Go Back   Rangefinderforum.com > Cameras / Gear / Photography > Gearhead Delights > Repair / Camera Care

Repair / Camera Care This is a good place to discuss the care and repair of your photo gear. You can share Do-It-Yourself repair and maintenance, as well as your recommendations for pro repairs. This new forum was created 4/1/07. PLEASE title your thread wisely, so others searching for a certain make of camera or repair person can find your thread easily!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes

Previously Serviced? M cameras
Old 06-06-2019   #1
Derek Leath
Registered User
 
Derek Leath's Avatar
 
Derek Leath is offline
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 71
Previously Serviced? M cameras

Hello all.

I just purchased a nice M2, and it got me wondering if there is a way to tell if it has been service recently?
I know when I get one of my vintage watches serviced, the watch makers leave a mark on the inside of the case.

cheers
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-06-2019   #2
ajtruhan
Registered User
 
ajtruhan is offline
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 140
https://www.photo.net/discuss/thread...-photo.467779/
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-06-2019   #3
splitimageview
Registered User
 
splitimageview is offline
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 2,036
no real way to verify. Some established techs will have a special unique wax seal, some don’t use a seal or just use plain wax, some will use a replica ‘L’ seal.
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-06-2019   #4
David Hughes
David Hughes
 
David Hughes's Avatar
 
David Hughes is offline
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,518
Best way is to ask to see the bill from whoever did it...


Regards, David
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-06-2019   #5
nickthetasmaniac
Registered User
 
nickthetasmaniac is offline
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek Leath View Post
Hello all.

I just purchased a nice M2, and it got me wondering if there is a way to tell if it has been service recently?
I know when I get one of my vintage watches serviced, the watch makers leave a mark on the inside of the case.

cheers

As David points out, the only definite way is to see a receipt for the service. If a seller claims a CLA but can't provide a receipt, you could possibly contact the repair tech and ask if they have worked on that camera (they should have serial numbers on record).


Many repair techs have the unique wax seal mentioned above, but that will only tell you that they serviced the camera, not when they serviced the camera.


FYI, I got my M2 back from the authorised Leica repair centre in Aus, and it has a 'L' seal.
__________________
Ricoh GRII | Pentax SV, SP-F, MX & LX | Leica M2 | Olympus Pen F + 35RD | Minolta Autocord | Hasselblad 500cm + SWC/m

Instagram @other_strange_creatures
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-06-2019   #6
Beemermark
Registered User
 
Beemermark's Avatar
 
Beemermark is offline
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Wilmington, NC
Posts: 1,746
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek Leath View Post
Hello all.

I just purchased a nice M2, and it got me wondering if there is a way to tell if it has been service recently?
I know when I get one of my vintage watches serviced, the watch makers leave a mark on the inside of the case.

cheers

The M2 is over 50 years old, so even if the seal has been replaced it could have been serviced 30 years ago.
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-06-2019   #7
Huss
Registered User
 
Huss is offline
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Venice, CA
Posts: 7,880
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Hughes View Post
Best way is to ask to see the bill from whoever did it...


Regards, David
Exactly. Unless the seller provides legit paperwork that can be verified from a legit service center, claiming a cla means squat.
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-07-2019   #8
brbo
Registered User
 
brbo's Avatar
 
brbo is offline
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,467
What's the point in knowing that?

It could be serviced yesterday and still not working properly. Or 20 years ago and still be good. What am I missing?
__________________

  Reply With Quote

Old 06-07-2019   #9
Dralowid
Michael
 
Dralowid's Avatar
 
Dralowid is offline
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 2,627
It matters little, if it works properly it doesn't need 'servicing' if it doesn't work properly it does.

I'm of the opinion that much of this so called 'servicing' or 'CLAing' does more harm than good.
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-07-2019   #10
xasthur
Registered User
 
xasthur is offline
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Long Beach CA.
Posts: 71
Well, I can understand why someone would ask this type of question. My first M2 purchase I was lied to, and was told it was CLA'd three months prior. Me never having held a M2 and not knowing what a serviced M2 felt like I believed the person.

Turns out the camera was not CLA'd at all. After I got the camera back from when I sent it to get it CLA'd, the difference was night and day as it was way smoother to advance and much quieter from when I originally got it.

So, I can see why someone would ask this question, but unfortunately I don't think there's a way to tell or be sure that a camera has been serviced or not, besides knowing how that particular camera feel and sounds when it has been serviced.
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-07-2019   #11
leicapixie
Registered User
 
leicapixie is offline
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Toronto.Canada
Posts: 1,613
My M3 bought brand new in 1967, arrived with parts missing.
The rangefinder was not operative, first repair immediately!
Yes! 3 Three signatures of "Quality Control".
Don't fret if camera body or lens serviced, they are old!
I still have 'ziggy' now 52 years in service, mostly pro work..
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-07-2019   #12
Out to Lunch
Registered User
 
Out to Lunch's Avatar
 
Out to Lunch is offline
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Vietnam
Posts: 5,514
Quote:
if it has been service recently
If 'recently', ask for a copy of the repair bill.
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-07-2019   #13
Derek Leath
Registered User
 
Derek Leath's Avatar
 
Derek Leath is offline
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 71
Thanks for all the great replies. The M seal is broken on my M2 and it has been re-skinned.
everything seems OK, and I have a roll of film in it for testing.
I guess I'll shoot it for now, then make a decision on who to send it to for CLA just to make sure.

Cheers
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-07-2019   #14
nickthetasmaniac
Registered User
 
nickthetasmaniac is offline
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,209
Quote:
Originally Posted by leicapixie View Post
Don't fret if camera body or lens serviced, they are old!
Isnít that the point though? Old mechanical things need servicing...
__________________
Ricoh GRII | Pentax SV, SP-F, MX & LX | Leica M2 | Olympus Pen F + 35RD | Minolta Autocord | Hasselblad 500cm + SWC/m

Instagram @other_strange_creatures
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-07-2019   #15
Derek Leath
Registered User
 
Derek Leath's Avatar
 
Derek Leath is offline
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 71
So true. Even us
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-07-2019   #16
Dralowid
Michael
 
Dralowid's Avatar
 
Dralowid is offline
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 2,627
Your avatar displays a vehicle that will give years and years of reliable service virtually untouched. When it finally has to go into a garage it may need to go back again to get niggles sorted.

It is much the same with an old mechanical Leica.
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-08-2019   #17
David Hughes
David Hughes
 
David Hughes's Avatar
 
David Hughes is offline
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,518
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dralowid View Post
Your avatar displays a vehicle that will give years and years of reliable service virtually untouched. When it finally has to go into a garage it may need to go back again to get niggles sorted.

It is much the same with an old mechanical Leica.

In fairness to the sellers; a lot of these long term users just don't notice things fading and so sell them as VGC and the next owner gets a shock and the seller gets a poor reputation. Get a complete check done on something like (for example) a Leica, for just what you think is a minor problem, and you'll be amazed at the list of faults and the vast improvement when you get it back.


Regards, David


PS One difference between LR's and Leicas is that the mud doesn't hold them together and stop the rust.
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-08-2019   #18
nickthetasmaniac
Registered User
 
nickthetasmaniac is offline
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dralowid View Post
Your avatar displays a vehicle that will give years and years of reliable service virtually untouched. When it finally has to go into a garage it may need to go back again to get niggles sorted.

It is much the same with an old mechanical Leica.

Hmmm I suspect there aren't many unserviced Series 3 Land Rovers (forgive me if I've got my Series mixed up) happily driving today...
__________________
Ricoh GRII | Pentax SV, SP-F, MX & LX | Leica M2 | Olympus Pen F + 35RD | Minolta Autocord | Hasselblad 500cm + SWC/m

Instagram @other_strange_creatures
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-08-2019   #19
Dralowid
Michael
 
Dralowid's Avatar
 
Dralowid is offline
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 2,627
I'm just trying to make people think twice about servicing...does it really need it?
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-08-2019   #20
zuiko85
Registered User
 
zuiko85 is offline
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,982
There is also this to consider. "Serviced" and "CLA" can be very loose terms, and often applied inaccurately.
I've sent my M4-2 to Youxin to have a specific issue sorted out. That cost only $125 and returned the camera to full use. But I would not term that a true 'CLA', just serviced to resolve a specific problem. The balance of the mechanics on the camera were operating within nominal limits.
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-11-2019   #21
Derek Leath
Registered User
 
Derek Leath's Avatar
 
Derek Leath is offline
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickthetasmaniac View Post
Hmmm I suspect there aren't many unserviced Series 3 Land Rovers (forgive me if I've got my Series mixed up) happily driving today...
The Avatar is not my Land Rover, but one I photographed.
I have a 1971 Series IIa 88
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_0333.jpg (49.0 KB, 20 views)
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-11-2019   #22
BillBlackwell
Registered User
 
BillBlackwell's Avatar
 
BillBlackwell is online now
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Orange County, CA
Age: 61
Posts: 895
The right question is rather or not the camera currently needs to be serviced, not necessarily if it has been recently serviced! If an M camera is properly serviced and used frequently, a CLA can last 20 years or more.

IMHO, pretty much the best way to tell is to listen to the slow speeds below 15th of a second - they should sound sure and confident. Plus, the 'proper' sound at 15th of a second is a very unique "snap, tap tap tap".

If the show speeds drag or hang up, and all you hear at 15th of a second is a solid snap - the lubrication is dry and your camera needs a CLA.

Also check the shutter curtain for pin holes; this is more common than you think!
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-15-2019   #23
Derek Leath
Registered User
 
Derek Leath's Avatar
 
Derek Leath is offline
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 71
At the lower speeds, I hear a spring like noise after the shutter closes.
Is that the tap tap tap?
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-15-2019   #24
Huss
Registered User
 
Huss is offline
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Venice, CA
Posts: 7,880
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek Leath View Post
At the lower speeds, I hear a spring like noise after the shutter closes.
Is that the tap tap tap?
Yes, there is a dragged on mechanical sound. Guess you could call it tapping.
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-15-2019   #25
BillBlackwell
Registered User
 
BillBlackwell's Avatar
 
BillBlackwell is online now
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Orange County, CA
Age: 61
Posts: 895
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huss View Post
Yes, there is a dragged on mechanical sound. Guess you could call it tapping.
The slow speeds below 15th of a second should sound sure and confident (you'll hear the "dragged on mechanical sound" after the shutter closes). The 'proper' sound at 15th of a second only has a very unique "snap, tap tap tap".
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-15-2019   #26
sara
Registered User
 
sara's Avatar
 
sara is offline
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: MY+LDN
Age: 32
Posts: 513
When I buy cameras, the seller usually tells me when it has been serviced (anyway, they should).
__________________
Hello
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-16-2019   #27
Rob-F
Likes Leicas
 
Rob-F's Avatar
 
Rob-F is offline
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: The Show Me state
Age: 78
Posts: 6,123
Quote:
Originally Posted by splitimageview View Post
no real way to verify. Some established techs will have a special unique wax seal, some donít use a seal or just use plain wax, some will use a replica ĎLí seal.
Which Leica techs have their own "L" seal?

I bought an M5 a few years ago with an intact "L" seal. No idea whether it might have been serviced by someone who had an "L" seal, or by Leica, although the seller said it had never been touched. However, it works just fine. Shutter speeds are good, finder is clear and bright.

So it would be interesting to know which techs have an "L" stamp.
__________________
May the light be with you.
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-16-2019   #28
Erik van Straten
Registered User
 
Erik van Straten's Avatar
 
Erik van Straten is offline
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 8,603
There are not many Leica M repairmen anymore. Last year died Scherpenborg from Nijmegen. He worked for ODIN, the Dutch Leica importer, and was trained at Leitz in Wetzlar. Later he worked for himself. I've seen him often working.

He used to mark the cameras and lenses he repaired in a way that only he could see it.

Erik.
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-16-2019   #29
splitimageview
Registered User
 
splitimageview is offline
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 2,036
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob-F View Post
Which Leica techs have their own "L" seal?
one is Gus Lazzari
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-16-2019   #30
nickthetasmaniac
Registered User
 
nickthetasmaniac is offline
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob-F View Post
So it would be interesting to know which techs have an "L" stamp.
Camera Clinic in Melbourne (authorised Leica repairer) have an 'L' stamp.
__________________
Ricoh GRII | Pentax SV, SP-F, MX & LX | Leica M2 | Olympus Pen F + 35RD | Minolta Autocord | Hasselblad 500cm + SWC/m

Instagram @other_strange_creatures
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 09:24.


vBulletin skin developed by: eXtremepixels
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

All content on this site is Copyright Protected and owned by its respective owner. You may link to content on this site but you may not reproduce any of it in whole or part without written consent from its owner.