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Old 02-02-2011   #41
ochong
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Regarding how the information is combined with the optical image...
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Old 02-02-2011   #42
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Cool finder. So that's why people are so exited, I see now! Anybody know if the finder frame covers the entire chip?
A little slow, I just figured out that since the view in the finder comes off the chip, any frameline is a crop of the chip. No framelines would be the full pic. Wonder if you can apply the frameline crop to all raws in fuji's software.

Last edited by Ranchu : 02-02-2011 at 17:35.
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Old 02-02-2011   #43
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A little slow, I just figured out that since the view in the finder comes off the chip, any frameline is a crop of the chip. No framelines would be the full pic. Wonder if you can apply the frameline crop to all raws in fuji's software.
The view in the OVF is independent of the EVF.

The OVF has a larger FoV than the lens and the EVF.

Thus the OVF covers ~26mm lens eqv. with the projected frameline represents ~90% of the camera lens 35mmm eqv. FoV; while the EVF is exactly what the sensor sees.

It helps if you look at some older posts in various threads before posting.
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Old 02-02-2011   #44
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Hey frankie, I can tell you're trying to be helpful. To be honest the viewfinder is the only thing about this camera that even remotely interested me. Thanks for clearing that up. The truth is, if I were shopping for a digital camera, a Rebel would beat this thing easily, DPP is a hell of lot more usable than fuji's raw convertor. But I'm not. Have fun with your new toy!

Last edited by Doug : 02-03-2011 at 18:25. Reason: civility
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Old 02-02-2011   #45
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I I can especially see the DOF scale becoming like 2nd skin, getting used to judging distances and dialing it in fast.
Yeah I think I can live with that too, especially if the distance scale can also been displayed on the lcd. I only need the distance not the total dof, I got that memorised for most lenses I use

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I don't want to take the camera away from my eye to see to change shutter speed or memorize how many clicks I was away from a certain aperture.
There's a tab on the aperture ring, use the camera a couple of weeks straight in manual or shutter priority mode and in the end you'll know your aperture by feel, trust me
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Old 02-02-2011   #46
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Originally Posted by Ranchu View Post
To be honest the viewfinder is the only thing about this camera that even remotely interested me.
To a first approximation, that's how I feel about my M6. Oddly enough, the M6 is my favorite camera ever.

Oh, and one other thing. I'll make a prediction.

If this camera's sensor is only as good as the Sony chip in the D90/K-x, I'll predict that in low light, it will yield better IQ than the M9, provided that the M9 is mounted with a lens of f/1.4 or slower.

Snicker.
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Old 02-03-2011   #47
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I really don't think battery voltage has much to do with it at all. Total number of shots, maybe, but AF speed is doubtful. Especially since several cameras now have improved their AF speed with firmware only, no battery upgrades, there is at least partially the implementation of technique and technology to do with AF speed, rather than raw electrical power.
I completely forgot about that, excellent point.
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Old 02-03-2011   #48
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I based my statement after comparing the voltage of both batteries:

GF1: 7.x V
X100: 3.x V

While the battery of the X100 has to power one and only lens -- compared to the GF1 which has to power many, including zooms --, the GF1 with its 40mm kit lens is optically close to the X100's 35mm (i.e. in the number of elements and size).

Now, I am not a camera engineer so I am definitively out of my lane, yet, I'm pretty sure it's not going to be as fast as the GF1 nor its Pen counterparts. Time will tell.
So if I make a graph with voltage and AF-speed then you say there might be a relation. is it linear? So the Nikon D3 needs probably a 220V battery to be that fast
(just kidding).
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Old 02-03-2011   #49
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Unfortuantely, it just isn't going to happen with a semi-pro digital (electronic) camera.
well it would if they would release a developer's kit for it...

Or simply have an extensive menu for disabling various viewfinder display options. Just a menu to check off the major options. If the software implements the function, it is easy to provide a list of features to NOT enable. Harder to enable a feature that is not implemented.

On the AF speed- on the Olympus EP2- going from firmware rev 1.0 to 1.1 dramatically improved autofocus. SO: Processor speed and firmware is a bigger factor for AF speed than is battery voltage. If you want a higher voltage for some reason, you can always up convert it. I used a DC to DC convertor to drive 400v from a 5v power supply. Not for AF, but for an all optical attenuator.

Last edited by Brian Sweeney : 02-03-2011 at 02:09.
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Old 02-03-2011   #50
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Originally Posted by Brian Sweeney View Post
well it would if they would release a developer's kit for it...

Or simply have an extensive menu for disabling various viewfinder display options. Just a menu to check off the major options. If the software implements the function, it is easy to provide a list of features to NOT enable. Harder to enable a feature that is not implemented.

On the AF speed- on the Olympus EP2- going from firmware rev 1.0 to 1.1 dramatically improved autofocus. SO: Processor speed and firmware is a bigger factor for AF speed than is battery voltage.
I would love an SDK sooooo badly. My husband does small device firmware code, but none of it is encrypted stuff. I bet I could make him create all kinds of goodies were there to be one. I keep pushing him to try to hack the 5D firmware, haha.

Normally the display just has a set of toggles, minimal, and then various additional states till the entire screen is covered. I think the problem comes in designing a menu that has every possible screen overlay as a radio button on/off. Much easier for them to preprogram "states" and let the disp button toggle through them.

That said, I can't really think of anything in the minimal display I would want to hide. I hope the ambient light detector offsets your preferred brightness, ala the ipod/phone/pad. Set the brightness you prefer (in the current lighting setting you are in) then as it alters it, it keeps that offset. It looks a bit bright, and I bet most people objecting to it looking cluttered would mind less as it's dimmed.
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Old 02-03-2011   #51
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Some different images and information, google translate works ok

http://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/r...4.html?ref=rss
Thank you tocalosh for this link!

I analyzed this link using Google Translate, and it contains a rather interesting detail in its menu screenshots:
  • Google-Translate the the bullet points approximately half-way down the page and locate 'The contents of the Shooting Menu (example)'.
  • Go to the second row, and translate the caption for the right-hand image - it reads 'Dynamic range can be extended'!
My biggest grievance with digital as compared to film has always been dynamic range. If there is a digital technology that can deliver as much dynamic range as can be obtained using film, then digital will finally have surpassed film in its last remaining superiuority criterion - DR.

I don't intend to open up a digital vs. film debate, but this detail is just too exciting to omit it in our discussion of the X100.

Can anybody contribute additional detail to this item? What is this function, maybe a rapid-fire HDR bracketing sequence? If so, how fast could it be? Tripod only or possibly suitable for hand-held shots?
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Old 02-03-2011   #52
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Originally Posted by Arjay View Post

Can anybody contribute additional detail to this item? What is this function, maybe a rapid-fire HDR bracketing sequence? If so, how fast could it be? Tripod only or possibly suitable for hand-held shots?
If it works like Sony and other's implementations, it's a jpeg only setting. It affects how the curves are implemented in making the jpeg. It does not make a single raw file have any more DR at any of these settings.

Here it is explained (sort of) for another fuji model.

I could see it working one of two ways.

1. It takes multiple images, stacks them, and creates a jpeg only with more dynamic range than normal. There are a couple of cameras that can do this, and the sweep panorama mode of the x100 proves it has the ability to align images. Something newer cameras can do with hand held multiple exposures combined into 1 final jpeg with less blown highlights and less clipped shadows.

2. It takes one image, but uses a different curve to prioritize the extreme light differences. In a low contrast image this would result in a very flat image, but in a high contrast image, you can get properly exposed sky and shadows.

No matter which way it is, if past camera implementations are anything to go off, you're only going to see these effects in Jpeg output, they don't alter the raw files. With method 1, you would have the higher DR jpeg with multiple raws you could stack on your own the traditional way, and with method 2 you have one raw file to edit as you normally would. Either way the DR of a single raw image is up to the sensor's capabilities, these settings won't change it.

Last edited by videogamemaker : 02-03-2011 at 04:00.
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Old 02-03-2011   #53
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Originally Posted by tom.w.bn View Post
So if I make a graph with voltage and AF-speed then you say there might be a relation. Is it linear? So the Nikon D3 needs probably a 220V battery to be that fast
(just kidding).
I don't know, but the D3's battery is 11.x V

Seriously though, I will be more than happy if the AF speed matches the Ricoh GR D III's (ESPECIALLY in low light)…
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Old 02-03-2011   #54
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Originally Posted by Ranchu View Post
The truth is, if I were shopping for a digital camera, a Rebel would beat this thing easily, DPP is a hell of lot more usable than fuji's raw convertor. But I'm not. Have fun with your new toy!
If you'd be satisfied with a Rebel (nothing wrong with that), you just don't understand the appeal of something like this. For those of us who hate DSLRs, but like a VF, this appears to be a great product.

Last edited by Doug : 02-03-2011 at 18:33. Reason: quote edit
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Old 02-03-2011   #55
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If you'd be satisfied with a Rebel (nothing wrong with that), you just don't understand the appeal of something like this. For those of us who hate DSLRs, but like a VF, this appears to be a great product.
Not only that, but, aside from the fact that I find DPP a soccer mom's toy compared to lightroom, the X100 comes with silkypix, not the Fuji editor. I checked out the silkypix feature list and it looks like it matches up very similarly to Lightroom in function and features. I'm eager to try.

Not to mention that the released images at least noise wise look better than the Rebel's sensor.

Not to mention that many of us professing interest in the X100 already *have* a dslr, and higher level models than the Rebel line.
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Old 02-03-2011   #56
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Not only that, but, aside from the fact that I find DPP a soccer mom's toy compared to lightroom, the X100 comes with silkypix, not the Fuji editor. I checked out the silkypix feature list and it looks like it matches up very similarly to Lightroom in function and features. I'm eager to try.

Not to mention that the released images at least noise wise look better than the Rebel's sensor.

Not to mention that many of us professing interest in the X100 already *have* a dslr, and higher level models than the Rebel line.
Ha, and I consider Lightroom a comical piece of junk.

Both DPP and fuji's processor are designed for accurate color as the goal, they describe the sensor with a look up table (LUT) profile, each pixel is defined on an 'x-y graph' independently of the others. Then this is converted directly into the output space, srgb, Adobe98, etc. That is why they are so simple, there's a limited amount you can do on that one conversion.

Adobe and silkypix use a matrix profiles. The camera pixels 0 and 255 are defined and everything between is just a gamma adjusted line. I'n Lightroom's case the camera profile is converted into a second matrix color space (Melissa, aw, he named it after his daughter), and then converted again to the output space. That's why they have all those knobs so you can get the color right, their partner Greytag will even sell you a profiling kit so you can make the attempt yourself with their blender of a raw processor. Fun huh?

There's a reason most pros use C1, who also write LUT profiles for cameras. Adobe apparently finds it too time consuming, money's better spent on the GUI, I guess.


Last edited by Ranchu : 02-03-2011 at 07:36.
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Old 02-03-2011   #57
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If you'd be satisfied with a Rebel (nothing wrong with that), you just don't understand the appeal of something like this.
Why not both? I find digital cameras pretty much the same, and the Rebels as good as any other, if you get one that focuses (ha). I like the finder on the fuji too.

Last edited by Doug : 02-03-2011 at 18:36. Reason: Inflammatory: "It's just another camera though, imo."
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Old 02-03-2011   #58
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Why not both? I find digital cameras pretty much the same, and the Rebels as good as any other, if you get one that focuses (ha). I like the finder on the fuji too.
I'm a little more cranky than that and being comfortable with a camera makes me want to go photograph more. I just can't get into DSLRs when I've used them... it's just not my thing after being a rangefinder user for so many years.

Last edited by Doug : 02-03-2011 at 18:38. Reason: Keep the flames down...
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Old 02-03-2011   #59
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I'm a little more cranky than that and being comfortable with a camera makes me want to go photograph more. I just can't get into DSLRs when I've used them... it's just not my thing after being a rangefinder user for so many years.
Makes sense to me, I like RF's better too. I'm just cranky about raw converters, as you can see.




Last edited by Doug : 02-03-2011 at 18:38. Reason: quote edit
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Old 02-05-2011   #60
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Does anyone know how accurate the OVF framelines are to the EVF?
This accuracy is key to this camera.
Are the framelines parallax corrected.
shooter
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Old 02-05-2011   #61
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Does anyone know how accurate the OVF framelines are to the EVF?
This accuracy is key to this camera.
Are the framelines parallax corrected.
shooter
90% frame coverage

"Depending on the shooting distance, the parallax is automatically corrected." in the OVF (from the fujifilm website)
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Old 02-06-2011   #62
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I bet when it's finally released, it'll be ****e. We'll all rush to buy, and Fuji will laugh at us from behind one-way glass, drinking fizzy wine.

"We made it all up Eurotrash!" they'll say.

And we'll have spent a grand on a Fisherprice reject.

At least that's what happened last night in my dream. Yes, I have started to dream about this damn camera, along with freaky tall trees I was stuck up.
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Old 02-06-2011   #63
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That would be a nightmare!
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Old 02-06-2011   #64
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That would be a nightmare!
http://sites.google.com/site/davflam...slendermanmyth


Last edited by Ranchu : 02-06-2011 at 15:24.
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Old 02-09-2011   #65
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I haven't seen this as i have been trying to do some work and stay away from the X100.

But the viewfinder is pretty much everything I've hoped for - in particular, the focus distance indicator. It's rendered pretty simply but looks effective, and better than the equivalent on the Hexar; even though I;m sure I would use centre focus, I like the idea of the auto-focus point popping up on a genuine, VF image.

Now, we just need some video of the focus speed.
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