuji X100: Reflect Shooting Conditions, Push/Pull processing, dynamic range, whitebalance, film sim, WB shift,...


The bit about push/pull processing is kind of cool depending on how it does it. The two images were pretty much what I was imagining, but interesting to see it shown explicitly.
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