Ghost?
Old 10-04-2018   #1
nickthetasmaniac
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Ghost?

Hi all, any ideas what's going on here?

Note the upside down '750' on the left hand side of the image, below and to the right of the No Stopping sign. This was not present in the original scene, and almost looks like it's been superimposed on the image...

Shot with a M2 and 400TX.



Thanks, Nick
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Old 10-04-2018   #2
Freakscene
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Is it a reflection of what’s in the blown out area above the massage sign?

Marty
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Old 10-04-2018   #3
Sumarongi
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I'd suggest: Be happy, that it's just a *750* --


-- it could be a *666*

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Old 10-04-2018   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freakscene View Post
Is it a reflection of whatís in the blown out area above the massage sign?

Marty
Perfectly opposite from centre frame, so I'd guess it is. Not that I know how this phenomenon happens... Had it occur to me before though.
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Old 10-04-2018   #5
nickthetasmaniac
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freakscene View Post
Is it a reflection of whatís in the blown out area above the massage sign?

Marty
I thought it might be, although I can't remember what the blown out area was.

But if it is, why is it reflected on the other side of the image?
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Old 10-04-2018   #6
DanskDynamit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumarongi View Post
I'd suggest: Be happy, that it's just a *750* --


-- it could be a *666*

it could be *420*
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Old 10-04-2018   #7
peterm1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickthetasmaniac View Post
Hi all, any ideas what's going on here?

Note the upside down '750' on the left hand side of the image, below and to the right of the No Stopping sign. This was not present in the original scene, and almost looks like it's been superimposed on the image...

Shot with a M2 and 400TX.



Thanks, Nick
Be thankful it is not 666. I have seen THAT movie!

EDIT: OOps I see someone has beaten me to that joke........

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Old 10-04-2018   #8
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I think it must be a ghost reflection of the blown area. If you examine the negative, you might be able to see it in the blown-out space, even though it didn't print. or show up on-screen.

What lens did you take this with? It's not a 35mm Pre-ASPH, by any chance?
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Old 10-04-2018   #9
oldwino
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Filter on the lens?
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Old 10-04-2018   #10
Sumarongi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peterm1 View Post
Be thankful it is not 666. I have seen THAT movie!

EDIT: OOps I see someone has beaten me to that joke........
... I just re-watched it a couple of weeks ago
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Old 10-04-2018   #11
rfaspen
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I've had this exact thing happen to be before. Yes, a reflection of that blown out area (must be a neon sign that says "750"). Happened most often when I used a Jupiter-3 lens with a UV filter on it -- at night of course, with lighted signs and other bright sources.

I'm fairly certain its a function of the filter. One reason why I try to use the most transmissive filters I can afford. This one might have been a "cheapie".
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Old 10-04-2018   #12
nickthetasmaniac
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob-F View Post
What lens did you take this with? It's not a 35mm Pre-ASPH, by any chance?
No, from memory it would have been a VM 50/f1.5.

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Originally Posted by oldwino View Post
Filter on the lens?
Quote:
Originally Posted by rfaspen View Post
I'm fairly certain its a function of the filter.
I think this might be it. I suspect (it was a while ago) I would have been using a B+W UV filter...
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Old 10-04-2018   #13
peterm1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumarongi View Post
... I just re-watched it a couple of weeks ago
Yes, the damn thing freaks me out even now. Not many spooky old movies can claim that.

(Modern "scary" movies are even worse for not being scary - they too often substitute expensive special effects for good writing and a story that works).

Sorry, that's off topic, I know.
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Old 10-04-2018   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickthetasmaniac View Post
I thought it might be, although I can't remember what the blown out area was.

But if it is, why is it reflected on the other side of the image?
It’s reflected where you would expect, at the opposite of the optical axis. So it’s on the other side, below the centre rather than above it, and upside down.

It’s likely exacerbated by the very strong difference in luminance between the general scene and the blown out area.

Marty
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Old 10-04-2018   #15
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Nick, you'll have to go back to the scene, if you can, to see if there was "750" on the door. Bring your ghostbusters proton gun.
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Old 10-04-2018   #16
nickthetasmaniac
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Originally Posted by Freakscene View Post
Itís reflected where you would expect, at the opposite of the optical axis. So itís on the other side, below the centre rather than above it, and upside down.
Yep I understand why it's reflected where it's reflected, I was more asking why the reflection is there at all (which seems to be the fault of the filter).
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Old 10-04-2018   #17
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Originally Posted by pyeh View Post
Nick, you'll have to go back to the scene, if you can, to see if there was "750" on the door. Bring your ghostbusters proton gun.
If you look at the sign below the blown out area, it says

MASSAGE
750

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Old 10-04-2018   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickthetasmaniac View Post
Yep I understand why it's reflected where it's reflected, I was more asking why the reflection is there at all (which seems to be the fault of the filter).

Definitely fault of using a filter in a lighting situation like that. I use Hoya and B+W filters, and can recreate this at night in dark scenes w bright light sources. Which is why I now take the filter off if that is what I am going to shoot.
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Old 10-04-2018   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickthetasmaniac View Post
Yep I understand why it's reflected where it's reflected, I was more asking why the reflection is there at all (which seems to be the fault of the filter).
The ghost is probably from reflections off the front element onto the filter and back to the optical path. Apart from Heliopan SHPMC, and to a lesser extent B+W MRC, filter coatings are much less effective thank camera lens coatings. Lenses aren’t usually designed with a filter in the optical pathway, so adding a blank ‘element’ degrades the image. Only use them if they are necessary (such as for adjusting B&W colour response/tonality). When lenses are designed with a filter in mind, it’s usually behind the lens, too, not in front.

Some lenses are built with non-active blank rear elements. These can be added as dust barriers where the back optical element needs to be a long way forward of the image plane, or special purpose lenses that will always be used with filters such as scientific IR and UV lenses.

This is in Haymarket in Sydney, isn’t it?

Marty

Last edited by Freakscene : 10-04-2018 at 18:59. Reason: Spelling
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Old 10-04-2018   #20
nickthetasmaniac
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Originally Posted by Freakscene View Post
Apart from Heliopan SHPMC, and to a lesser extent B+W MRC, filter coatings are much less effective thank camera lens coatings.
This would have been a B+W MRC filter. All of my UV filters are either B+W or Heliopan.

Quote:
Lenses arenít usually designed with a filter in the optical pathway, so adding a blank Ďelementí degrades the image. Only use them if they are necessary (such as for adjust8ng B&W colour response/tonality).
I tend to use good quality clear/UV filters on my M2 rather than lens caps. I find the convenience outweighs the loss in IQ (which in most cases I just can't see). Having said that, I've stopped using filters for night street scenes...

Quote:
This is in Haymarket in Sydney, isnít it?
Yep!
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Old 10-04-2018   #21
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PF, you are quite right. Blame me for "skimming".
But would it be fair to say there is also 750 in the blown out portion of the door that's caused the ghost image?
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