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Fuji X-100 Series This forum is for fans of the rangefinder retrostyled Fuji X Series of digital cameras.

View Poll Results: The new Fuji ... are you buying new or will you wait and buy a used one later on?
I want it now so will buy new. 48 58.54%
I'll wait and pick up a used one and save some money. 34 41.46%
Voters: 82. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-02-2011   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CK Dexter Haven View Post

I've looked for Leica M8+24mm images for inspiration, but the only ones that really demonstrate what i would want are the ones with the 24/1.4, and the Fuji's lens doesn't do 1.4. I would not like to have to shoot wide open all the time just to get foreground/background separation.
There were several example images in the norwegian hands-on that got pulled that showed it will be possible to have a nice dof separation from subject to background. Just flickr river the leica X1 and you can find quite a few nice examples, and it's a f/2.8, a full stop slower.

Here are two that show what I mean:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/peterlueck/4371613974/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sergior...en/5073669902/

If you really want to blur your background completely away, that's what portrait lenses are for, not even a 24mm 1.4 is gonna do that.

Also according to DOF calculator, an M8 with 24mm 1.4 focused at 1 meter, you get 11 cm in focus. With the X100 at 1 meter you get 15cm in focus. Should be fairly similar in terms of background focus. Now if you were comparing and M9 35mm 1.4 at 1 meter, that would probably show a noticeable distance, but only if you had both prints in front of you to compare.

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Old 02-02-2011   #42
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I have an Olympus EP-1 with 17mm (35mm Eqiv) so for me to buy the Fuji it would have to devalue to a low low price like 200. I don't need it I like the way I can shoot with the Oly and I can change lenses. The Fuji seems a bit of a dead end cam but it sure looks fun.
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Old 02-02-2011   #43
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I have an Olympus EP-1 with 17mm (35mm Eqiv) so for me to buy the Fuji it would have to devalue to a low low price like 200. I don't need it I like the way I can shoot with the Oly and I can change lenses. The Fuji seems a bit of a dead end cam but it sure looks fun.
If you could imagine that money back in your pocket, and fast-forward to after the X100 release date, and you were looking for primarily a 35mm lens, would you still pick the EP-1 over the x100?

Just curious, based on your experience with the ep-1
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Old 02-02-2011   #44
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That would be cool if the X100 came with a trip to Mongolia. I'd buy it over the M9 for sure!

I'm wary of initially released images. But I am very optimistic about this camera. I loved the Hexar AF and they seem to have very closely followed that camera's form.
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Old 02-02-2011   #45
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I'll be getting one.

Large sensor camera w/external flash option & viewfinder is just the ticket. The design is a plus.
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Old 02-02-2011   #46
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Originally Posted by videogamemaker View Post
If you could imagine that money back in your pocket, and fast-forward to after the X100 release date, and you were looking for primarily a 35mm lens, would you still pick the EP-1 over the x100?

Just curious, based on your experience with the ep-1
Yes I would pick the EP-1 as I also have the Panasonic G1 with zoom and LTM and M42 mounts,the Jupiter 8 makes a nice portrait. But the big thing for me is aspect ratio, I prefer 645/43 to 32 they work better for me.
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Old 02-02-2011   #47
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I'm not going to buy any new digital camera until the second generation sensors hit the market.
We are still on the first generation?
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Old 02-02-2011   #48
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Second hand? Do people actually buy second hand digital? Sounds like a recipe for disaster to me....
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Old 02-02-2011   #49
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Second hand? Do people actually buy second hand digital? Sounds like a recipe for disaster to me....
I bought my 5D original third hand. Still going strong after 2 years of my ownership. It's knocked and knicked, but works great.
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Old 02-02-2011   #50
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Second hand? Do people actually buy second hand digital? Sounds like a recipe for disaster to me....
Depends. I've bought four dslrs over the course of the time I shot digitally. Two were new, two were used. Didn't have a problem with any of them.

DSLR's are better than compacts, with regard to build quality though, so am not sure I would feel the same about buying compact cameras used, although I did buy a Fuji refurbished F40fd compact that has been problem free for the 2+ years I've had it.

I'm not sure where I would put the X100 re: build quality, until I have one in my hand. Contrary to popular belief, the electronics in digital cameras do not seem to be the weak link. Lot of people, including Brian Sweeney here, have digital cameras that are 10+ years old and fully functional.
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Old 02-02-2011   #51
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Second hand? Do people actually buy second hand digital? Sounds like a recipe for disaster to me....
Why? these cameras are a lot more durable than people make them out to be.
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Old 02-02-2011   #52
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Not sure what your're getting at, but the Tivoli is American no? I guess it went over my head.

I know I'm not buying it hoping to be HCB. I'm buying it because I like the digital workflow, but like the control layout of vintage cameras i.e. dedicated knobs.
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Old 02-02-2011   #53
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Originally Posted by videogamemaker View Post
Just flickr river the leica X1 and you can find quite a few nice examples, and it's a f/2.8, a full stop slower.

Here are two that show what I mean:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/peterlueck/4371613974/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sergior...en/5073669902/

If you really want to blur your background completely away, that's what portrait lenses are for, not even a 24mm 1.4 is gonna do that.
Thanks for the examples, but these just illustrate my point. That's exactly what i would expect, and it's not nearly what i would want.

Here's an example of the kind of subject/background distance that would be a good indicator for me:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/soelin/4850217230/

I don't see enough difference in this versus what i'd see from something like a Canon G12, and at least the zoom cam lets you extend the focal length to try to get shallower DOF.

I have seen decent 24/1.4 shots with an M8, though. I'll just have to wait and see, but i don't think the X100 is really the camera for me. I do love the aethetics/design and intent, though. I'm still a few years away from my ideal - something like this, but full-frame.

Last edited by CK Dexter Haven : 02-02-2011 at 10:19.
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Old 02-02-2011   #54
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Second hand? Do people actually buy second hand digital? Sounds like a recipe for disaster to me....
I bought a well-used 5D that had been fitted with a new shutter and battery box (for a reasonable, non-Leica price, I might add) and it's done me well for the two-plus years I've had it. Best $1,000 digital dollars I ever spent.
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Old 02-02-2011   #55
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I have my name on the list at my local shop here in NZ. Think this is the perfect carry around for me. Want something with me all the time and have a small messenger bag for it already. Don't care that it doesn't fit in my pocket because I want something with EVF and that is price you pay. I know I should wait for 2nd generation but feel I miss opportunities now because I don't have a camera with me. Call me shallow but this little thing is gorgeous as well and it will make me happy every time I use or look at it.
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Old 02-02-2011   #56
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I think my mom had one of those too ... maybe everyone's mom did?

I don't think it would look out of place on the X100.
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Old 02-02-2011   #57
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I've bought many second-hand, used and abused digital SD-series Canon Powershots. They've always served just fine after fixing whatever the known problem was (often a cracked LCD, sometimes a lens error that just required a spring or other bit of the extension mechanism to be put back into place). Unless the thing has been smashed this stuff is a lot more durable than you think. I'd feel a lot less sure about buying a DSLR second-hand personally. A lot more interlocking bits that can go wonky compared to a digicam which is pretty much stamped whole out of a piece of plastic. ;P
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Old 02-02-2011   #58
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I've noticed that no matter how these X100 threads start they all end up the same!

Fuji need to get these things into people's hands so at least the praise and criticism can have some substance.
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waiting on the yellow af assist light...
Old 02-02-2011   #59
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Exclamation waiting on the yellow af assist light...

A camera designed from the ground up for available-light candid PRO photography should have active infrared AF as the Hexar AF did. Instead we get a big bright and ugly yellow AF assist LED that is sure to turn heads for all the wrong reasons... (or turn AF off and struggle with manual focus and no AF aids ).

So I am waiting for now...

Now if Fuji came out with combination of Hybrid and Phase detection AF, like the one Hiroshi Kawahara from FujiFilm mentioned the X100 team was developing just two months ago: http://www.quesabesde.com/noticias/f...awahara,1_7074

Wait, that might just be in the Xmass Limited edition all-black X100... So for now I am definitely waiting, carring my zone-focused GRD2 everywhere, and secretely saving for a Hybrid AF X100.

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Old 02-02-2011   #60
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Not wanting to be left out of the 'starting an X100 thread brigade' I thought I'd ask this question.

It'll be an expensive camera in Oz I supect and as much as I like the look and potential of it, if I do get one, I'll be waiting until a used example crops up at a good price that would come into Australia under our $1000.00 import tax threshold.

That could be up to a year down the track of course but in the meantime I have numerous toys to keep me occupied!
Wheres the "i wont buy one" button?
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Old 02-02-2011   #61
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Those flashes right above the lens like that are generally useless since the closer the lens is to the camera the worse red-eye is. They should have just left it off.
It's not only a flash, it's a flash commander. You can set up any number of wireless speedlight flashes and control them from the master inbuilt flash on the camera.
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Old 02-02-2011   #62
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I've noticed that no matter how these X100 threads start they all end up the same!

Fuji need to get these things into people's hands so at least the praise and criticism can have some substance.
My thoughts exactly mate as I'm getting sick of waiting for a camera that could be affordable or maybe not & might be great or just ok.

No parent would put out presents under the Xmas tree in June .... so come on Fuji give us the camera already!
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Old 02-02-2011   #63
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I own a minolta cle that has the same relative dimensions as that of the x100. I rarely bring this camera with me as a carry everywhere camera due to its size.
I see the x100 as a possible digital alternative to my cle, but again, its use would be limited for 'special' occasions and not an everyday type of camera for me.
I might buy some sort of digital camera in '11 and this x100 is intriguing.
So maybe i'll buy new, but I'd wait months.
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Old 02-02-2011   #64
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Maybe you would have prefered one of those lovely rotating flash cubes ... at least it would be true to form to satisfy the purist in you!


I always thought the Model 100 with its Pop-Up Flash using AG-1's was cool. I still have about 100 AG-1B's.

I had the Model 150, with a Spring-Motor. When I was 8.

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I enjoy these comments Nick.... very good
Old 02-03-2011   #65
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I enjoy these comments Nick.... very good

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Samsung NX 10 with pancake lens... But for the price difference I'd go with the Fuji... I get what you're saying, and your intentions may be good? And I don't mean to dissuade you...

However, anything bigger than a Minox, or an XA, or a little modern compact digicam with a retractable lens? It will soon not be a "with you all the time camera..." It's too big. After the "new toy" novelty wears off, you'll use it as much as your DSLR. It will get use, but it won't be on your person at all times.

In order to do this, the camera has to be so small and light you are not conscious of it, forget it's there. And taking it with you wherever you go is as "subconscious" as grabbing your keys or your cell phone.

This will be your everyday camera for a few weeks at best...

Betchya...

In my case, I grab the case and attach it to my belt when I get dressed in the morning. I forget it's there, not aware of it. And yes, that means I had to swallow my pride, "give in" to digital, and shoot with a very "uncool" soccer mom silver small sensor digicam or Nikon "Coolpix".

There's a reason why similarly sized film cameras stay on my bureau every morning and used for "events" and when I feel like shooting them... It's the same reason so-called "compact" rangefinders got trounced by point-n-shoots...

Nobody carried a Yashica GX, Oly RC, or even a Trip with them at all times... It's why the XA was a break trhough. And people didn't always have a camera with them until the plastic fantastics came out - with all their concessions, in the 80's...

We've been down this road before... decades ago.
I find your comments ring true with my 40+ years of carrying cameras.

I do not find it necessarily true that camera size has much bearing on whether I carry a camera at all time, or not.

Rather the commitment to shoot whenever presented with a viable subject is the key. I purchased an Olympus E-PL2 to get down to "always carry" size, and just sold it after 6 months of ownership.... I was not carrying it any more than I carry a smallish DSLR. It certainly had all the attributes of this upcoming x100, including a sensor that I believe people will find outshoots the Fuji.

I have outshot, to my satisfaction, every APSC sensor I've come up against. In fact, I bought the 18Mp Canon T2i and kept it for 2 months, until I found I got better OOC images with the Olympus m4/3 sensor. I shot both of these cameras side by side for about a month and compared same images. In fact, my experience with a number of owned 4/3 DSLR, plus the micro has been that I have always acquired better images with corresponding MP 4/3 sensors compared to APS/c sensors. This with all Rebel models and a Nikon D80 I purchased.

Now let me say this. All my comparisons are OOC jpegs. I truly dislike and avoid Post Processing. It bothers me that digital cameras create images relying so much on the user to post process for final images. One of the reasons I still shoot film in Medium Format.

I used a pancake lens on the Oly, so the size should be similar to the new X100, which has NO alternative lens options.

Then, as you say it, I recognize that it has definitely "been there, done that" many times over the last many years.

Camera size is, for me, not a function of whether I alway have a camera with me. What is the decisive factor is the commitment to be ready to shoot at all times vs. the intent to go shooting on purpose.

BUT... to answer the point of this thread....NO. I probably will never own this camera, although I am a veteran and inveterate user of all of Fuji's big medium format cameras, including 3 currently owned Fuji 690's.

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Why the hurry?
Old 02-03-2011   #66
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Why the hurry?

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Originally Posted by Keith View Post
I've noticed that no matter how these X100 threads start they all end up the same!

Fuji need to get these things into people's hands so at least the praise and criticism can have some substance.
Fuji has still not jerked us around nearly as long as they did for the GF670 folder. And that was a camera they had previously engineered (nearly) and produced many years before.

That being the case, I think they still have nearly a year to go on this "new" digital model???
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Old 02-03-2011   #67
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The release date is supposed to be March 31 of this year, so just about 2 months away.
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Old 02-03-2011   #68
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shouldn't there be a 'no I don't want one' button?
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Old 02-03-2011   #69
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shouldn't there be a 'no I don't want one' button?
That wouldn't be informative at all. There are probably 6.something billion people that don't want one.
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Old 02-03-2011   #70
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Not to mention the poll is actually only for people who do intend getting the camera ... new or used was the question!
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Old 02-03-2011   #71
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omg! you mean this was a serious poll?

i'll have to delete my 'scratched x100' thread then!
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Old 02-03-2011   #72
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With today's pricing.
Why buy a New camera at the introduction (for those of us who have to live on a budget), when in 6m-1y it will be 20%-30% lower new, and 40% lower used.
I guess you can tell how I voted.
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Old 02-03-2011   #73
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omg! you mean this was a serious poll?

i'll have to delete my 'scratched x100' thread then!


Is anything really serious around here?


How could you possibly define a bunch of people hanging around their computers all day discussing cameras when they could actually be out doing something else ... as serious?

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Old 02-03-2011   #74
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Wheres the "i wont buy one" button?
Next to the "don't submit reply" button perhaps?

As for the X100, I like the concept, I really do. But I don't think I can justify a purchase until prices have gone down a bit, or I can find one used a year or so down the line.

I have lots of fun with my film cameras and my GRD III, what I need to do is become more productive and inventive in using them. Or perhaps more structured and learn to initiate reportages and committing to them. An X100 won't help me with that, but 500$ of film and 500$ spent on a trip somewhere just might.

As for the possibilities of background separation possible (as discussed way earlier in the thread), even my GRD III with it's small sensor and wide lens can deliver pretty decent separation when it's close enough, and the close focus of 10cm that the X100 offers should be enough to surpass this "bokeh";


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Old 02-03-2011   #75
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I have a used Kodak Instamatic 100 if anyone is interested...Still in the Box.

And you could put in an Option for...

I Plan to buy one New, and sell it to Keith as soon as the interchangeable lens version comes out.
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Old 02-03-2011   #76
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I normally buy every camera used. This time, I'm buying new. I can buy an SLR used, I could probably buy a Leica used, but I don't buy used point and shoots. Maybe because I boguht a CoolPix 5700 sued and it died three months later and had been deemed unserviceable and told to toss it out, and hence my opinion of P&S as unserviceable. So maybe my fear here is the X100 may fall under the same category. I foresee the X100 as my primary walking camera for when I'm not lugigng around the D3s' and big glass for work. If so the case, the X100 may get a lot of heavy daily use and hence would rather put all the miles on it from scratch rather than worrying it just just plop out on me in a few weeks after taking one in used.
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Old 02-03-2011   #77
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Buy used and enjoy last year's talk of the town
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Old 02-04-2011   #78
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...but I don't buy used point and shoots. Maybe because I boguht a CoolPix 5700 sued and it died three months later and had been deemed unserviceable and told to toss it out, and hence my opinion of P&S as unserviceable. So maybe my fear here is the X100 may fall under the same category.
Well, it's not a point and shoot...and certainly is in a different category than the Coolpix. Why was the Coolpix unserviceable? That seems a bit much to me.
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