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Fuji X-100 Series This forum is for fans of the rangefinder retrostyled Fuji X Series of digital cameras.

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Old 01-25-2011   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie Pillers View Post
Assuming image quality proves to be excellent for 8x10 prints... PERFECT for me. Thanks Fuji!
There isn't much out there, with regard to digital cameras, that can't do a 8x10 print at this point...
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Old 01-25-2011   #82
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The Fuji Guy's twitter says the Norwegian review was unauthorized....uh oohhh.
Interesting info - so we can assume that this is a trade show sample that might have been floating around with FujiFilm reps for a while. Consequence: The camera's firmware status might be long outdated in reference to where Fuji internal firmware development might stand right now.

It's too early to whine and worry.
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Old 01-25-2011   #83
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I think it looks pretty cool. Aside from that it's hard to pass judgement without actually holding it and taking pictures with it. I was all gaga about the Canon G10 once, but when I actually used it, while it was nice, it wasn't the greatest thing since sliced bread.

That said, I definitely want to check it out.
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Old 01-25-2011   #84
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Originally Posted by andrew00 View Post
One area Fuji have definitely been cloudy on is the sensor, which some people suggested was an old D90 sensor (and not a new D7000 aka new Sony sensor) due to the 12 mp, though Fuji have said they designed it themselves we don't know if they designed a tweak from the stock sensor or what.
Both the D90 and D7000 sensors are Sony, as it are Pentax K-x and K-5. just slightly different generations. I'd be delighted with a D90 sensor.

The Fuji-specific customization (whether it's a Sony or something else) is the eccentric microlens array, similar to that used on the M8/M9.
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Old 01-25-2011   #85
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The tweet mentioned above, complete with Russell Peters reference.

The Windows 7 ad mentioned above, and why Frankie is owed an apology.
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Old 01-25-2011   #86
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The tweet mentioned above, complete with Russell Peters reference.

The Windows 7 ad mentioned above, and why Frankie is owed an apology.
What would I apologize for? I asked him nicely to stop posting the phrase. I don't watch TV, RFF is an international forum where Microsoft doesn't advertise in every country even if I did, and once you post a "joke" more than 3-4x it starts to get old.

I was pretty sure it wasn't authorized. I wonder what in the world Fuji Norway was thinking? One would imagine to check with Fuji HQ before giving a no-holds-barred preview with an out of date prototype. Wonder if someone was trying to make a point or get even for something?
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Old 01-25-2011   #87
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He wasn't making a joke, he was making a point using the tools at his disposal. You misunderstood/overreacted. This is a forum full of kind, sensible people. Kind, sensible people occasionally apologize for misunderstandings.

But it's up to you. I can't say I'm that bothered either way. I appreciate both your contributions to this forum.
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Old 01-25-2011   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tapesonthefloor View Post
He wasn't making a joke, he was making a point using the tools at his disposal. You misunderstood/overreacted. This is a forum full of kind, sensible people. Kind, sensible people occasionally apologize for misunderstandings.

But it's up to you. I can't say I'm that bothered either way. I appreciate both your contributions to this forum.
Well I'm sorry I didn't get it, because if I had known the reference, it wouldn't be so bothersome.
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Old 01-25-2011   #89
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Interesting follow up quote by the Norwegian guy:

I haven't played around much with a DP1, but I did play a bit with a pre-production X1, which was painfully slow. The X100 felt MUCH more responsive. When I said the AF wasn't too fast, I meant that compared to the best enthusiast/semipro dSLRs. I'd say the X100 AF is at least on a par with Oly's E-P1 etc, and I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out to be faster in the end product. Fujifilm has previously promised an AF-speed of 0,16 sec on the X100, which is the same as on their F300 EXR (even though X100 won't have the hybrid AF from the F300 EXR).
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hmmm
Old 01-25-2011   #90
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hmmm

So Far, I like what I see...

The IQ is good...

But what is also very important to me is the dynamic range...

I want to see RAW!

RAW RAW RAW RAW RAW RAW RAW RAW RAW RAW RAW RAW RAW RAW!!!!!
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Old 01-25-2011   #91
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Realize that the majority of DSLR owners are novice amateurs ....
Well then they're not the "thoughtful photographers" I was talking about. I was thinking serious amateurs and/or professionals.

Time will tell if Fuji has this camera dialed in or not, but IF they do, then it's appeal is going to be broader than "niche." Semi-serious amateurs; pros tired or carrying a Canikon on vacation; retro fetishists; the shiny-new-object lovers. This camera crosses a bunch of lines.
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Old 01-25-2011   #92
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I see a quaint problem with this camera and that's that in the hands of a professional photographer he will just be another voyeur in the crowd with a point and shoot digicam. In some situations this is great but not all where sometimes the presence of a DSLR lets people know your purpose and you are given the space you require accordingly.

That last paragraph is slightly tongue in cheek ... but it's also partially true.
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Old 01-25-2011   #93
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Wow, there is some softness in the corners, as well as chromatic aberration. I wonder if they made too many IQ sacrifices for the sake of a compact lens, a la the Olympus XA. This is taken from a post of Aetius's on dpreview.com, the preceding number being the ISO:

200: http://images.gfx.no/787/787627/fuji...0_hk_00200.jpg
400: http://images.gfx.no/787/787628/fuji...0_hk_00400.jpg
800: http://images.gfx.no/787/787629/fuji...0_hk_00800.jpg
1600: http://images.gfx.no/787/787630/fuji...0_hk_01600.jpg
3200: http://images.gfx.no/787/787631/fuji...0_hk_03200.jpg
6400: http://images.gfx.no/787/787632/fuji...0_hk_06400.jpg
12800: http://images.gfx.no/787/787633/fuji...0_hk_12800.jpg
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Old 01-25-2011   #94
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I photograph gallery openings for an educational arts institute occasionally and I usually encounter patrons with point and shoots throughout the evening. When I had the M8 they seemed oblivious to suddenly stepping in front of me as I was about to take a shot but since switching to a D700 it just doesn't happen ... ever!

I reckon the Fuji would be perfect for these events because I currently use the Nikon with a 35mm f2 and 3200 and sometimes 6400 ISO ... so it would do exactly what the D700 does at a fraction of the size and weight. (and cost)

Maybe I could hang a hollowed out DSLR around my neck as a decoy!

Cheers ...
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Last edited by Brian Sweeney : 01-26-2011 at 08:13.
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Old 01-25-2011   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tapesonthefloor View Post
Wow, there is some softness in the corners, as well as chromatic aberration. I wonder if they made too many IQ sacrifices for the sake of a compact lens, a la the Olympus XA. This is taken from a post of Aetius's on dpreview.com, the preceding number being the ISO:
Sorry, Im not seeing it. I mean, I see the presence of what you are mentioning, but I am not seeing it at a worrisome or problematic setting. The CA lightroom will easily cleanup, and the corner softness looks negligible. That iso 6400 is literally jaw-dropping in terms of cleanness and details.

If anything, these examples have made me want the camera more. Coming from a 5D these have both less noise, and seemingly sharper resolving power.

Last edited by videogamemaker : 01-25-2011 at 14:32.
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Old 01-25-2011   #96
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I'm not saying the pro look doesn't work or that professionals don't need a nice DSLR, I'm just saying that I think a lot of soccer dads buy a DSLR aspirationally.

No intent to offend actual professionals.

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Old 01-25-2011   #97
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Yes, but they don't have a (potentially) great viewfinder system, fast lens, lots of manual adjustments on the outside of the camera... etc.. The Fuji, I believe, will definitely be seen as something special in the development of useful digital cameras.
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Old 01-25-2011   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith View Post
I see a quaint problem with this camera and that's that in the hands of a professional photographer he will just be another voyeur in the crowd with a point and shoot digicam. In some situations this is great but not all where sometimes the presence of a DSLR lets people know your purpose and you are given the space you require accordingly.

That last paragraph is slightly tongue in cheek ... but it's also partially true.
Glad it was tongue and cheek, cause there'd be a lot of wjhizzed off M8-M9 guys out there reading this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by videogamemaker View Post
Interesting follow up quote by the Norwegian guy:

I haven't played around much with a DP1, but I did play a bit with a pre-production X1, which was painfully slow. The X100 felt MUCH more responsive. When I said the AF wasn't too fast, I meant that compared to the best enthusiast/semipro dSLRs. I'd say the X100 AF is at least on a par with Oly's E-P1 etc, and I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out to be faster in the end product. Fujifilm has previously promised an AF-speed of 0,16 sec on the X100, which is the same as on their F300 EXR (even though X100 won't have the hybrid AF from the F300 EXR).
I pray that the X100's AF is better than the E-P1. I recall the AF speed on the E-P1 was one of it's biggest complaints/drawbacks.
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Old 01-25-2011   #99
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Originally Posted by tapesonthefloor View Post
Wow, there is some softness in the corners, as well as chromatic aberration. I wonder if they made too many IQ sacrifices for the sake of a compact lens, a la the Olympus XA. This is taken from a post of Aetius's on dpreview.com, the preceding number being the ISO:

200: http://images.gfx.no/787/787627/fuji...0_hk_00200.jpg
400: http://images.gfx.no/787/787628/fuji...0_hk_00400.jpg
800: http://images.gfx.no/787/787629/fuji...0_hk_00800.jpg
1600: http://images.gfx.no/787/787630/fuji...0_hk_01600.jpg
3200: http://images.gfx.no/787/787631/fuji...0_hk_03200.jpg
6400: http://images.gfx.no/787/787632/fuji...0_hk_06400.jpg
12800: http://images.gfx.no/787/787633/fuji...0_hk_12800.jpg
From those samples, the lens looks really good. Typically any lens is going to have some minor faults wide open.

Those samples are crazy crazy crazy. Looks like it blows my 5d into the weeds for noise performance.
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Old 01-25-2011   #100
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I pray that the X100's AF is better than the E-P1. I recall the AF speed on the E-P1 was one of it's biggest complaints/drawbacks.
Actually on current firmware the e-p1 is quite fast. Faster than any of the small sensored compacts like g11/g12/s95/lx5 etc.
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Old 01-25-2011   #101
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What Fujiguys actually tweeted about Norwegian review was:
"Fujiguys: #Fuji X100 review from Norwegian website is unauthorized by Tokyo. Somebody's gonna get a hurt, real bad...."
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Old 01-25-2011   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quash View Post
What Fujiguys actually tweeted about Norwegian review was:
"Fujiguys: #Fuji X100 review from Norwegian website is unauthorized by Tokyo. Somebody's gonna get a hurt, real bad...."
Pity, because the sample images show amazing noise performance and that it has a great lens... Makes me even more excited considering it's without a doubt a barely functioning test mule!
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Old 01-25-2011   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fdigital View Post
From those samples, the lens looks really good. Typically any lens is going to have some minor faults wide open.
Those samples were shot at /5.6.
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Old 01-25-2011   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tapesonthefloor View Post
Those samples were shot at ƒ/5.6.
Not those ones - they're sharp as a tack.

These ones (f/2) -

http://images.gfx.no/786/786608/DSCF3373.JPG.jpg
http://images.gfx.no/786/786602/DSCF3365.JPG.jpg
http://images.gfx.no/786/786600/DSCF3362.JPG.jpg
http://images.gfx.no/786/786601/DSCF3364.JPG.jpg

Reminds me of my zeiss 35mm f2 distagon, but the fujinon seems less harsh in rendition.
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Old 01-25-2011   #105
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Quote:
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Not those ones - they're sharp as a tack.

These ones (f/2) -

http://images.gfx.no/786/786608/DSCF3373.JPG.jpg
http://images.gfx.no/786/786602/DSCF3365.JPG.jpg
http://images.gfx.no/786/786600/DSCF3362.JPG.jpg
http://images.gfx.no/786/786601/DSCF3364.JPG.jpg

Reminds me of my zeiss 35mm f2 distagon, but the fujinon seems less harsh in rendition.
I wonder which color mode those images were taken with as the X100 is suppose to replicate Fuji's films, ec, Provia, Sensia, Velvia and etc...
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Old 01-25-2011   #106
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The third one looks really good. The depth of field must be pretty narrow and the corners are beyond the primary focus distance.
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Old 01-25-2011   #107
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I wonder which color mode those images were taken with as the X100 is suppose to replicate Fuji's films, ec, Provia, Sensia, Velvia and etc...
It was apparently a barely working body so probably none of the above. The images look completely unsharpened to me.
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Old 01-26-2011   #108
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Those samples were shot at ƒ/5.6.
That corner softness, while regrettable, is not that big a deal. I took the one of the Trees and snow with winding path into photoshop and went through my normal sharpening procedures. In an image like that I might crop off just a little of the upper edges, but most of the time the extreme corners are either out of focus background, or sky that doesn't matter. The few times there is something like a tree or wire that shows off this corner softness, the rest of the image is plenty sharp to crop away a little if you need flawless edge to edges sharpness.

I see it, but it doesn't worry me. That is one aspect though that I doubt will improve at all by launch, since it's related to the lens design.

Anyone else notice any vignetting? Me neither! Seems to be none whatsoever.


Quote:
Originally Posted by fdigital View Post
From those samples, the lens looks really good. Typically any lens is going to have some minor faults wide open.

Those samples are crazy crazy crazy. Looks like it blows my 5d into the weeds for noise performance.
I know, right? That ISO 6400 looks like 1600 on the 5D. I asked the reviewer by email if he had any low light shots, but he said no because it was too cold out at night, haha. I did however take a few of them and increase exposure 4+ stops and didn't notice any banding, even on the 6400 shot. Noise? yes. Banding? no.

Glad I saved all the example images, as they've been removed from the article. Seems the links still work though, which I believe most are in this thread.

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Old 01-26-2011   #109
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Originally Posted by tapesonthefloor View Post
Wow, there is some softness in the corners, as well as chromatic aberration. I wonder if they made too many IQ sacrifices for the sake of a compact lens, a la the Olympus XA.
A little too soon to jump to conclusion based on unauthorized photos from a barely working camera.

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Old 01-26-2011   #110
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Glad I saved all the example images, as they've been removed from the article. Seems the links still work though, which I believe most are in this thread.
All (most?) of the links seem to be down now, too. I didn't save the full versions of the en plein air sample images, but I do have all the comparison zooms (motherboard, garbage bin) archived if anyone wants them.
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Old 01-26-2011   #111
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I got to this thread a bit late. If anyone can point to a mirror I'd be much obliged.
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Old 01-26-2011   #112
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Here is a rough imgur gallery of the samples and comparisons:

http://imgur.com/a/rwm7f#49JK7

Let me know if that doesn't work. The order's a mess, but they're all appropriately labeled.
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Old 01-26-2011   #113
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The jog dial is for adjusting the Fn setting, as I've said multiple times. It's very unlikely it will be initially set to adjust zone focusing, and from what's been released so far, I don't think zone focusing presets will be possible with any button combo on the X100.
I had long ago joked with other posters that I had committed the X100 specs to memory...if not perfect memory. I love a link to someplace where your remarks originate.

All we know so far is that the <Fn> button can be used to call up a favourite menu function...and default set to ISO choices [thus also user assignable].

I have never read anywhere since Photokina at day-zero that the "convenient command lever" [Fuji] or now called "jog" lever [dpreview] is dedicated to, or locked-step with the <Fn> button.

Supposed the jog lever is so lock-linked, but if within the menu there is a preset focal distance option...or other multiple-choice options...wouldn't the idea still work?

[I, for one, is not prone to frequent ISO changes.]

Zone focusing is really just causing the lens motorized IF sub-system to set the lens at a prescribed encoder position...thereby providing the desired DoF within an f-stop...why wouldn't it work?

See also: http://www.rangefinderforum.com/foru...29#post1505329
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Old 01-26-2011   #114
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Thanks! High iso quality looks great.
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Old 01-26-2011   #115
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I had long ago joked with other posters that I had committed the X100 specs to memory...if not perfect memory. I love a link to someplace where your remarks originate.

All we know so far is that the <Fn> button can be used to call up a favourite menu function...and default set to ISO choices [thus also user assignable].

I have never read anywhere since Photokina at day-zero that the "convenient command lever" [Fuji] or now called "jog" lever [dpreview] is dedicated to, or locked-step with the <Fn> button.

Supposed the jog lever is so lock-linked, but if within the menu there is a preset focal distance option...or other multiple-choice options...wouldn't the idea still work?

[I, for one, is not prone to frequent ISO changes.]

Zone focusing is really just causing the lens motorized IF sub-system to set the lens at a prescribed encoder position...thereby providing the desired DoF within an f-stop...why wouldn't it work?

See also: http://www.rangefinderforum.com/foru...29#post1505329
I know what zone focusing is, and how it would work with the X100.

How about this. If the jog dial does not adjust the Fn commands, I will buy you your filter adapter ring for the X100. If it doesn't, you have to buy me mine.

It doesn't matter if it wasn't listed *specifically* to adjust ISO. It has been listed as adjusting various commands. The Fn button has been listed to bring up various options. The jog dial is where Nikon and most other camera manufacturers put the most used dial. There is no other camera function it could be for other than to adjust the Fn commands. It is closer and more likely than the wheel, and the wheel has definite other labels and design wise will be for the LCD menu diving and selecting.

You're just being pendantic to say "it hasn't been announced, it *could* be the Fn controls, or it could be something else". It is.

Even 5 seconds of thought and reference of all past camera designs points to it.
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Old 01-26-2011   #116
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For those who like to use X100 for street photography, auto ISO with minimum shutter speed would be more useful than a dedicated ISO button. Set the minimum shutter speed to 1/250, set the max ISO to whichever you feel is the peak in IQ and then just shoot like there is no tomorrow.
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Old 01-26-2011   #117
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Originally Posted by GSNfan View Post
For those who like to use X100 for street photography, auto ISO with minimum shutter speed would be more useful than a dedicated ISO button. Set the minimum shutter speed to 1/250, set the max ISO to whichever you feel is the peak in IQ and then just shoot like there is no tomorrow.
I agree, and I'm hoping for auto ISO with a maximum limit setting. I asked the Norwegian reviewer, and tweeted this question to Fujiguys, but they said they weren't allowed to answer, and the reviewer said he didn't see that option in his firmware, but that it looked extremely unfinished and could easily have it in the final version.

If there is an auto-ISO, I won't ever have to touch anything but the manual controls, which would be sweet.

*edit* this looks promising! From the S5, the last fuji large sensor camera:

Fujifilm S5 Pro Auto ISO
The Auto ISO is used to set a lower limit in regard to shutter speed and an upper limit in regard to the ISO.

The S200EXR, one of their most recent cameras, has auto ISO with user definable upper and lower limits too.

Welp, looks like it's very likely they will include this in the X100 too.

Last edited by videogamemaker : 01-26-2011 at 09:28.
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Old 01-26-2011   #118
Frankie
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Originally Posted by videogamemaker View Post
I know what zone focusing is, and how it would work with the X100.

How about this. If the jog dial does not adjust the Fn commands, I will buy you your filter adapter ring for the X100. If it doesn't, you have to buy me mine.

It doesn't matter if it wasn't listed *specifically* to adjust ISO. It has been listed as adjusting various commands. The Fn button has been listed to bring up various options. The jog dial is where Nikon and most other camera manufacturers put the most used dial. There is no other camera function it could be for other than to adjust the Fn commands. It is closer and more likely than the wheel, and the wheel has definite other labels and design wise will be for the LCD menu diving and selecting.

You're just being pendantic to say "it hasn't been announced, it *could* be the Fn controls, or it could be something else". It is.

Even 5 seconds of thought and reference of all past camera designs points to it.
Allow me to repeat the question:

Supposed the jog lever is so lock-linked, but if within the menu there is a preset focal distance option...or other multiple-choice options...wouldn't the idea still work?
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Old 01-26-2011   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by videogamemaker View Post
I agree, and I'm hoping for auto ISO with a maximum limit setting. I asked the Norwegian reviewer, and tweeted this question to Fujiguys, but they said they weren't allowed to answer, and the reviewer said he didn't see that option in his firmware, but that it looked extremely unfinished and could easily have it in the final version.

If there is an auto-ISO, I won't ever have to touch anything but the manual controls, which would be sweet.

*edit* this looks promising! From the S5, the last fuji large sensor camera:

Fujifilm S5 Pro Auto ISO
The Auto ISO is used to set a lower limit in regard to shutter speed and an upper limit in regard to the ISO.

The S200EXR, one of their most recent cameras, has auto ISO with user definable upper and lower limits too.

Welp, looks like it's very likely they will include this in the X100 too.
Almost all of digital cameras have auto ISO, so I'm sure X100 would have that option as well, the only issue is that their minimum shutter speed is usually 1/60 which is not fast enough. On the other hand you can also set the min shutter speed to 1/30 and get moving objects slightly blurred and stationery objects in full focus.

Maybe while you're waiting for X100, pick a cheap fixed lens RF and a role of film, it would be good practice.
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Old 01-26-2011   #120
Frankie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GSNfan View Post
Almost all of digital cameras have auto ISO, so I'm sure X100 would have that option as well, the only issue is that their minimum shutter speed is usually 1/60 which is not fast enough.......
An alternative would be auto-ISO with low, medium, and high range options. Easy enough to implement in the firmware but more buttons to push...

Hey, hey, hey..., why not use the Fn+jog to do just that.
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