Want to Try Fiber Paper - Any Recommendations
Old 01-08-2019   #1
Aaron Hellman
Registered User
 
Aaron Hellman is offline
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 15
Want to Try Fiber Paper - Any Recommendations

I typically use Ilford warmtone RC paper with a pearl surface when printing in the darkroom. I would like to try a fiber paper for comparison. I mostly print pictures of people. Any recommendations on a paper to try? Will I notice a difference between a fiber and RC print when they are framed and behind glass? Thank you for your help.
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-08-2019   #2
Corran
Registered User
 
Corran is offline
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 1,278
Stick with Ilford of course.
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-08-2019   #3
newsgrunt
Registered User
 
newsgrunt's Avatar
 
newsgrunt is offline
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,152
Bergger looks great. also, Oriental isn't as bad as many make out. It's not as good as the old paper, but the price is very attractive.
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-08-2019   #4
DominikDUK
Registered User
 
DominikDUK's Avatar
 
DominikDUK is offline
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Vienna, Austria
Posts: 1,028
Since you are already familiar with Warmtone RC you could try the Ilford warmtone FB Paper which is very highly regarded. Personally love Foma papers they are also less expensive than Ilford their Warmtone paper is Fomatone MG.
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-08-2019   #5
miha
Registered User
 
miha is offline
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Slovenia
Posts: 96
What Dominik said.
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-08-2019   #6
Ko.Fe.
Kostya Fedot
 
Ko.Fe.'s Avatar
 
Ko.Fe. is offline
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: MiltON.ONtario
Posts: 7,103
If nothing is wrong with Ilford RC, then FB should be fine.
Glass and framed? Have you tried Lith print, yet?
If not I see no significant difference in frame and glassed, between RC, DC and inks.
Holding them in hands - different.
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-08-2019   #7
drewbarb
picnic like it's 1999
 
drewbarb's Avatar
 
drewbarb is offline
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 1,432
Yes, you will see a difference in your prints, even mounted behind glass. Good fiber paper prints look so much nicer than RC paper (and they last longer, when properly handled) that they only question you will ask is why you waited so long to switch. One thing worth mentioning, too, is that fiber paper requires a little more care in the darkroom and in finishing. Fiber paper takes longer to fix properly, and they need more washing (and ideally a perma-wash/fixer remover) to rinse all the chemistry out. RC papers fix and wash very fast because the coating keeps the liquid from absorbing into the substrate. Also, RC paper dries fairly flat but fiber prints will curl while drying and need to be flattened later. So fiber printing is more work, but it's certainly worth it for superior results.

Here's my routine: I fix fiber papers for 5 or so, then my prints go into a holding tray with circulating water while I keep printing. Once I have ten or 20 prints in the holding tray, or I'm done with that session or that image or whatever, these prints go to a fixer remover bath for 3-4 minutes where they are constantly circulated/agitated by hand. Then they might go into a toning bath, or straight into the final wash for at 20 or 30 minutes. Then they get CAREFULLY squeegee'd and laid out on a drying rack.

Then, as I mentioned, once they're dry you'll need to flatten them. I weight fiber paper prints under a heavy piece of glass with a few books piled on top for a few days, or I might give them a minute or two in the heat press if I have to. Some papers curl more than others, and they will dry flatter the more water you can squeegee out of them- but be careful because it's easy to damage wet fiber prints. I've even squeegee'd off some of the emulsion on occasion! If you lay prints out face down to dry they will dry flatter than prints dried face up- but you can get marks from your drying racks in the emulsion, depending upon the surfaces, so use care and your own best judgement about how you are going to dry. Also, always make sure your drying rack screens are scrupulously clean!

Like everything else, care with your technique will make as much or more of a difference in your results than your materials. Have fun!
__________________
-drew
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-08-2019   #8
Steve M.
Registered User
 
Steve M. is offline
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,308
What Eric said. Adox MCC 110. And yes, you will see brighter whites and deeper blacks compared to RC.

MCC 110 is the best paper I have ever used, and by a large margin. Not cheap, but since I never have to make proofs or filter it for contrast, I save money that way. Just make your test exposures, decide which one you like, print it, and frame it. A superior paper in every way. Read the reviews on it at Freestyle Photo and elsewhere.
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-08-2019   #9
Bill Clark
Registered User
 
Bill Clark's Avatar
 
Bill Clark is offline
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Minnetonka, Minnesota
Age: 71
Posts: 2,501
Give it a try.

When I first started darkroom printing all there was available were fiber based papers. No variable contrast papers either. I used #2 most of the time.

Now all I use are resin coated papers. Variable contrast, which makes it easy peasy with my Chromega color head on my Omega enlarger.

Fiber based have their challenges. From getting the paper flat to put in the enlarging easel, the lengthly wash times, getting the paper to dry flat, I did my time for a few decades.

RC is so much easier, at least it is for me.

Doesn’t last as long? Keep the negative.

But I suggest, give it a try. You may like it.
__________________
I make photographs as a return ticket to a moment otherwise gone.
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-08-2019   #10
Freakscene
Deregistered user
 
Freakscene's Avatar
 
Freakscene is offline
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: In exile
Posts: 1,568
Adox MCC 110 and the current series of Bergger FB papers are technically the best - highest DMax, least fogging of highlights from extended development. The former bleaches slowly, the latter more quickly.

Foma make a lot of very interesting and beautiful surfaces.

There are no ‘bad’ papers these days - QA is good, and they all work extremely well. I don’t like Ilford FB warmtone because it looks greenish in regular developers and needs specialised warmtone developers for the image tone to look right to me.

Marty
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-08-2019   #11
Corran
Registered User
 
Corran is offline
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 1,278
Ilford Warmtone in Ansco 130 (purchase from PF) works great and is not green, and lasts forever - even keeps well in open trays. My favorite for MG printing.

Also the only paper with a semi-matte finish.
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-08-2019   #12
Freakscene
Deregistered user
 
Freakscene's Avatar
 
Freakscene is offline
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: In exile
Posts: 1,568
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corran View Post
Ilford Warmtone in Ansco 130 (purchase from PF) works great and is not green, and lasts forever - even keeps well in open trays. My favorite for MG printing.
That is among the best ways to get Ilford FB Warmtone to look good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corran View Post
Also the only paper with a semi-matte finish.
Adox, Foma and Bergger all also have semi-matte finishes, although they all look different.

Marty
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-08-2019   #13
Corran
Registered User
 
Corran is offline
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 1,278
If they do they are not commonly found or advertised. Frankly there's so many numbers and types from Adox that my eyes gloss over. I tried some Adox in years past, matte surface, and the tone was great but it was much more finnicky than Ilford and the matte was way flatter looking than I expected (again, compared to Ilford matte).

Personally I would never recommend Adox papers to new FB printers as I think Ilford (especially glossy) is way easier to print on, for whatever reason. Certainly if one works with it and is pursuing a certain quality it may be appropriate. For learning, I think an easy paper to start is better and then move to something else if wanting a certain look.

Also, one should not overlook the amazing Ilford ART 300 for some images!
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-08-2019   #14
Erik van Straten
Registered User
 
Erik van Straten's Avatar
 
Erik van Straten is offline
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 8,037
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corran View Post
If they do they are not commonly found or advertised.
There is some "semi-matt", but not much.

Look here:

https://www.fotoimpex.com/

or here (but it is not MCC 110):

http://www.adox.de/Photo/photopaper/...e-based-paper/

Erik.
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-08-2019   #15
Erik van Straten
Registered User
 
Erik van Straten's Avatar
 
Erik van Straten is offline
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 8,037
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corran View Post

Personally I would never recommend Adox papers to new FB printers as I think Ilford (especially glossy) is way easier to print on, for whatever reason.
Hmm, after many years of using Ilford I was so happy when I finally got Adox MCC 110. There is almost no difference in tone when the paper is wet or dry (one of the most difficult tasks of a printer is to anticipate on the tone of the dry print) and above all split grade printing on MCC 110 is miraculous.

Erik.
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-09-2019   #16
DominikDUK
Registered User
 
DominikDUK's Avatar
 
DominikDUK is offline
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Vienna, Austria
Posts: 1,028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corran View Post
If they do they are not commonly found or advertised. Frankly there's so many numbers and types from Adox that my eyes gloss over. I tried some Adox in years past, matte surface, and the tone was great but it was much more finnicky than Ilford and the matte was way flatter looking than I expected (again, compared to Ilford matte).

Personally I would never recommend Adox papers to new FB printers as I think Ilford (especially glossy) is way easier to print on, for whatever reason. Certainly if one works with it and is pursuing a certain quality it may be appropriate. For learning, I think an easy paper to start is better and then move to something else if wanting a certain look.

Also, one should not overlook the amazing Ilford ART 300 for some images!

Adox is not available in Matt :-( only in glossy and semi-matt. did you mean Foma. Matt Foma is also not as matt as Ilford MG Matt.
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-09-2019   #17
Rob-F
Likes Leicas
 
Rob-F's Avatar
 
Rob-F is offline
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: The Show Me state
Age: 78
Posts: 5,889
I have always come back to Ilford FB papers after trying others. But after these positive comments about Adox, I think I will try some!
__________________
May the light be with you.
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-09-2019   #18
kermaier
Registered User
 
kermaier's Avatar
 
kermaier is offline
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Northern New Jersey
Posts: 1,676
I used to love Oriental Seagull, but as others have noted, it’s not quite the same product anymore. Still a good MG paper.

Another fun thing to try is using graded FB papers like Ilford Galerie. Since a graded paper has a fixed max density, you can do things like letting it cook in dev for a long time to bring up detail in overexposed highlights, without blocking up shadow detail.

Enjoy!
__________________
M9-P, Fuji X100
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-09-2019   #19
FujiLove
Registered User
 
FujiLove is offline
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 574
If you're mainly holding prints in your hands, want to produce a small number of prints in the absolute best quality and can bear to deal with over an hour of print washing, hours of drying and days of flattening, then yes, fibre paper is the best. I love Ilford's semi matt finish papers. Fibre paper is also the first choice if you want to tone your prints, as it generally takes much better than RC.

However, if you're mainly putting prints in frames behind glass, and just want to produce lovely untoned prints, I'd stick with RC. I doubt you will notice any difference once they're behind glass.

I now do 90% of my printing on Ilford RC Satin paper. It's a lovely semi-matt finish, and great value.
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-09-2019   #20
Corran
Registered User
 
Corran is offline
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 1,278
Dominik, Erik, apologies but yes I was thinking of Foma.

I found it, personally, to be more matte and harder to use than Ilford. I also found it to have a wicked dry-down.

If Adox has less dry-down, that is an interesting property.

Regarding availability, the other thing about these papers is the USA availability for those of us over here - it is lacking.

Like someone else said, all the papers available today are excellent. Rather than reading others' opinions on the internet, really one MUST try them. This is arduous and expensive for a new user (not to mention wasteful and discouraging often since their technique is low at first) so that is why I always recommend Ilford Classic Glossy for a new Fiber user - and only after some learning and technique is established, start trying new things. It is simply easier to print on.
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-09-2019   #21
FujiLove
Registered User
 
FujiLove is offline
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 574
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corran View Post
Like someone else said, all the papers available today are excellent. Rather than reading others' opinions on the internet, really one MUST try them. This is arduous and expensive for a new user (not to mention wasteful and discouraging often since their technique is low at first) so that is why I always recommend Ilford Classic Glossy for a new Fiber user - and only after some learning and technique is established, start trying new things. It is simply easier to print on.

Good advice.
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-15-2019   #22
Hari
Registered User
 
Hari is offline
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 28
Bergger fiber is good..
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-08-2019   #23
Erik van Straten
Registered User
 
Erik van Straten's Avatar
 
Erik van Straten is offline
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 8,037
Quote:
Originally Posted by drewbarb View Post
Then, as I mentioned, once they're dry you'll need to flatten them. I weight fiber paper prints under a heavy piece of glass with a few books piled on top for a few days, or I might give them a minute or two in the heat press if I have to.
Before flatten them in a heat press (I have a Seal Compress) the best thing to do is to dry them on an old fashioned (but big) drying drum, Büscher. These can be find only in Europe I guess. You can connect them easily with a digital thermostate so that the heat will be constant. 40 degrees C is excellent. The covering cloth must be clean, clean it with Biotex if neccessary. In about 30 minutes they are dry. Then for about 90 seconds in the Seal at 85 degrees C.

Erik.
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-08-2019   #24
Nokton48
Registered User
 
Nokton48's Avatar
 
Nokton48 is offline
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,178
I have a freezer full of Kodak Ektalure "R" surface tapestry finish salon paper. 8x10 to 16x20. Bought up a lot before it was discontinued and then deep froze it. It also came in "X" surface.

Twenty five years later, I will start to print with it. Last time I mixed GAF120 and Amidol from scratch. Actually I preferred the GAF120, absolutely lovely We will see soon..........

My fave FB paper

I have some old Foma too
__________________
“The secret of getting ahead is getting started.”
― Mark Twain
  Reply With Quote

Old 4 Weeks Ago   #25
LeicaFoReVer
Addicted to Rangefinders
 
LeicaFoReVer's Avatar
 
LeicaFoReVer is offline
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Turkey
Posts: 1,316
Hi Guys,

Years ago I tried to print and bought some paper I dont remember but I remember that it came curled so I had difficulty to put under the enlarger and keep it flat during printing because I didnt have easel. That might have been FB paper? Now I try to print again years after, I use RC paper but after reading about MC110 I might want to try that out. However do those come curled before printing? I need to know because I again dont have an easel?
__________________
Leica M6 TTL x.72
Leica iiif
Leica Elmar-M 5cm f2.8 (rare early version)
Canon 50mm f/1.2 LTM
Voightlander Color Skopar PII 35mm f2.5
Contax G2 + 45mm & 28mm
Contax RX + Zeiss 50mm f1.4
Olympus OM-4 + 24mm f2.8 + 35mm f2
Fed 3 + jupiter-12
Sony NEX 7


websites:
http://www.blurb.com/user/store/aykutkaraca
http://flickriver.com/photos/2851236...r-interesting/
http://sites.google.com/site/aykutphoto/Home
http://aykutkaraca.webs.com
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 15:23.


vBulletin skin developed by: eXtremepixels
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

All content on this site is Copyright Protected and owned by its respective owner. You may link to content on this site but you may not reproduce any of it in whole or part without written consent from its owner.