Old 11-06-2017   #441
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Mine only came with a "Test Certificate", listing Service Number, Product, Serial Number, and Date: 10/27'2017. It says "This Leica product was tested and inspected by Leica factory trained technicians and found to meet all factory standards." Unfortunately it is silent as to whether that means the standards of 2011 or of 2017

Sensor aside, they certainly adjusted the rangefinder, and my CV 75 F1.8 is focusing perfectly wide open.
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Old 11-06-2017   #442
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Mine only came with a "Test Certificate", ... Unfortunately it is silent as to whether that means the standards of 2011 or of 2017

Sensor aside, they certainly adjusted the rangefinder, and my CV 75 F1.8 is focusing perfectly wide open.
Glad to hear they adjusted the rangefinder.

I agree that Test Certificate unfortunately gives you no assurance that the sensor was replaced

Why can't Leica be more clear on this when they send the cameras back?
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Old 11-07-2017   #443
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Lucky you to get to use an M240 loaner. Did Leica send it to you while your M9 is being repaired? I should have such luck!
Yes, I was very lucky. I am getting used to using the M240, which is "dangerous"! When I switch over to my M8, it feels like going from an SLR to a RF camera. Things are basic and I have to pick my images one at a time, slowly.
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Old 11-07-2017   #444
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The original Leica NJ communications with me had in it "damaged sensor". By default, getting the M9 repaired implies getting a new sensor. Having this done late in 2017 also implies that the sensor is the new type sensor.
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Old 11-07-2017   #445
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I believe the new sensor came out in mid-2015. So I'd think that any M9 accompanied by paper work dated from that date forward could be assumed to have the new sensor. It's probably even safer to think that any sensor replaced before then has merely a "new old" sensor, not a "new new" one.
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Old 11-07-2017   #446
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So now we have the categories:
1. new-old-sensor
2. new-new-sensor
3. old-old-sensor
4. old-new-sensor.

Good luck with convincing a prospective buyer of your M9 about your claims that your M9 have a "new new sensor".
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Old 11-07-2017   #447
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Sensor aside, they certainly adjusted the rangefinder, and my CV 75 F1.8 is focusing perfectly wide open.
My M-E never focused well wide open from new until the sensor replacement and included rf adjustment.
Which means they delivered a new camera to me w/ the rf improperly adjusted. Makes those quality check certificates they include w/ every new product seem pretty useless.
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Old 11-07-2017   #448
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So my M-E is back from it's vacation in NJ. Sent it in May 22nd, back in my hands September 25th, 16 weeks far better than the 25 weeks that had been quoted.
Well now I'm getting impatient for the return on my Monochrom. It was sent in more than 20 weeks ago, and while I did get a estimate that the repair would be free that was the last I heard.

What have other people experienced for NJ turnaround on Monochrom's.

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Old 11-07-2017   #449
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Well now I'm getting impatient for the return on my Monochrom. It was sent in more than 20 weeks ago, and while I did get a estimate that the repair would be free that was the last I heard.

What have other people experienced for NJ turnaround on Monochrom's.

Joe
Back in December 2016 I was told 10 weeks, but it ended up being 12 weeks. Realize that there is a holiday/New Year's shutdown that likely extended my turnaround.

Also the bottleneck with Monochrom's seems to be the supply of sensors. I suspect this still persists. I was able to take advantage of a waiting list to continue using my Monochrom for 4 months to avoid a 6 month wait.

Last night I was shooting my Monochrom and SL at the Brooklyn Accelerator. Really glad I still own my Monochrom. It may be very simple, basic, and primitive, but it is still a great camera with a unique rendering that I love.

My experience with Leica service has been positive, but I'm not dealing with this log-jam that currently exists. Mighty glad that I got my sensor replaced in a timely manner.

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Old 11-07-2017   #450
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Update

Joe and Cal,

I spoke to Leica NJ this morning. Mine is an MM as well and my repair order dates to May 23rd. They assured me they would be calling Germany specifically inquiring as to status on the shipment of those sensors. And I should be getting an email with info as soon as they have news to report.

Cal, the MM may be primitive but elegantly so!

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Old 11-07-2017   #451
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Cal, the MM may be primitive but elegantly so!

David
David,

That is its charm. Most like a film camera because it is so basic and elemental. Definitely a novel rendering. CCD sensors are more expensive to manufacture than CMOS, so it is unlikely another B&W only CCD camera will be made by Leica. No frills.

I love mine warts and all.

Mine is heavily used. The top plate shows wear through the black anodize and there is a nickel patina along the corners and edges.

The M-246 is a way more advanced camera.

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Old 11-07-2017   #452
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Leica has both my M-E and my MM. So it looking like it's going to be a while longer. My MM went in early June and my M-E in July when I picked up the M 10. I'm really hoping by New Year.
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Old 11-08-2017   #453
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Wow, David. 5+ months and still no MM sensor inventory. What is going on there?!
I suspect that since the CCD sensor in question is not used in current production cameras it is likely a special order item and requires a change in the production process to manufacture. So only available in batches and the batches are produced on an infrequent basis.
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Old 11-08-2017   #454
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... and it is for free. I can wait.
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Old 11-08-2017   #455
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Thanks for the responses and empathy! All that Leica glass just sitting! :-( I have to say all of the customer service folks have been very nice and taken time each time I phone to look into the status. I will for sure keep you all posted.
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Old 11-08-2017   #456
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I suspect that since the CCD sensor in question is not used in current production cameras it is likely a special order item and requires a change in the production process to manufacture. So only available in batches and the batches are produced on an infrequent basis.
I believe Luke's insight is true and valid. In particular it seems the Monochrom sensor is in the shortest supply.

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Old 11-08-2017   #457
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... and it is for free. I can wait.
Knowingly selling cameras with defective sensors, then replacing them and having them out of their owner's hands for months is not exactly 'free'.
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Old 11-08-2017   #458
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It does not bode well for the folks with < 5 year old cameras that corrode a year or two or three from now.
True, and I would add that the biggest losers in the sensor corrosion issue will most likely be those whose sensors didn't experience corrosion. Since many/most believe that all of them will eventually corrode, only those with Leica documented "corrosion proof" sensors will be able to get fair market value at sale time.
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Old 11-08-2017   #459
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John and Luke,

I thought that for sure I would be in that group who would find corrosion after the "deadline". So I went back for a third check and really looked. I had been mainly checking the "sky area", the upper part of images where sky was. Of course I was shooting directly into clear sky for the purpose of checking. When I finally found the spots, they appeared on the lower left on the frame and then I found others when I really magnified. I sent the cropped images to Dave at Leica repair, he confirmed and I was quite relieved to have found corrosion!

David
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Old 11-08-2017   #460
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I never found any signs of corrosion myself, but I sent my M9 to NJ Leica. They affirmed that the sensor was damaged.
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Old 11-09-2017   #461
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John and Luke,

I thought that for sure I would be in that group who would find corrosion after the "deadline". So I went back for a third check and really looked. I had been mainly checking the "sky area", the upper part of images where sky was. Of course I was shooting directly into clear sky for the purpose of checking. When I finally found the spots, they appeared on the lower left on the frame and then I found others when I really magnified. I sent the cropped images to Dave at Leica repair, he confirmed and I was quite relieved to have found corrosion!

David
David,

It is interesting to know that indications of sensor corrosion can be elusive. I have an Epson 7800 and I use Piezography to print up to 20x30's. I learned from printing that even with my EIZO dimmed down to 80 Lux in a darkened room that I could print what I couldn't see on my EIZO because more detail than displayed was in the print.

Also know that the blemishes were small, and even though when visible were always in the same areas (rather small amount of spotting), they didn't always appear. In other words while these artifacts were always in the same place their occurance seemed rather random.

My EIZO only displays a image size that is about a 13x19, but a 20x30 is a lot more magnification. Small defects and artifacts become very evident on large prints. A display is not the best way to detect corrosion.

Cal
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Old 11-18-2017   #462
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Hi, I'm a bit a novice when it comes to understanding the M9 sensor issues, but wanted to clarify that if I purchase an M9 that has had its sensor replaced, would the likelihood be that it wouldn't encounter the sensor corrosion issue in the future? Thanks for any insights
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Old 11-18-2017   #463
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scautez. You're in for a bit of difficulty. Others here might chime in.

There were sensor replacements using another old sensor, and then sensor replacements using the new sensor. I have no idea how to really tell which is which other than by date of replacement, and I would use a wide margin for the threshold date. Sensors replaced within the last year are likely safe. Older than that.....others might chime in.

My current understanding is that the older sensor is almost certain to eventually suffer the corrosion problem. If it didn't that would be because the camera was never used and stored in a controlled environment. I personally don't know any M9 owners who have not suffered the corrosion problem (with old sensors). Some of us weren't even sure we had the corrosion before sending the camera to Leica. I could be wrong about the inevitability of corrosion with older sensors. Others might chime in on this...

The problem you're probably going to encounter if you're interested in buying an M9 is that many sellers don't know if they have a new or old sensor, even if it has been replaced. Its not that they are being deceptive, they simply don't know. Leica appears to have been ambiguous in their repair descriptions. That brings me back to date. I would be pretty confident about a camera with repair paperwork within the year. Older than that....Others might chime in...
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Old 11-18-2017   #464
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Thanks so much for that insight rfaspen. I currently have an M8 and though it has some peculiarities of its own, I believe it's sensors are pretty stable. So I might just stick with the M8 until maybe the M10s become affordable in a few years
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Old 11-18-2017   #465
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I have an M-E that had its sensor replaced in the past. It is now at Leica NJ waiting for its second sensor since the first replacement was corroding.

As refasten mentioned, a repair within this current year is a far better bet than any other previous sensor replacement.
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Old 11-18-2017   #466
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It's likely the first time we have found ourselves actually hoping for a camera defect.

John
So true, John!

Like Raid, I was unable to detect evidence of corrosion on my MM sensor, but sent it in to have Leica confirm regardless. The mechanisms they employ did find corrosion - and so I wait (and wait) for replacement. I was relieved they did - having been spared the time-bomb of an expensive repair or yet another doorstop digital body to add to the pile some time in the future.
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Old 11-19-2017   #467
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Hi, I'm a bit a novice when it comes to understanding the M9 sensor issues, but wanted to clarify that if I purchase an M9 that has had its sensor replaced, would the likelihood be that it wouldn't encounter the sensor corrosion issue in the future? Thanks for any insights
I will think the likelihood of future corrosion is about the same as every other digital camera i.e. extremely low.

I suggest the M9 corrosion issue was driven by the physical restrictions of the M mount: the requirement to maintain classic M body aesthetics, achieve efficient IR transmission attenuation with the thinnest possible sensor cover glass and control material costs. In fact, the M8 and original M9 are significant engineering achievements given the mandate to adopt a body thickness as close as possible to film M bodies. Every mm was critical. It is not a coincidence both had issues with IR.

Obviously, the IR filter layer technology issue was solved with the M 240/262 and M10 sensor assemblies. Eventually, it was also corrected for the M9 cameras as well. Leica spent a lot of resources to ensure the new sensor's image aesthetics are similar to the original sensors'.
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Old 11-19-2017   #468
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I never found any signs of corrosion myself, but I sent my M9 to NJ Leica. They affirmed that the sensor was damaged.
Because of the way the cover in bound to sensor, imperceptible rot grows. Best have them look at it. I wonder if any of the original sensors will survive. It sounds like its 'genetics' make rot an eventuality.
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Old 11-22-2017   #469
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I will think the likelihood of future corrosion is about the same as every other digital camera i.e. extremely low...
Obviously, the IR filter layer technology issue was solved with the M 240/262 and M10 sensor assemblies. Eventually, it was also corrected for the M9 cameras as well...
I wish that was the case, but it seems that the sensor corrosion on these cameras is much like hard drive failure - either it has happened to you, or it will.
I do not think that any M9 or variant can be immune from this issue. I hope that this newest fix does fix the problem once and for all.

I have an M8 that is now going on 10 years. The shutter failed, and was fixed, but the sensor still remains corrosion-free. The camera is still in use without any of the weird quirks of its full-frame sibling. Same thing can be said for other Micro 4/3rds cameras and digital cameras that I own - they continue to work, well into many years of use.

The M-E, as mentioned, is now on its 2nd sensor - and only time will tell if this one will take since there is no guarantee or warranty after this. Leica may think that most owners will just grin and bear it for such an old (at that point) camera if there turn out to be additional issues with the sensors. I sure hope not, though.
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Old 11-26-2017   #470
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I got my MM back after a long wait but the wait was very rewarding.
The camera shines!
Thank you Leica! Greatly appreciated for the service.
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Old 11-28-2017   #471
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What to do:
I have an M9 body, which appears to have sensor issues.
Don't ask how i ended up with this after the deadline, but such is life.

I came back to this camera after its been sitting for a "while" ehhm, and notice there is a "water color paper" overlay on background areas. Leica service center said most likely a sensor corrosion issue, and that the camera's sn dates back to 2009, so highly unlikely it would be in the 5 years since new period (for the life of me i cannot find the order details or any paper work on this body), and that the cost would be 1000$ AND - at least end of march before the camera is returned due to the back ordered sensors, and back log of repairs on this problem.

So - whats the best course of action here?
Do i send the camera in and drop the dough? I was living just fine without this body all this time (Hexar RF doing just fine), and not sure spending yet more money on it, which will eventually depreciate as well, as with all digital cameras, is worth the effort.
On the other hand i do not want to get stuck with a brick.

Any and all ideas welcome!
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Old 11-28-2017   #472
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It would seem reasonable to get it fixed and then decide whether to keep it or sell it. Leica supposedly goes over the whole camera and makes it like new again. You could use it for a while and then see if it means enough to you to keep it. Personally I like the M9 quite a bit!
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Old 11-28-2017   #473
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Fix it, sell it. You'll be ahead by about $1500.

(if u have to pay for the repair. You never know, they may extend some good will)
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Old 11-28-2017   #474
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The M9 is a keeper! Fix it and use it it well. The dollars spent getting that camera up and running over time will pale compared to the joy of shooting and the images captured.
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Old 11-29-2017   #475
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What to do:
...
So - whats the best course of action here?
Do i send the camera in and drop the dough?
...
Tough call.

Think about how come you stopped using the M9. Unless your decision was flawed, sell it now.

I would put this camera on an online auction site and disclose in the clearest possible way the sensor needs to be replaced and you will not accept a return. With a reserve auction, you can control the economics of selling now vs fixing and then selling later. The camera's value is already compromised. If your reserve is not met, you can send it in and hope Leica cuts you a break. Maybe they will give you a discount on new M body (although that would not be an M9).

The reason I suggest this course of action is you are not using the M9. Fixing it and selling it just delays disposing of the camera for about 6 months. If I'm not using something I sell, donate or recycle it.

I just sent a large box of unused two Fujinon X-Series lenses and an X-T1 body to KEH. Of course, an X-T1 is nothing like an M9. But the principle (use it or get rid of it), is the same.

Also, this would not be an irreversible decision. A year from now if you realize you actually need an M9, you can find one with the new sensor and buy it.
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Old 12-01-2017   #476
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Anyone got their Monochrom back as of yet here in the USA?
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Old 12-01-2017   #477
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Yes, a few people who post on RFF have gotten theirs back.

My repair order is dated May 23 and I understand the next round of sensors for MM are not expected to arrive in New Jersey until January. They offered me an upgrade, but I just want my Monochrom back.

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Old 12-02-2017   #478
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Tough call.

Think about how come you stopped using the M9. Unless your decision was flawed, sell it now.

I would put this camera on an online auction site and disclose in the clearest possible way the sensor needs to be replaced and you will not accept a return. With a reserve auction, you can control the economics of selling now vs fixing and then selling later. The camera's value is already compromised. If your reserve is not met, you can send it in and hope Leica cuts you a break. Maybe they will give you a discount on new M body (although that would not be an M9).

The reason I suggest this course of action is you are not using the M9. Fixing it and selling it just delays disposing of the camera for about 6 months. If I'm not using something I sell, donate or recycle it.

I just sent a large box of unused two Fujinon X-Series lenses and an X-T1 body to KEH. Of course, an X-T1 is nothing like an M9. But the principle (use it or get rid of it), is the same.

Also, this would not be an irreversible decision. A year from now if you realize you actually need an M9, you can find one with the new sensor and buy it.
There is an M9 with the sensor issue on Fred Miranda for $1475. That's probably hard to swallow, but it's some indication of value. No idea what it will sell for though, so it might well be optimistic. I find it hard to believe that some one would want to buy one, pay $1000 for the sensor replacement, and then wait 4-6 months to get it back, so your best bet may be to bite the bullet, get it fixed, and then sell it. Leica has obviously put you in a bind by reneging on their lifetime warranty.
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Old 01-23-2018   #479
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So, has anyone been getting their monochom's back as of the last month or so?
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Old 01-26-2018   #480
ptpdprinter
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Join Date: Apr 2017
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As former member of RFF reached out to me to pass on his latest conversation with Leica NJ about the status of repairs. He has five MMs in for sensor replacements.

"The latest Leica NJ told me ( a few days ago) was they were working on the May / June cameras. They said once they finish up that group they will be on the July / August group. I had written them a few times over the course of this repair and was told it can take up to 20 weeks. Well, it has far surpassed that, so who knows when they will be returned. I had told them I was a loyal Leica user since the early 70's starting with the M2, M3 on up to the M6 and if they could at least one of my cams up a little on the repair line. But everyone must have to wait their turn."

It is no secret that the MM sensors are few and far between and his cameras will undoubtedly be among the last to be returned.
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