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Business / Philosophy of Photography Taking pics is one thing, but understanding why we take them, what they mean, what they are best used for, how they effect our reality -- all of these and more are important issues of the Philosophy of Photography. One of the best authors on the subject is Susan Sontag in her book "On Photography."

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Difference between Nude and Naked
Old 11-13-2012   #1
denizg7
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Difference between Nude and Naked

I want some advice from Nude shooters and statements..

In your words what do you think makes the difference between taking a picture of a naked person and a nude person..

I am planning on doing my first nude shots in my apartment and I really want to make the nude shots artful and not like ehm porn..

So I was thinking about using olive oil on some girls and stuff..

Anyway any advice from nude shooters feel free

oh btw I will shoot black and white thanks
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Old 11-13-2012   #2
Terry Christian
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According to the late Southern humorist Lewis Grizzard, there's "naked" and "nekkid."

"Naked" means you have no clothes on.
"Nekkid" means you have no clothes on and you're up to something. ;-)
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Old 11-13-2012   #3
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I'm thinking that clothes-free would be nude...as soon as you slather oil on the model, it's naked
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Old 11-13-2012   #4
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Hmm I am just fearing that all my shots will be trashy naked without no class , if i just shoot them naked plain and simple...

and the lens I have is not a macro lens so i cant get close up focusing on body parts...

hmm i am going to plan this through
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Old 11-13-2012   #5
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Look at Edward Weston's or Willy Ronis's work - that's 'nude'. Their images treat the nude human form as a work of beauty to be appreciated as a work of art, rather than as an object offered purely for the sexual gratification of viewers (which dehumanises the subject). That's how I see the difference.
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Old 11-13-2012   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lynnb View Post
Look at Edward Weston's or Willy Ronis's work - that's 'nude'. Their images treat the nude human form as a work of beauty to be appreciated as a work of art, rather than as an object offered purely for the sexual gratification of viewers (which dehumanises the subject). That's how I see the difference.
thanks! this is what I needed. A bit traditional , but I have a better idea.
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Old 11-13-2012   #7
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Sorry, but I think if you have to ask this question maybe you should rethink what you want to photograph.
Just my 2 cents...........
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Old 11-13-2012   #8
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Originally Posted by Michael Da Re View Post
Sorry, but I think if you have to ask this question maybe you should rethink what you want to photograph.
Just my 2 cents...........
no I just didin't want to hurry into doing it carelessly...

In RFF we have a lot of different expert shooters and I always like to get advice from people who have done it before in the past and possibly learn a few things that they have learnt from their experience in the subject.

sorry for being inexperienced and not arrogant.
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Old 11-13-2012   #9
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Weston and Ronis are just two photographers whose work immediately sprang to mind - of course there are other styles. It's the principle I had in mind.

Think about the use of light, and mood. Also, think about the relationship between you and your model. If it's respectful, your photos will reflect that, and will more likely be interpreted as 'nude' rather than 'naked'. 'Naked', to me, implies clinical observation which objectifies the subject. Others may interpret differently.

Frank Petronio shoots a quite different style of nude to the photographers mentioned above. But his work demonstrates the same principle of working with the models in a respectful manner - he works collaboratively with them to make photographs.
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Old 11-13-2012   #10
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Joe will " catch me", or I would have said: show me side by side images to best compare!

I won't say it.
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Old 11-13-2012   #11
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Naked hands rubbing olive oil on respectfully nude bodies works for me.
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Old 11-13-2012   #12
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Naked - means no clothes caught unaware .
The other side is messed up don't care


Nude - means no clothes , comfortable with the situation
Mentally and physically . Calm spirit .



I've used up my two cents .
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Old 11-13-2012   #13
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nahhh...

bad lighting - porn
good lighting - naked
bad lighting but you know what you are doing - artistic nude



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Start simple
Old 11-13-2012   #14
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Start simple

There is no difference between nude or naked if your intentions are the same.
I suggest photographing your girlfriend for your first nude sets. You will objectify her less and the love and protection of her modesty will show in the images.
Otherwise it is nearly impossible to expect a young man to do a 1st nude shoot that exhibits no sign of objectification.
On the other hand objectification does not always exclude artistic expression.
Why shoot nude anyway?

I end up with nudity in a couple shoots per month but it's never my choice rather.... always the models act of expression or frustration or joy etc..

Maybe you should just jump in and get some experience rather than plan for something.
Find a model who needs work to fill up her portfolio. See what sort of exchange you are capable of building.
There is nothing worse than having a model go stiff unless it's one who has no clothes on
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Old 11-13-2012   #15
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How's this for a definition? If the first things that draw you into the photo are *not* the sexual organs, then its nude
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Old 11-13-2012   #16
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Seinfeld said, "There's good nude and there's bad nude".
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Old 11-13-2012   #17
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i think this thread is a set-up.
first, film vs digital; now, nude vs naked ...
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Old 11-13-2012   #18
Jack Conrad
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Crisco Oil reflects a sort of crude nakedness.
Pure Raw Coconut Oil on the other hand, is more indicative of tasteful nudity.
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Old 11-13-2012   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paulfish4570 View Post
i think this thread is a set-up.
first, film vs digital; now, nude vs naked ...
haha paul you think too much :/
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Old 11-13-2012   #20
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ill update this thread when I try some shots soon
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Old 11-13-2012   #21
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nahhh...

bad lighting - porn
If this where cinematography instead of still photography, you'd have to throw in bad music and bad dialog and almost no plot.
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Old 11-13-2012   #22
denizg7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by f16sunshine View Post
There is no difference between nude or naked if your intentions are the same.
I suggest photographing your girlfriend for your first nude sets. You will objectify her less and the love and protection of her modesty will show in the images.
Otherwise it is nearly impossible to expect a young man to do a 1st nude shoot that exhibits no sign of objectification.
On the other hand objectification does not always exclude artistic expression.
Why shoot nude anyway?

I end up with nudity in a couple shoots per month but it's never my choice rather.... always the models act of expression or frustration or joy etc..

Maybe you should just jump in and get some experience rather than plan for something.
Find a model who needs work to fill up her portfolio. See what sort of exchange you are capable of building.
There is nothing worse than having a model go stiff unless it's one who has no clothes on
this is good advice , thanks.. In all seriousness I was planning on calling an escort to do this, because I would feel more comfortable about it that way.. I know I am a loser...
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Old 11-13-2012   #23
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So, are Lee Friedlander's "nudes" naked or nude?
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Old 11-13-2012   #24
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Originally Posted by jsrockit View Post
So, are Lee Friedlander's "nudes" naked or nude?
hmm I think those pics will hold a more historical point of view than of being nude or naked , because in future humanity will look at his work to see how hairy woman where in the past.. mhm
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Old 11-13-2012   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by denizg7 View Post
no I just didin't want to hurry into doing it carelessly...

In RFF we have a lot of different expert shooters and I always like to get advice from people who have done it before in the past and possibly learn a few things that they have learnt from their experience in the subject.

sorry for being inexperienced and not arrogant.
Sorry if I come off as arrogant. But to me your just asking what the difference is between artistic nudes and porn. I've never done nudes, but even I know the difference. The best cure for inexperience is to take your photos and post them. That way the members that can help will have something to go by. Jump in with both feet. We only learn from our mistakes.
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Old 11-13-2012   #26
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Originally Posted by Michael Da Re View Post
Sorry if I come off as arrogant. But to me your just asking what the difference is between artistic nudes and porn. I've never done nudes, but even I know the difference. The best cure for inexperience is to take your photos and post them. That way the members that can help will have something to go by. Jump in with both feet. We only learn from our mistakes.
i agree with that.
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Old 11-13-2012   #27
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I wrote a paper about this in college (art history class). As best as I remember: Nude is all about form - naked is about being stripped of clothing. Nude appears comfortable - naked is self conscious or ashamed. You might want study how the nude form has been portrayed in art, not just photography. ---john.
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Old 11-13-2012   #28
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Quote:
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So, are Lee Friedlander's "nudes" naked or nude?
You can call Friedlander's shoot of an unknown dancer name Madonna Ciccone for a $25 modeling fee whatever you want. But they were a nice contribution to his nest egg when Playboy magazine bought the rights to them. And from what I hear about him, it could not have happened to a nicer guy.

Now if that ever happens to me, I will be saying "I guess I should have gotten that model release after all"
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Old 11-13-2012   #29
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great idea just popped into my head...

cooking scrambled eggs naked!!

god this is such a brilliant idea! will do this probably next week after i am cleared from school!!
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Old 11-13-2012   #30
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Dennis,

I can't really help with the philosophy behind your question, although I will comment that jbrubakers comment on form is pretty interesting.

I can offer sources of inspiration:

http://www.zamario.com/ - followed him for years, really dig his style.

Bill Brandt

http://www.jeanloupsieff.com/ - one of the greats

Someone mentioned Frank's work. Frank has his own style, which I can respect, but it seems like he flips out once a month when he realizes that hes just another average in a sea of talent.
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Old 11-13-2012   #31
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Originally Posted by anu L ogy View Post
Dennis,

I can't really help with the philosophy behind your question, although I will comment that jbrubakers comment on form is pretty interesting.

I can offer sources of inspiration:

http://www.zamario.com/ - followed him for years, really dig his style.

Bill Brandt

http://www.jeanloupsieff.com/ - one of the greats

Someone mentioned Frank's work. Frank has his own style, which I can respect, but it seems like he flips out once a month when he realizes that hes just another average in a sea of talent.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrubaker View Post
I wrote a paper about this in college (art history class). As best as I remember: Nude is all about form - naked is about being stripped of clothing. Nude appears comfortable - naked is self conscious or ashamed. You might want study how the nude form has been portrayed in art, not just photography. ---john.

very helpful both of you

the first link has some very very amazing shots...

Last edited by denizg7 : 11-13-2012 at 18:36.
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Old 11-13-2012   #32
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Nude or fine are nudes, think bodyscapes, think of the unclad form presented like still life. Photograph to accentuate movement, utilize shadows and light, you want to capture the sensual which isn't necessarily sexual. As for the difference between nude and naked I don't know that there technically is one but you should be able to differentiate between artistic nudity and that spread-eagled pose with the come hither gaze. If you would be embarrassed to show your loved one like that.. you know you did it wrong. John made a great suggestion, look at paintings for some inspiration.
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Old 11-13-2012   #33
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Heck I will throw in my 2 cents on this. Naked is about the body, nude is about what is expressed by the body. I don't agree that nude is necessarily comfortable, I think it can be be self conscious or even ashamed.... but it is not about itself.. if that makes sense. Naked on the other hand is all about being naked.

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Old 11-13-2012   #34
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I think you could begin to answer the original question by first looking up Edward Weston. Then look up Les Krims.

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Old 11-13-2012   #35
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Dennis

Do you see any conflict in apparently not wanting to do a "porn" shoot and objectify a woman's body and your genius plan to hire an escort?
Oh let me answer that... Yes, I do.

*** dude?
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Old 11-13-2012   #36
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I would be looking at sculptures in art history, i think the composition and lighting turn a body nude.
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Old 11-13-2012   #37
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Almost 40 posts and no pix yet...!??
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Old 11-13-2012   #38
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guys I have a very good idea now thanks to all for contributions and ideas..
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Old 11-13-2012   #39
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Dennis

Do you see any conflict in apparently not wanting to do a "porn" shoot and objectify a woman's body and your genius plan to hire an escort?
Oh let me answer that... Yes, I do.

*** dude?
im sorry I guess im just a demented guy
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Old 11-13-2012   #40
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I'll suggest that an escort is absolutely the wrong way to go on this. That just says sex.

Check out the web site, Model Mayhem. You can find models in your area who will pose for you. Especially if you are willing to pay.

If you are truly serious about it from an artistic perspective, find an experienced model. She's not going to shoot with you for free, given your lack of experience in these types of shoots.
But you are going to have a lot better chance of success if you are working with someone who's experienced modeling and who enjoys being naked/nude in front of a camera.

One of the worst things you can do is start off with a model who's not 100 percent comfortable in that setting. Again, given your lack of experience with nudes, it's a recipe for horrible photos.

Oh, and by the way. You don't need a macro lens for bodyscape photos. modest telephoto can handle that quite well. But you really need good lighting for those to work.

I've done a few nude shoots over the past couple of years, though they are not my favorite things to do. They generally come at the request of the models I shoot - and I just always worry that they'll look cheap. To me, there's nothing worse than bad nude photography.
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