B&W Film Defects.
Old 01-18-2019   #1
jmpgino
Registered User
 
jmpgino is offline
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Ga U.S.A now, England before.
Posts: 342
B&W Film Defects.

Am I the only one who keeps getting defects on Black And White film. I have had it with FP4 and now TMax400. So far never an issue with Acros but with the others its like a tiny amount of emulsion is missing or an area of distorted emulsion. Only had one issue with a colour film in fourth years of shooting.
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-18-2019   #2
Corran
Registered User
 
Corran is offline
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 1,286
Are you developing yourself? Scanning?

Very unlikely that it's the film.
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-18-2019   #3
Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
 
Chriscrawfordphoto's Avatar
 
Chriscrawfordphoto is offline
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Fort Wayne, Indiana
Age: 43
Posts: 8,959
Kodak and Ilford almost never have defects in manufacturing. Same with Fuji. You see stuff like that with low-tech low-cost films like Foma (though they've gotten much better than they used to be), but never from Kodak, Ilford or Fuji.

What you're seeing sounds like a processing issue. All of your chemicals must be the same temperature. If they're not, you can see wrinkling of the emulsion (this is called reticulation) and in the worst cases, actual lifting off of spots of the emulsion. Modern films by Kodak and Ilford have hardened emulsions that are pretty resistant to reticulation, so it takes a BIG temperature variation between chemicals to induce it.
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-18-2019   #4
jmpgino
Registered User
 
jmpgino is offline
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Ga U.S.A now, England before.
Posts: 342
I have been processing my own stuff for years, I AM METICULOUS. I even have a Thermoworks $100 temperature reader and a $110 Thermoworke IR gun that I use in combination with each other.
These missing tiny amounts of emulsion are at microscope inspection totally missing from the backing. The distortion areas look like squeezed up paint inside a drying up can of paint.
I know it would be the obvious thing to look at myself, I have but these errors are in the middle of the film. And my cameras are Hasselblads, Rolleiflexes and a folding Zeiss Super Ikonta 513/2. My Father taught me to process. I even use distilled water every time. Now I am not saying this is on every film, no about once in fifty would be a ratio.
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-18-2019   #5
Dan Daniel
Registered User
 
Dan Daniel is offline
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,551
Maybe scraping opf the emulsion by particles on rollers, dirt, or some other item? Possibly in camera, possibly in processing?

Any wiping or touching of the emulsion at any step in your development?

Another possibility could be some contaminant in the chemicals or on equipment.

Photos would be helpful.
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-18-2019   #6
Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
 
Chriscrawfordphoto's Avatar
 
Chriscrawfordphoto is offline
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Fort Wayne, Indiana
Age: 43
Posts: 8,959
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpgino View Post
I have been processing my own stuff for years, I AM METICULOUS. I even have a Thermoworks $100 temperature reader and a $110 Thermoworke IR gun that I use in combination with each other.
These missing tiny amounts of emulsion are at microscope inspection totally missing from the backing. The distortion areas look like squeezed up paint inside a drying up can of paint.
I know it would be the obvious thing to look at myself, I have but these errors are in the middle of the film. And my cameras are Hasselblads, Rolleiflexes and a folding Zeiss Super Ikonta 513/2. My Father taught me to process. I even use distilled water every time. Now I am not saying this is on every film, no about once in fifty would be a ratio.
What you're describing is reticulation. If your temperature readings are accurate, then it could be a film defect. Another possibility is the film has been exposed to heat during storage or shipping. If its only happening on one in 50 films, it'll be hard to pin down a cause.
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-18-2019   #7
BLKRCAT
99% Film
 
BLKRCAT's Avatar
 
BLKRCAT is offline
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,769
I don't know chris. I've had some pinholes before on HP5 and FP4 in bulk.

It's very uncommon but maybe a little more common than almost never
__________________
Tumblr Youtube
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-18-2019   #8
xayraa33
rangefinder user and fancier
 
xayraa33's Avatar
 
xayraa33 is offline
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 5,860
All film can have manufacturer defects, just a matter of percentage that's all.

The eastern European and Chinese brands were and are more prone to this than the well known primo American and western European and Japanese brands, with their better coating machines and tighter production QC.
__________________
My Gallery
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-18-2019   #9
Dan Daniel
Registered User
 
Dan Daniel is offline
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,551
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriscrawfordphoto View Post
What you're describing is reticulation. If your temperature readings are accurate, then it could be a film defect. Another possibility is the film has been exposed to heat during storage or shipping. If its only happening on one in 50 films, it'll be hard to pin down a cause.
And the OP says that it happens only on some areas of the roll.

Reticulation is usually an overall effect. Hard to imagine spot reticulation occurring without, say, spraying small drops of hot water on the film.

Images of marks, please?
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-18-2019   #10
Freakscene
Deregistered user
 
Freakscene's Avatar
 
Freakscene is offline
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: In exile
Posts: 1,618
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpgino View Post
I have been processing my own stuff for years, I AM METICULOUS. I even have a Thermoworks $100 temperature reader and a $110 Thermoworke IR gun that I use in combination with each other.
These missing tiny amounts of emulsion are at microscope inspection totally missing from the backing. The distortion areas look like squeezed up paint inside a drying up can of paint.
I know it would be the obvious thing to look at myself, I have but these errors are in the middle of the film. And my cameras are Hasselblads, Rolleiflexes and a folding Zeiss Super Ikonta 513/2. My Father taught me to process. I even use distilled water every time. Now I am not saying this is on every film, no about once in fifty would be a ratio.
Photos of what you are observing would be useful. How large are they? If you are looking at them under a microscope, can you show us photos taken at that magnification?

Why are you measuring temperature with an IR gun? That is not a good way to measure the temperature of liquids.

Marty
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-18-2019   #11
Erik van Straten
Registered User
 
Erik van Straten's Avatar
 
Erik van Straten is offline
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 8,437
I once had a Tmax 400 film with the emulsion layer on the wrong side, believe it or not.


Erik.
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-18-2019   #12
Freakscene
Deregistered user
 
Freakscene's Avatar
 
Freakscene is offline
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: In exile
Posts: 1,618
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik van Straten View Post
I once had a Tmax 400 film with the emulsion layer on the wrong side, believe it or not.


Erik.
I developed some from the same batch. Kodak Australia were baffled too.

Marty
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-19-2019   #13
Murray Kelly
Registered User
 
Murray Kelly's Avatar
 
Murray Kelly is offline
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 517
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik van Straten View Post
I once had a Tmax 400 film with the emulsion layer on the wrong side, believe it or not.


Erik.
What did it look like? I have some 2210 16mm Surveillance film I want to use in Minolta 16 cameras but the first strip has awful reticulation I cannot explain. Never had it before and nothing has changed. It's a T-grain 400 if that makes any difference.
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-19-2019   #14
Erik van Straten
Registered User
 
Erik van Straten's Avatar
 
Erik van Straten is offline
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 8,437
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murray Kelly View Post
What did it look like?

The film was connected upside down to its spool.


Erik.
  Reply With Quote

Tmax400
Old 01-19-2019   #15
KenR
Registered User
 
KenR is offline
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 692
Tmax400

I had the 120 format Tmax400 issue a couple of years ago where the frame numbers appeared on the negatives. They replaced the damaged rolls (of course they couldn't go back and re-shoot the photos for me). Before that and since that time, I have never had a problem in 30 years - only Ilford and Kodak products.
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-19-2019   #16
Ronald M
Registered User
 
Ronald M is offline
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,496
My limited experience with pro lab developed 120 C41 is that they can make a nice clean print. When I scanned same frame with Epson, I got a million small defects from film I cleaned first.

On to monochrome. It all shows a boatload of small defects . When I print the negative, they do not show. I spend hours retouching because I do not know which will show. Konica Minolta 5400 version 1 .

I think there used to be programs that did the retouch because commercial labs can not do all the work .
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-19-2019   #17
Murray Kelly
Registered User
 
Murray Kelly's Avatar
 
Murray Kelly is offline
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 517
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik van Straten View Post
The film was connected upside down to its spool.


Erik.
Ah! I understand. Not a coating problem but a challenge to loading the film.
Thanks.
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 01:05.


vBulletin skin developed by: eXtremepixels
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

All content on this site is Copyright Protected and owned by its respective owner. You may link to content on this site but you may not reproduce any of it in whole or part without written consent from its owner.