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Old 01-26-2011   #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankie View Post
Allow me to repeat the question:

Supposed the jog lever is so lock-linked, but if within the menu there is a preset focal distance option...or other multiple-choice options...wouldn't the idea still work?
Of course. But seeing as this is at least partially marketed toward the retro nostalgic, rangefinder, street-shooter, don't you think zone focusing presets would have been mentioned by now?

It might be included, it might not. I'd say my personal expectations are 60% not, 40% yes. If it's in, it would most likely be selectable via the jog dial.

What I am certain of is that jog dial being how you adjust the Fn button settings. like 99% certain.
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Old 01-26-2011   #122
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Originally Posted by GSNfan View Post
Almost all of digital cameras have auto ISO, so I'm sure X100 would have that option as well, the only issue is that their minimum shutter speed is usually 1/60 which is not fast enough. On the other hand you can also set the min shutter speed to 1/30 and get moving objects slightly blurred and stationery objects in full focus.

Maybe while you're waiting for X100, pick a cheap fixed lens RF and a role of film, it would be good practice.
My 5D doesn't. :-( It also doesn't have the ability to turn off the fake 1/3 stop ISO settings, something my 40D I traded up from did have.

If you think about it, it makes sense now not to have a dedicated ISO dial, since I bet they believe most people will be using auto-ISO. Shutter speed and aperture is adjusted much more often from shot to shot than ISO, even if it's left in manual mode.

Last edited by videogamemaker : 01-26-2011 at 09:55.
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Old 01-26-2011   #123
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Originally Posted by videogamemaker View Post
Of course. But seeing as this is at least partially marketed toward the retro nostalgic, rangefinder, street-shooter, don't you think zone focusing presets would have been mentioned by now?

It might be included, it might not. I'd say my personal expectations are 60% not, 40% yes. If it's in, it would most likely be selectable via the jog dial.

What I am certain of is that jog dial being how you adjust the Fn button settings. like 99% certain.
My interest is not nostalgic, street shooting, or defending the RF faith...

In fact I had posted several alternative methods for zone focusing, including enhancing the unmarked lens ring.

Fuji offered at Day-zero a virtual "focus scale + DoF" in the O/EVF and LCD, it didn't take me "5 seconds" to see that, but unappreciated by many in all the excitement.

Fuji had neglected listing many important aspects of X100 until responding to "inputs" in their web site much later. Fuji has not still, hinted, published or otherwise leaked the menu content and architecture...likely because being finalized.

Using the Fn+jog for eye-level O/EVF adjustment is good for shooting-related functions. Zone focusing immediately came to mind.

A very disappointing and lazy way of dealing with the Fn button is simply use the Fn button for direct accessing a favourite menu item for immediate display in the LCD...say ISO...and use the 4-way back dial for selection...... [I dearly hope not.]

Last edited by Frankie : 01-26-2011 at 11:29.
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Old 01-26-2011   #124
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Originally Posted by Frankie View Post
My interest is not nostalgic, street shooting, or defending the RF faith...

Using the Fn+jog for eye-level O/EVF adjustment is good for shooting-related functions. Zone focusing immediately came to mind.

A very disappointing and lazy way of dealing with the Fn button is simply use the Fn button for direct accessing a favourite menu item...say ISO...and use the 4-way back dial for selection...... [I dearly hope not.]
That is why I clearly used the word "partially" to get you to think about their marketing concerns. Snap to zone focusing is part of the Ricoh marketing material, it would make sense to included it in the X100 marketing material based in part in how and who they market it to.

Using the 4-way would indeed be dumb, which is why it's so unlikely, and then it would leave the jog dial to be truly vestigial, yet closer to where the user's thumb would be.
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Old 01-26-2011   #125
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Personally, I would want the jog dial DEFAULT setting to be the selector of the preset manual focus distances WHEN the camera is set to manual focus.
Pushing the jog dial left or right would increment/decrement the hard coded distances, i.e. 1m, 2m, 3m etc and would be viewable via the viewfinder. PRESSING the jog dial sets the distance. Any inadvertent nudge of the jog dial would display the change but not PROGRAM the change. After a few seconds, if the jog dial is not PRESSED to enter the 'new' setting then the distance displayed reverts to the programmed setting.
Perhaps while in MANUAL focus mode, pressing the fn button would change the function of the jog dial to an iso selector.
Will there be user customization of the fn/jog dial interface?
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Old 01-26-2011   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougFord View Post
Personally, I would want the jog dial DEFAULT setting to be the selector of the preset manual focus distances WHEN the camera is set to manual focus.
Pushing the jog dial left or right would increment/decrement the hard coded distances, i.e. 1m, 2m, 3m etc and would be viewable via the viewfinder. PRESSING the jog dial sets the distance. Any inadvertent nudge of the jog dial would display the change but not PROGRAM the change. After a few seconds, if the jog dial is not PRESSED to enter the 'new' setting then the distance displayed reverts to the programmed setting.
Perhaps while in MANUAL focus mode, pressing the fn button would change the function of the jog dial to an iso selector.
Will there be user customization of the fn/jog dial interface?
Really not clear at this point. That I can recall, only the ISO has been listed as changeable by the Fn key (but I'm sure Frankie will correct me if I'm remembering wrong, as I'd like him to). It might only be a list of normal things like ISO, WB, Movie mode (as Dpreview said it's accessible through the Fn key. Or it could be that it works like a customizable menu where you can put any setting you want into it via the normal menu, then it scrolls through those things.
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Old 01-26-2011   #127
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Originally Posted by videogamemaker View Post
Or it could be that it works like a customizable menu where you can put any setting you want into it via the normal menu, then it scrolls through those things.
This would be my preference. The jog dial defaulting to hard coded distances while the cameras dedicated focus mode switch is in the MF position.
Of the hard coded choices available; default would be MF followed by the zone focus presets. MF designating that the lens focus ring is activated.
This 'focus mode' menu would only be available and visible to the user when the dedicated focus mode switch was set to MF.
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Old 01-26-2011   #128
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Originally Posted by videogamemaker View Post
......I can recall, only the ISO has been listed as changeable by the Fn key (but I'm sure Frankie will correct me if I'm remembering wrong, as I'd like him to).......
The Fujiguys say:

"Fuji X100 function button options, iso (default), preview depth of field, imag size, quality, dynamic range, film sim, nd filter, af, movie"
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Old 01-26-2011   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankie View Post
The Fujiguys say:

"Fuji X100 function button options, iso (default), preview depth of field, imag size, quality, dynamic range, film sim, nd filter, af, movie"
Obviously they could add it later than the firmware in the version Fujiguys have, but wouldn't you think they'd put zone focus snap on that list if it were there?
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Old 01-26-2011   #130
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Obviously they could add it later than the firmware in the version Fujiguys have, but wouldn't you think they'd put zone focus snap on that list if it were there?
At Day-zero, I had an urgent need to ascertain that MF is via the lens ring [could be only decorative], and not some weird method like my old Canon G7. You would think Fuji would say that...but no, not until much later. No journalist at Photokina thought to say that either, except a Spanish magazine.

As to the Fujiguys, I took what they had to say with a big grain of salt...self-contradiction is bad in reporting.

If you look at the functions they say assignable to <Fn>, some are read-only [DoF], some require user selection [ISO, image size...].

I classify some camera functions as mission-critical [best assigned to VF, thus Fn+jog], and others as set-up [assignable to LCD+4-way dial].

The debate is not whether I like certain functions, but rather exploring the scanty product info we do have [salt and all]. I have no desire to prove anyone right or wrong.

In that regard, Fuji had compounded the problem of an info-gap. A simple feature listing would do wonders...even notated as "to be finalized" is better than nothing.

I have been doing that since Day-zero...just so to satisfy my own curiosity.
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Old 01-26-2011   #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankie View Post
At Day-zero, I had an urgent need to ascertain that MF is via the lens ring [could be only decorative], and not some weird method like my old Canon G7. You would think Fuji would say that...but no, not until much later. No journalist at Photokina thought to say that either, except a Spanish magazine.

As to the Fujiguys, I took what they had to say with a big grain of salt...self-contradiction is bad in reporting.

If you look at the functions they say assignable to <Fn>, some are read-only [DoF], some require user selection [ISO, image size...].

I classify some camera functions as mission-critical [best assigned to VF, thus Fn+jog], and others as set-up [assignable to LCD+4-way dial].

The debate is not whether I like certain functions, but rather exploring the scanty product info we do have [salt and all]. I have no desire to prove anyone right or wrong.

In that regard, Fuji had compounded the problem of an info-gap. A simple feature listing would do wonders...even notated as "to be finalized" is better than nothing.

I have been doing that since Day-zero...just so to satisfy my own curiosity.
You're right. We'll have to wait and see.
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X100 Low light AF speed BLUES
Old 01-26-2011   #132
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X100 Low light AF speed BLUES

I love almost everything I have read about the X-100, except:

1) A 20th of december interview in a spanish webpage with a FujiFilm engineer revealed the X100 team is considering developing a technology that will include both the hybrid focusing system of the new FinePix F300EXR and the phase detection currently in used in the X100:

http://www.quesabesde.com/noticias/f...awahara,1_7074

I may be reading too much into it, but it got me thinking the team saw room for improvement in the AF area...

2) "(AF speed) is kinda slow, to be honest, and not at all the responsiveness I'm hoping for in the final version, but I think this is one area where much will be done to improve performance towards launch." Hands on X-100 camera-reviewer at Akam.no comment on dpreview.com

3) And the thing that struck me the most from that dpreview preview was the realization the X-100 has got a big bright front facing AF assist yellow led... So much for low light candid photography !

Other than an enlargement of the central focusing area, akin to ground glass focusing, the X-100 seems to lack any other focusing aid... I really hope they get it right (they got my 1200$ if it focuses as fast as a 600$ DSLR)... but for $ 1200 Fujifilm might as well have put an active AF system a la Hexar AF in there
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Old 01-26-2011   #133
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Originally Posted by Jorge-AD View Post
2) "(AF speed) is kinda slow, to be honest, and not at all the responsiveness I'm hoping for in the final version, but I think this is one area where much will be done to improve performance towards launch." Hands on X-100 camera-reviewer at Akam.no comment on dpreview.com
He later said that he was referring to the whole firmware of the camera in regards to the responsiveness - being an early test mule. He went as far to say that he had to turn the camera off and on every time he took a shot and the settings would all have been reset. Don't think its a good indication. Also he said the AF was at least as fast as m4/3 cameras.

Quote:
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3) And the thing that struck me the most from that dpreview preview was the realization the X-100 has got a big bright front facing AF assist yellow led... So much for low light candid photography !
In every camera that has one of these you can turn it off.
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Old 01-27-2011   #134
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Originally Posted by fdigital View Post

In every camera that has one of these you can turn it off.
And even if it didn't, a piece of black gaffer's tape fixes it.

Honestly AF speed is the one area I am worried about. Could be good, could be sucky, we'll have to wait and see.
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Old 01-27-2011   #135
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Quote:
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And even if it didn't, a piece of black gaffer's tape fixes it.

Honestly AF speed is the one area I am worried about. Could be good, could be sucky, we'll have to wait and see.
My good and trusty old F11 Finepixes (yes, more than one...) has the same green light to help to focus but you can turn it off, it takes 0,5 more to focus (or put it on High speed shooting - in focus from 3mt to infinite) and has the AUTO ISO too - in the Fn button - see, has been there since ever... it's their heritage.

Still saving for it... and salivating too!
In fact I wondering if I put one of my Nikon F's, D' or S's for sale...

Nah! just keep saving.
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Old 01-27-2011   #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by videogamemaker View Post
And even if it didn't, a piece of black gaffer's tape fixes it.

Honestly AF speed is the one area I am worried about. Could be good, could be sucky, we'll have to wait and see.
I'm going to take an educated guess here and say it's going to be about the same as a gf1/gf2 with a fast lens like the 20mm f1.7. It's using the same focusing system and they haven't made any noise about it, so it's not going to be DSLR fast, but will be easily sufficient for most uses. So basically not high end DSLR fast by any means, but useably fast. I used an e-p1 w/17mm pancake for a while and was satisfied with how it focused on the latest firmware - even in low light... I can't really see the x100 being much faster, and I doubt it will be any slower.
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Old 01-27-2011   #137
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Originally Posted by videogamemaker View Post
Honestly AF speed is the one area I am worried about.
I wish it didnt have AF at all, AF is the only reason why it doesnt have a mechanical focus ring. And with such a wide lens, AF is as useful to me as A/C is useful to eskimos.
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Old 01-27-2011   #138
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I wish it didnt have AF at all, AF is the only reason why it doesnt have a mechanical focus ring.
Doesn't it?
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Old 01-27-2011   #139
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I hope you are right fdigital... I can live with that.
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Old 01-27-2011   #140
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Doesn't it?
I think he means "mechanically coupled". It's a physical ring, but it's fly-by-wire, and can be changed to rotate CW or CCW depending on your preference.

I'm glad it has AF. Different strokes for different folks. :-)
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Old 01-27-2011   #141
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I'm going to take an educated guess here and say it's going to be about the same as a gf1/gf2 with a fast lens like the 20mm f1.7. It's using the same focusing system and they haven't made any noise about it, so it's not going to be DSLR fast, but will be easily sufficient for most uses. So basically not high end DSLR fast by any means, but useably fast. I used an e-p1 w/17mm pancake for a while and was satisfied with how it focused on the latest firmware - even in low light... I can't really see the x100 being much faster, and I doubt it will be any slower.
Whoah! Is this representative in your mind of the AF speed? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MP5Gi...eature=related

That's delightfully quick. I can totally live with that.
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Old 01-27-2011   #142
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I think he means "mechanically coupled".
I've never really understood the crowd of people who want a digital camera, but who want everything about it to be mechanical.
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Old 01-27-2011   #143
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I've never really understood the crowd of people who want a digital camera, but who want everything about it to be mechanical.
Ι dont want a digital camera, I was quite happy when there was a Kodak lab in every corner and Konica/Minolta was still around and servicing cameras and scanners. But since the world has decided that film must die and they are forcing digital cameras on us, they may as well build them properly.

The significance of the mechanical ring is that it has an infinity stop, it doesnt turn perpetually. Which means that it can have a tab, which means that with practice, you can focus a camera by feel without even looking through it. Tabs and distance scales on the lens were there for a reason, not for decoration. They offered options that people actually used. And these people are trying to work out how many options they are willing to give up, with your permission and if you dont mind of course. Because we are a little bit excited, digital technology finally caught up with 1970's camera design and managed to squeeze a viewfinder in a sort of compact camera, woohoo.
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Old 01-27-2011   #144
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I've never really understood the crowd of people who want a digital camera, but who want everything about it to be mechanical.
I think it is the desire for a user interface that makes us feel comfortable.

I'm not sure that a close mimic of a mechanical film camera is all that logical a choice, but I would like focus, shutter speed and aperture where I can see and feel them easily. The standard 35mm film camera interface does a pretty good job of this. It occurs to me that the Rolleiflex TLR interface is almost entirely different, yet it also feels right and is a delight to use.


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Old 01-27-2011   #145
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Ι dont want a digital camera, I was quite happy when there was a Kodak lab in every corner and Konica/Minolta was still around and servicing cameras and scanners. But since the world has decided that film must die and they are forcing digital cameras on us, they may as well build them properly.

The significance of the mechanical ring is that it has an infinity stop, it doesnt turn perpetually. Which means that it can have a tab, which means that with practice, you can focus a camera by feel without even looking through it. Tabs and distance scales on the lens were there for a reason, not for decoration. They offered options that people actually used. And these people are trying to work out how many options they are willing to give up, with your permission and if you dont mind of course. Because we are a little bit excited, digital technology finally caught up with 1970's camera design and managed to squeeze a viewfinder in a sort of compact camera, woohoo.
Sorry, but this post makes you a minority. This means the market for people who want this type of thing are small, and the profit margin on each product sold must be much higher. You need to buy an M8 or M9 or RD-1. Those are your choices (if you want a built in OVF). If you want a much cheaper (new) camera, you will have to deal with popular features that ensure more sales, and thus, that lower price point, such as video, autofocus, and a mini-flash.

I feel perfectly confident in saying that overall sales of the X100 would be less with a mechanically coupled focusing ring and no autofocus (especially since the OVF isn't rangefinder coupled, making manual focusing in OVF mode much harder, if not impossible). So while I am sure you, and many others would prefer it that way, the needs of making a profit and the multitude of people who feel opposite to you about AF are going to win out in product design.
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Old 01-27-2011   #146
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yes I know I am a minority, and quite comfotrable about it so dont feel sorry. I also couldnt care less (with all due respect) about their profit margins and their accounting, not my problem, I dont have shares in Fuji. They gotta do what they gotta do, if they end up making my kind of camera I'll buy it. If not I already have a bucketload of cameras I love, and kodak is still churning out the good stuff
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Old 01-27-2011   #147
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yes I know I am a minority, and quite comfotrable about it so dont feel sorry. I also couldnt care less (with all due respect) about their profit margins and their accounting, not my problem, I dont have shares in Fuji. They gotta do what they gotta do, if they end up making my kind of camera I'll buy it. If not I already have a bucketload of cameras I love, and kodak is still churning out the good stuff
Very well reasoned and articulated sir!
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Old 01-27-2011   #148
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Whoah! Is this representative in your mind of the AF speed? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MP5Gi...eature=related

That's delightfully quick. I can totally live with that.
That there is quicker than my 5d and the d700....

This is more what I was thinking:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uig2uB6LMKE
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Old 01-27-2011   #149
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That there is quicker than my 5d and the d700....

This is more what I was thinking:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uig2uB6LMKE
Still quite reasonable. Now I'm less worried.
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Old 01-27-2011   #150
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When using the OVF to photograph moving subjects, the picture will only match what was seen through the OVF if there is absolutely minimum shutter lag and AF lock delay. Otherwise with AF lock delay, which is inevitable, combined with shutter lag, there will be a discrepancy with was seen and framed through the OVF and what was captured in the final picture... Anyone who has used a auxiliary VF with a digital camera might know what I'm talking about.

So, for X100's OVF to be actually effective like a RF, there has to be absolute minimum shutter lag (on par with high-end DSLRs) and minimum Af lock delay, or for that matter a really easy to do MF, otherwise the OVF image is never going to match what ends up in the final image... This is not a big deal when photographing stationery subjects, but for street scene and classic RF style of shooting, X100 really has to be fast otherwise it will lose its trump card, which is the OVF functionality.
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Old 01-27-2011   #151
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When using the OVF to photograph moving subjects, the picture will only match what was seen through the OVF if there is absolutely minimum shutter lag and AF lock delay. Otherwise with AF lock delay, which is inevitable, combined with shutter lag, there will be a discrepancy with was seen and framed through the OVF and what was captured in the final picture... Anyone who has used a auxiliary VF with a digital camera might know what I'm talking about.

So, for X100's OVF to be actually effective like a RF, there has to be absolute minimum shutter lag (on par with high-end DSLRs) and minimum Af lock delay, or for that matter a really easy to do MF, otherwise the OVF image is never going to match what ends up in the final image... This is not a big deal when photographing stationery subjects, but for street scene and classic RF style of shooting, X100 really has to be fast otherwise it will lose its trump card, which is the OVF functionality.
All signs point to every possible delay happening at the half shutter press. Once the shutter is half pressed, the lag from half press to full press is .01 seconds. That should be fast enough for anyone.

Plus, my 5D and many other cameras have a "fire without AF lock" option, which means it takes the photo when you fully depress the shutter, regardless of if the AF has locked or not. Meaning you always get the image, sometimes blurry, but it's there no matter what, right when you clicked.

For street shooting, I imagine you might need to do a little pre-focusing or zone focusing with the half press, then track the composition with the OVF, and when it's where you want, fully press (the .01 second lag).
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Old 01-27-2011   #152
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That there is quicker than my 5d and the d700....

This is more what I was thinking:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uig2uB6LMKE
Both cameras focus faster than me fussing with an RF patch. The only thing faster is not focusing at all...otherwise called preset zone focusing.

I can live with doing zone focusing in the X100 using MF and the "focal distance + DoF" scale displayable in the LCD or in the O/EVF. Also I will have no hesitation of enhancing the unmarked focusing ring for a couple of chosen f-stops...takes 5 minutes.

I don't mind using AFL and recompose. The button is in the correct place anyway.

Still, if Fuji opt to also enable a preset focal distance function to the Fn+jog combo, I will be delighted.
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Old 01-27-2011   #153
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Both cameras focus faster than me fussing with an RF patch. The only thing faster is not focusing at all...otherwise called preset zone focusing.

I can live with doing zone focusing in the X100 using MF and the "focal distance + DoF" scale displayable in the LCD or in the O/EVF. Also I will have no hesitation of enhancing the unmarked focusing ring for a couple of chosen f-stops...takes 5 minutes.

I don't mind using AFL and recompose. The button is in the correct place anyway.

Still, if Fuji opt to also enable a preset focal distance function to the Fn+jog combo, I will be delighted.
How will marking the lens work? Many focus by wire rings can turn indefinitely in either direction, wouldn't it mess up your markings the second you turned "past" the near or far limit?
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Old 01-27-2011   #154
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Originally Posted by videogamemaker View Post
All signs point to every possible delay happening at the half shutter press. Once the shutter is half pressed, the lag from half press to full press is .01 seconds. That should be fast enough for anyone.

Plus, my 5D and many other cameras have a "fire without AF lock" option, which means it takes the photo when you fully depress the shutter, regardless of if the AF has locked or not. Meaning you always get the image, sometimes blurry, but it's there no matter what, right when you clicked.

For street shooting, I imagine you might need to do a little pre-focusing or zone focusing with the half press, then track the composition with the OVF, and when it's where you want, fully press (the .01 second lag).
I had mentioned in another post that Nikon D3 has a .08 second of shutter lag... Now in case X100 is the first compact that has a shutter lag on D3 scale of digital cameras with 0.01, that would be a paradigm changing innovation, but unfortunately i highly doubt that.

But once again, the AF has to be very fast and accurate for X100 to match the OVF framing. The manual focus option does not look very promising with X100 so AF speed is crucial if someone wants to shoot the lens wide open for moving subjects... But even if one shoots in zone focus to not engage AF, that would mean only shooting at F8 and above to get a decent dof, shooting wide open gets ruled out and so is low light shooting.

But I guess in a nutshell what I'm trying to get at is for X100's OVF to be effective like a RF, it has to have the shutter lag of a Nikon D3 and the AF speed and accuracy of a Nikon D3 as well.
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Old 01-27-2011   #155
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I had mentioned in another post that Nikon D3 has a .08 second of shutter lag... Now in case X100 is the first compact that has a shutter lag on D3 scale of digital cameras with 0.01, that would be a paradigm changing innovation, but unfortunately i highly doubt that.

But once again, the AF has to be very fast and accurate for X100 to match the OVF framing. The manual focus option does not look very promising with X100 so AF speed is crucial if someone wants to shoot the lens wide open for moving subjects... But even if one shoots in zone focus to not engage AF, that would mean only shooting at F8 and above to get a decent dof, shooting wide open gets ruled out and so is low light shooting.

But I guess in a nutshell what I'm trying to get at is for X100's OVF to be effective like a RF, it has to have the shutter lag of a Nikon D3 and the AF speed and accuracy of a Nikon D3 as well.
Well if you're going to doubt their released numbers, there is nothing I can say to convince you. Keep in mind that no modern camera has used an in lens 4 leaf shutter like the X100. It's completely possible they bypassed the previous speeds of huge curtain shutters on a dslr with a mirror that has to move.

The actual AF speed and your shooting style is going to come into play, but I've used a slow focusing lens before on my dslr, and it very rarely gave me trouble with my shooting style.
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Old 01-27-2011   #156
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How will marking the lens work? Many focus by wire rings can turn indefinitely in either direction, wouldn't it mess up your markings the second you turned "past" the near or far limit?
This was what I wrote:
The lens barrel has one fixed red reference mark for the apertures, which can also be used as a reference mark for zone focusing.

The way I would do it is this:
  1. Color-code the aperture numbers. [A tried-and-true method for 3 decades is to fill in the engraved f-numbers with grease pencil then finger rub off the excess. Believe it or not, the fillings rubs off clean with water on a Q-tip.]
  2. Color-code the focusing ring position with corresponding color Sharpies. [The ring has fine gear-like knurls that would protect the colors.] A DoF table will tell you where the sweet spot is.]
  3. Use the focal distance scale in the O/EVF to set the ring position. [At f5.6, the lens will have a DoF from 6~28'; and at f8 from 5~118'...pick the mid-field distances or any personal-biased points would be fine.]
Remembering the DoF numbers is not hard...from "5 or 6' near, to 28' and well beyond"; enough for street candids. How about 5.6~23...5 or 6' near to 23' far, for 5.6 aperture in the 23mm lens. [I use the same method even for lenses with focal distance and DoF markings...just set the lens at the pre-determined distance marking...]

Set camera at manual focus and shoot. Simple really.
It is true the focusing ring might turn and turn if not in MF mode [but might also have a dead-stop]. But given the lens FL and in MF mode, the turn might only be half a 360-degree. Besides, my method is not to use the DoF scale, but use a personal preset focal distance [given a chosen f-stop]
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Old 01-27-2011   #157
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This was what I wrote:
The lens barrel has one fixed red reference mark for the apertures, which can also be used as a reference mark for zone focusing.

The way I would do it is this:
  1. Color-code the aperture numbers. [A tried-and-true method for 3 decades is to fill in the engraved f-numbers with grease pencil then finger rub off the excess. Believe it or not, the fillings rubs off clean with water on a Q-tip.]
  2. Color-code the focusing ring position with corresponding color Sharpies. [The ring has fine gear-like knurls that would protect the colors.] A DoF table will tell you where the sweet spot is.]
  3. Use the focal distance scale in the O/EVF to set the ring position. [At f5.6, the lens will have a DoF from 6~28'; and at f8 from 5~118'...pick the mid-field distances or any personal-biased points would be fine.]
Remembering the DoF numbers is not hard...from "5 or 6' near, to 28' and well beyond"; enough for street candids. How about 5.6~23...5 or 6' near to 23' far, for 5.6 aperture in the 23mm lens. [I use the same method even for lenses with focal distance and DoF markings...just set the lens at the pre-determined distance marking...]

Set camera at manual focus and shoot. Simple really.
It is true the focusing ring might turn and turn if not in MF mode [but might also have a dead-stop]. But given the lens FL and in MF mode, the turn might only be half a 360-degree. Besides, my method is not to use the DoF scale, but use a personal preset focal distance [given a chosen f-stop]
We will have to see if it can rotate indefinitely, but most focus by wire, and even some coupled rings (like on Canon L lenses) can rotate forever.

If that proves to be the case, won't that wreck your lens rings color coding? I knew most of what you wrote, and I can see how that would work on a mechanically coupled focusing ring missing dof markings, but I don't think that works on a ring that is decoupled completely from the mechanism and just provides turn bytes to the focus motor.
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Old 01-27-2011   #158
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We will have to see if it can rotate indefinitely, but most focus by wire, and even some coupled rings (like on Canon L lenses) can rotate forever.

If that proves to be the case, won't that wreck your lens rings color coding? I knew most of what you wrote, and I can see how that would work on a mechanically coupled focusing ring missing dof markings, but I don't think that works on a ring that is decoupled completely from the mechanism and just provides turn bytes to the focus motor.
Further down in the same thread, I wrote:
I do believe the X100 lens is focus-by-wire [and internal], which is another way of saying inside the lens barrel is a rotary encoder with an infinity dead-stop at 12 o'clock position.

When AF is selected, the lens module is controlled by the firmware and focused-by-wire internally without causing the outer focusing ring to also auto-rotate.

When Manual Focus is selected, the encoder position is instantly read and lens immediately refocused [by wire] at whatever focal distance the lens focus ring happened to be at. There after focusing [still by wire] is a direct firmware reaction to new ring position. [I have been using high resolution encoders in my work for 2 decades.]

You can almost see the encoder marking in the lens module picture. [Take apart a computer mouse and look at the turbine-like scroll-wheel encoder.]
And a little later:
Focus-by-wire translates down to the number of encoder counts per complete 360-degree rotation and the thread pitch of the focus drive motor shaft. For example, if the encoder is a 360-count unit, and the thread pitch is 0.5mm, then the internal focus increment will be 0.00138mm per count...1.4u focal distance change per count is very fine, but step-by-step. [I have used encoders as fine as 1200 counts per revolutions...]

In comparison, typical helicoid pitch is very coarse...but supports continuous motion.


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Old 01-27-2011   #159
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It's not me mis-remembering your past posts, it's you not reading what I'm asking. I understand how focus by wire works, the problem is that you are assuming a hard stop at 12 o'clock. The vast majority of focus by wire lenses do not have this feature.

Check this video again: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntdLuTHckPY It looks like he rotates the focusing ring far more than 360 degrees at two different times.

Marks on the focusing ring are going to be useless if there is no hard stop, and all signs point to there not being one.
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Old 01-27-2011   #160
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It's not me mis-remembering your past posts, it's you not reading what I'm asking. I understand how focus by wire works, the problem is that you are assuming a hard stop at 12 o'clock. The vast majority of focus by wire lenses do not have this feature.

Check this video again: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntdLuTHckPY It looks like he rotates the focusing ring far more than 360 degrees at two different times.

Marks on the focusing ring are going to be useless if there is no hard stop, and all signs point to there not being one.
It is really not understanding how an encoder works that caused a lot of questions...you are not the only one in RFF.

Encoders are available in rotary or linear forms. Rotary encoder can only rotate 360-degrees...period.

[Liner encoders are essentially a very fine scale and EXPENSIVE, unlikely being used within a lens, else there will have to be a mechanical coupling between the ring and encoder "read-head"].

In AF mode, rotating the focusing ring around and around means nothing.

In any case, rotating the lens ring around and around simply means restarting at the 0-degree position whether you intend to or not. The 0-degree position can be marked or unmarked, hard-stopped or not. Whether the X100 focusing ring can rotate clockwise or counter-clockwise is immaterial...it is still limited to 360-degrees.

So, all you need to do is to selection clockwise or counter-clockwise mode; set desired focal distances and mark the focusing ring.

And, if the X100 only needs 165-degrees to focus from infinity to near limit, then the firmware can and will have to also place any arbitrary ring position to the nearest effective position [and that was how encoders are reset to zero positions in engineering applications].
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