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Old 02-08-2011   #41
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Originally Posted by GSNfan View Post
That image is shot at ISO400, but with -1.3EV and a shutter speed of 1/30. So in other words that is also an ISO 200 photo.
Surely not. It's shot with a higher sensitivity, but with less light shot onto it (which might further affect s/n). I don't think your statement works.

To use a film analogy, if I use faster film, but underexpose, it's still fast film. Correct me if I'm wrong.
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Old 02-08-2011   #42
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Surely not. It's shot with a higher sensitivity, but with less light shot onto it (which might further affect s/n). I don't think your statement works.

To use a film analogy, if I use faster film, but underexpose, it's still fast film. Correct me if I'm wrong.
You're not wrong. The exposure compensation affects what the camera puts the settings at, but the ISO is at what it recorded it in the Exif as. Without the exif at -1.3, depending which settings were in auto, it would have been at 1/10 a second, or it could have boosted up to iso 800 to keep the shutter and aperture settings, if it was in auto iso.

Some people are awfully opinionated for not knowing the basics of digital photography.
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Old 02-08-2011   #43
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Yes. Most @200 iso, and only one @400 Iso :-(

There still must be something to tweak on high iso. I am 100% sure that I have seen few hours ago on this picture gallery a picture of a street at night in sepia colors, and from what I have seen on my Iphone, shadows were very / completly dark... this picture has disappeared now !!!

On the picture samples in the gallery mentionned above (http://www.finepix-x100.com/en/gallery/images) several samples with snow seem to show also a lack of exposure latitude (... althought it could be a wrong exposure ... ).
All of the snow images I have opened in photoshop, I can bring down the snow and there is enough detail and levels there for some nice contrast and no blown highlights. Impressive for a jpeg. I'm sure the raw has even smoother tones.
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Old 02-08-2011   #44
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Surely not. It's shot with a higher sensitivity, but with less light shot onto it (which might further affect s/n). I don't think your statement works.

To use a film analogy, if I use faster film, but underexpose, it's still fast film. Correct me if I'm wrong.
The EXIF says this shot was done in aperture priority.

When -1.3EV is dialed in, the camera compensates by either increasing the shutter speed, the f stop or decreasing the ISO sensitivity.

in this case the f stop is fixed because it was shot in aperture priority, shutter speed is at maximum hand holdable of 1/30 so to compensate for that -1.3EV the camera's firmware lowered the ISO sensitivity of the sensor... He could have done the same shot at ISO 400 but with a shutter speed of 1/60.


Film is analogue process, we're talking about a computer here, for a lack of better word.
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Old 02-08-2011   #45
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When -1.3EV is dialed in, the camera compensates by either increasing the shutter speed, the f stop or decreasing the ISO sensitivity.
Yes. *before* the camera took the photo. Once it takes the photo *then* it records what ISO it was taken at in the exif.

If the exif says 400, it was shot at 400. Any other explanation is incorrect.
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Old 02-08-2011   #46
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Yes. Most @200 iso, and only one @400 Iso :-(

There still must be something to tweak on high iso. I am 100% sure that I have seen few hours ago on this picture gallery a picture of a street at night in sepia colors, and from what I have seen on my Iphone, shadows were very / completly dark... this picture has disappeared now !!!

On the picture samples in the gallery mentionned above (http://www.finepix-x100.com/en/gallery/images) several samples with snow seem to show also a lack of exposure latitude (... althought it could be a wrong exposure ... ).
Here is an example I whipped up. The only image with clipped snow that I could see is this one (the very bottom has a very small row of pure white clipped pixels, but the top of the snow has detail) and it looks like not only should the exposure been recorded darker, but there is no way of knowing yet if the raw file would have had the actual info in it.



Impressive if you ask me, especially the sky and the tree shadows along the path.
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Old 02-08-2011   #47
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In any digital camera I've used, assuming that it's not in Auto ISO mode, the following occurs:
Av = Aperture fixed, ISO fixed, shutter speed variable. Exposure compensation shifts the shutter speed up or down.

Tv = Shutter speed fixed, ISO fixed, aperture variable. Exposure compensation shifts the aperture.
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Old 02-08-2011   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GSNfan View Post
The EXIF says this shot was done in aperture priority.

When -1.3EV is dialed in, the camera compensates by either increasing the shutter speed, the f stop or decreasing the ISO sensitivity.

in this case the f stop is fixed because it was shot in aperture priority, shutter speed is at maximum hand holdable of 1/30 so to compensate for that -1.3EV the camera's firmware lowered the ISO sensitivity of the sensor... .
DOn't follow the logic.

Dial in -1.3 EV and you will need to increase shutter speed (to 1/60 or so). And the ISO stated on the EXIF, as suggested, is the EXIF used.
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Old 02-08-2011   #49
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It's not really that the images are expected to be life changing, it's the camera itself that is so exciting.

Leica X1? no viewfinder and expensive
Nex? No viewfinder (and for now, slow lenses unless you adapt and lose AF)
m4/3? none of the small ones have good integrated viewfinders, and image quality isn't as good as aps-c
real P&S like s90/lx5/XZ-1? No viewfinder and IQ is way behind aps-c
M8/9/RD-1? Price (and it is looking very likely that at least on the noise-in-high-ISO front, the x100 will readily spank all 3 of these)
+1 a fine aps-c sensor in a friendly body with a fine lens - ergo a lot of excitement
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Old 02-08-2011   #50
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I'm gonna wait for the first shipment and see how you all like it...
+1
i would wait for the full review first before spending all my hard earned money for this..
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Old 02-08-2011   #51
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Originally Posted by GSNfan View Post
That image is shot at ISO400, but with -1.3EV and a shutter speed of 1/30. So in other words that is also an ISO 200 photo.
yes, the exposure will be the same, but remember, digital noise is very much different from ISO200 to ISO400, although the exposure is the same, but the amount of noise will be different..

maybe what they meant was that why there is no high ISO test shots to see the noise performance?

but anyway, i think the test shots are done by one of the employees in Fuji, so it may not fully show the capability of the Fujinon lens and the camera itself..

for movie mode, i don't really care about it, 720p is enough, it is a still camera, and not a video camera..
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Old 02-08-2011   #52
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Originally Posted by videogamemaker View Post
Here is an example I whipped up. The only image with clipped snow that I could see is this one (the very bottom has a very small row of pure white clipped pixels, but the top of the snow has detail) and it looks like not only should the exposure been recorded darker, but there is no way of knowing yet if the raw file would have had the actual info in it.

<picture>

Impressive if you ask me, especially the sky and the tree shadows along the path.
Thanks for the clarification Videogamemaker ! . The picture with snow/trees you show is very good indeed. However, on a beautiful day, the sky EV may be in the range of the snow EV. This picture doesn't show plain shadows and the exposure latitude needed to record the picture may be in fact limited.

The first picture you talked about is more problematic, maybe a wrong exposure. Also, the raw file may contain the missing info

We have to wait for more detailled tests. But I won't say I am impressed by the exposure latitude for now
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Old 02-08-2011   #53
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I've seen an ISO 6400 jpeg and it was most impressive.
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Old 02-08-2011   #54
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Originally Posted by cjcm View Post
Thanks for the clarification Videogamemaker ! . The picture with snow/trees you show is very good indeed. However, on a beautiful day, the sky EV may be in the range of the snow EV. This picture doesn't show plain shadows and the exposure latitude needed to record the picture may be in fact limited.

The first picture you talked about is more problematic, maybe a wrong exposure. Also, the raw file may contain the missing info

We have to wait for more detailled tests. But I won't say I am impressed by the exposure latitude for now
That blown out shot is overexposed by probably 1.5-2 stops. The reason everyone is complaining that the samples are 'flat' is because they are holding so much DR, or exposure latitude. Have a good look at the well exposed shots and you'll see there's deep noiseless shadows and a very gentle highlight taper, and almost none of them have blown highlights. If you'll ask me it seems the x100 has a very high exposure latitude.
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Old 02-08-2011   #55
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That blown out shot is overexposed by probably 1.5-2 stops. The reason everyone is complaining that the samples are 'flat' is because they are holding so much DR, or exposure latitude. Have a good look at the well exposed shots and you'll see there's deep noiseless shadows and a very gentle highlight taper, and almost none of them have blown highlights. If you'll ask me it seems the x100 has a very high exposure latitude.
yes, from what i saw, the image is quite impressive for digital, but i still think it can be better tested by some pros, just to really bring out the potential of it.. for digital, i believe the image is good, if not great, for this is a compact..
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Old 02-08-2011   #56
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...but i still think it can be better tested by some pros, just to really bring out the potential of it.. for digital, i believe the image is good, if not great, for this is a compact..
I agree - I think they should just give them out to some awesome influential pro's to use for a week or so. Then we'd see some great samples.
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Old 02-08-2011   #57
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I agree - I think they should just give them out to some awesome influential pro's to use for a week or so. Then we'd see some great samples.
That would be a GREAT idea, especially iwth all this hype surrounding the camera. Sample photos like these (boring) bring down the excitement level a little..at least for me. I want to see some good photographs taken with this thing! That'll push me over the edge
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Old 02-08-2011   #58
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I agree - I think they should just give them out to some awesome influential pro's to use for a week or so. Then we'd see some great samples.
I don't know how influential I am, but I am a pro.

I have the X100 on pre-order and I'll certainly post some samples once I take delivery.
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Old 02-08-2011   #59
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I don't know how influential I am, but I am a pro.

I have the X100 on pre-order and I'll certainly post some samples once I take delivery.
yes, please.. i'll take your post as a promise..
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Old 02-08-2011   #60
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Honestly, I'd rather see unprocessed raw files from amateurs than processed beautiful photos from a Pro... that is where you really get to see what a camera does IMO.
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Old 02-08-2011   #61
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Can they please do better than a (terrible) photo of a fire hydrant! At least I can see some of the shallow depth and bokeh from this lens. Pretty girl environmental portraits please, and not magazine model shots or boring bits of street.
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Old 02-08-2011   #62
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Still too early to say anything definitive. The promise is however, quite promising! I need to see high-iso performance, jpeg engine results and AF speed. But I am very excited about this camera and hope it lives up to the promise.
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Old 02-08-2011   #63
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Honestly, I'd rather see unprocessed raw files from amateurs than processed beautiful photos from a Pro...
Why, thank you (blushing)!
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Old 02-08-2011   #64
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Will wait for $800 second handed..........
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Old 02-08-2011   #65
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Why, thank you (blushing)!
Ah, that wasn't intended for you either way (amateur or pro). I just meant that a Pro that knows how to use the camera and is great at post processing can make anything look great making you think he/she is using is a super camera. I just want to see average snapshots from an average joe. I just feel that it is a more realistic example of what a camera does... not what post processing can do.

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Old 02-08-2011   #66
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It even comes with a never-ready case!
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Old 02-08-2011   #67
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well the adapter and lens hood are sold together and is metal so I can live with that. I'll bite at 1200. Hell of a lot cheaper than a Leica X or a used M w/o glass.
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Old 02-08-2011   #68
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there's going to be an awful lot of people with egg on their faces if this camera turns out to be a dog.
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Old 02-08-2011   #69
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Old 02-08-2011   #70
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Honestly, I'd rather see unprocessed raw files from amateurs than processed beautiful photos from a Pro... that is where you really get to see what a camera does IMO.
I agree with this, regarding any camera. I want to see how it performs in a situation similar to how I will use it, even if it shot by a pro.
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Old 02-08-2011   #71
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Pre ordered mine through Camera Electronic in Perth, Western Australia.

3rd in line. First order is 5 X100's due early March (possible late Feb).

Camera - Aus $1299
Lens hood + adaptor - Aus $129.

Didnt ask for pricing of other accesories..

I plan to make pictures with it.
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Old 02-08-2011   #72
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Fuji rep confirmed that C&C Auckland will have it on 2nd week of March. I am first on list having paid a deposit and cost is NZ$1800. Can't wait and don't care about the price just bring it on.
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Old 02-08-2011   #73
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Lens hood + adaptor - Aus $129.
I'm aware quality stuff costs money, I can swallow fact add-on finders aren't for free, but accessory which isn't expensive to design and manufacture....they had to call it FUHOO to make things clear
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Old 02-08-2011   #74
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It all depends in how you photograph and the subjects you photograph most often. For me I use a rangefinder for it's quick focus, I use it for candid people photos or when I don't want to be so critical with my focus, Hyper focus or zone focus will get the job done. I tend to use my R2M mostly with my 35mm F 2.5. The DOF is great and the 35mm focal length. I will go as far as also using my 50mm Summicron just to tighten the compostion a bit. The Fuji X100 will do just fine. The bonus is that it will have macro down to 10cm instead of 2 or 3 feet and a ND filter built into the leaf shutter lens, which by the way is super quiet compared to any focal plane shutter. For the money around $1200 Canadian it is a bargin. We just have to see if the retail models deliver what has is promised. I am sure Fuji will deliver!

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Old 02-08-2011   #75
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first order with Michaels in Melbourne Australia. AuD 1299. Expected delivery late February. I can hardly wait. However I do think the date is a bit unlikely
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Old 02-08-2011   #76
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In order to not be totally shocked, I would say take the US price and just use UK currency, so about 1200 + some fudge factor.
It is 900 + vat


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Old 02-09-2011   #77
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there's going to be an awful lot of people with egg on their faces if this camera turns out to be a dog.
Why? If it sucks it sucks... life goes on and we move onto the next holy grail.
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Old 02-09-2011   #78
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Why? If it sucks it sucks... life goes on and we move onto the next holy grail.
But I can't imagine a next holy grail producing even more hype. Wait. A FF Zeiss Rangefinder for 2000$ announced one year before it comes out
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Old 02-09-2011   #79
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But I can't imagine a next holy grail producing even more hype. Wait. A FF Zeiss Rangefinder for 2000$ announced one year before it comes out
My god... that would be insanity. They might have to close the forum if that were to happen.
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Old 02-09-2011   #80
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Ah, that wasn't intended for you either way (amateur or pro). I just meant that a Pro that knows how to use the camera and is great at post processing can make anything look great making you think he/she is using is a super camera. I just want to see average snapshots from an average joe. I just feel that it is a more realistic example of what a camera does... not what post processing can do.
c'mon, even amateurs nowadays use PP.. and what makes you think that pros will definitely use PP afterward? it will not be a fair example if all the test shots are PP-ed.. i think for all test shots, it should be done straight out of the camera? and i don't think manufacturers would compromise their reputations by posting heavily processed shots?

i mean, these snapshots are good, but i think if you want to test a sports car, you need at least a good driver to fully exploit the car, not some kid who just know how to drive, or the average mom who only drive to the supermarket..

i just can't see the logic that every pro shots are PP-ed..
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