Rodinal / R09 Variants
Old 07-16-2018   #1
sepiareverb
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Rodinal / R09 Variants

Trying to get some definitive information on all the variants currently available. I currently use 'R09 One Shot' made by Compard KG. There is now Adox Rodinal, and while I've been in contact with ADOX they won't comment on any other manufacturer's versions. They did say "ADOX Rodinal is made acording to the latest Rodinal recipe from 1998" I would love to use the ADOX Rodinal to support ADOX, but the thought of doing yet another round of testing is really unappealing. I been burned out on testing for a while since the Ferrari P30 mess. Getting some clear answers to which versions are which formulas would be a help.

Anyone have an email address for Compard? Their online contact form requires a phone number, but won't let me enter a US phone number.
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Old 07-16-2018   #2
HHPhoto
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The original last / latest Agfa Rodinal formulary was produced in the former Agfa photo chemical plant in Vaihingen, Germany.
When they stopped production of photo chemistry there some years ago, ADOX has bought exactly that latest original formula.
So if you now buy ADOX Rodinal or ADOX Adonal, you get the real Agfa Rodinal.

Then there are other Rodinal 'clones':
- some are based on the former (about WW II time) Rodinal formulary
- then there is a Tetenal clone - Tetenal Paranol S - which is very similar to the last Agfa Rodinal, but not completely identical. Tetenal is also producing for other companies.

Compard has no own chemistry production. They are only a converting = bottling company. So their "R09 One Shot" is produced by a different company.

With ADOX Rodinal (Adonal) you are on the safe side. You get the real, original stuff / Agfa formulary.

Cheers, Jan
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Old 07-16-2018   #3
Freakscene
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sepiareverb View Post
Trying to get some definitive information on all the variants currently available. I currently use 'R09 One Shot' made by Compard KG. There is now Adox Rodinal, and while I've been in contact with ADOX they won't comment on any other manufacturer's versions. They did say "ADOX Rodinal is made acording to the latest Rodinal recipe from 1998" I would love to use the ADOX Rodinal to support ADOX, but the thought of doing yet another round of testing is really unappealing.
My LCMS and GCMS tell me that my bottles of R09 One Shot and Adox Rodinal are the same developer. I don’t think Compard are likely to tell you, nor, really, is there any reason why they should. If they seem amenable, ask them what their batch-to-batch QA/QC criteria are. That will probably make them jumpy.

There is much nonsense being promulgated about para-aminophenol developers, and a lot of it is more like faith healing than sensible photochemistry. What hydroxide you use doesn’t matter if the pH is the same, which isomer of aminophenol you use does, as does whether you use hydrochloride or base, as do other components that influence pH, including metabisulfite, which at very alkaline pH is converted to sulfite. I don’t think it eats the grain, because that seems oddly voodoo like to me too, but it does very much change the final pH of the developer. I’d show this experimentally but someone would argue with the results anyway, and no-one will pay for someone to do that sort of thing anymore.

I also have not tested the bottles. My Adox Rodinal is fine after quite some time (they were from just after it was released), but if yours dies after 2 months because the bottle does not keep it airtight, don’t blame me.

I hear you about testing. I tend to buy lots of everything. I did my intensive testing a little ng time ago. I now ‘test’ (usually shoot a 12 shot roll someplace unimportant but across a range of contrasts) before I move to any new component or batch of a product. Film and developer are the main influences. If you buy 250 rolls and a litre or two of Rodinal it’s a little ng time between tests.

Now that film photography is an alternative process, there is likely to be less consistency and more variation within and between batches of products into the future, but this is the best way to counter that.

Marty
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Old 07-16-2018   #4
Chriscrawfordphoto
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Adox also used to make another Rodinal called APH-09, which they claimed was the pre-WWII version. I bought some a couple yrs ago to try, but saw no real difference between it and the modern formula. My developing times from the modern stuff worked perfectly with the APH-09. Was kind of cool to be using such an old formula, but I see its been discontinued.
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Old 07-16-2018   #5
sepiareverb
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Appreciate the info!

Quote:
Originally Posted by HHPhoto View Post
The original last / latest Agfa Rodinal formulary was produced in the former Agfa photo chemical plant in Vaihingen, Germany.
When they stopped production of photo chemistry there some years ago, ADOX has bought exactly that latest original formula.
So if you now buy ADOX Rodinal or ADOX Adonal, you get the real Agfa Rodinal...

Cheers, Jan
This confirms what Mirko has told me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freakscene View Post
My LCMS and GCMS tell me that my bottles of R09 One Shot and Adox Rodinal are the same developer...

...I hear you about testing. I tend to buy lots of everything. I did my intensive testing a little ng time ago. I now ‘test’ (usually shoot a 12 shot roll someplace unimportant but across a range of contrasts) before I move to any new component or batch of a product. Film and developer are the main influences. If you buy 250 rolls and a litre or two of Rodinal it’s a little ng time between tests...

Marty
Thanks for this. I bulk buy most things, and I've jut opened my last bottle of R09, so am getting ready for another round of “Rodinal”.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriscrawfordphoto View Post
Adox also used to make another Rodinal called APH-09, which they claimed was the pre-WWII version. I bought some a couple yrs ago to try, but saw no real difference between it and the modern formula. My developing times from the modern stuff worked perfectly with the APH-09. Was kind of cool to be using such an old formula, but I see its been discontinued.
I do have one un-opened bottle of APH-09, maybe I will try the 12 exposure test with that.
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Old 07-16-2018   #6
Steve M.
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A few years ago I bought a bottle of the R09. Looking at my Tri-X negs, it sure seemed to be the original formula. But my bottle went off after only a few months. Others reported this problem. THe thread below has some good info on this developer, as well as a link on the end to a flickr discussion on this.

The old APUG site had lots of info too. That's my go to site for developer info and all things related to the darkroom. As I mentioned, it was a few years ago when I used it, so maybe they have made some changes on the longevity.

https://www.photo.net/discuss/thread...ne-bad.321953/
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Old 07-16-2018   #7
Bill Clark
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I still have plenty of APH-09.

Maybe it’s because I only do stand development with this developer.

What works for me is 6 ml of stock to 600 ml of water.

60 minutes time.

Haven’t tried other dilutions or quantity with each film.

Speed of film makes no difference. Same dilution same develop time.

More info here:

http://jbhildebrand.com/2011/tutoria...-with-rodinal/
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Old 07-16-2018   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve M. View Post
A few years ago I bought a bottle of the R09. Looking at my Tri-X negs, it sure seemed to be the original formula. But my bottle went off after only a few months...
I've been using the R09 One Shot and the R09 Spezial for years now. I always decant them into glass when I open a new bottle and give a spurt of Bloxygen into the bottle. I've never had them go bad, but then neither does DD-X or anything else using this method.
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Old 07-16-2018   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sepiareverb View Post
There is now Adox Rodinal, and while I've been in contact with ADOX they won't comment on any other manufacturer's versions. They did say "ADOX Rodinal is made acording to the latest Rodinal recipe from 1998" I would love to use the ADOX Rodinal to support ADOX, ........
Completely understandable motivation.
The guys at Adox really care for us film photographers. They are working so hard to build up their new, very modern factory for film, photo paper and photo chemistry production.
They really deserve our support.

By the way: Adox photo chemistry now has the best bottles on the market: There is a coating inside that avoids or at least slows down diffusion of oxygene through the PE plastics of the bottles.
Therefore you get increased shelf life with Adox chemicals.
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Old 07-16-2018   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skiff View Post
...
The guys at Adox really care for us film photographers. They are working so hard to build up their new, very modern factory for film, photo paper and photo chemistry production.
They really deserve our support...
Absolutely.

Didn’t know about the bottles. Decanting to glass is so ingrained in my workflow I don’t know that I could change that tho.
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Old 07-16-2018   #11
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I think it was the original plastic bottle that it came in that was the problem with mine. Should have put it in one of my good plastic bottles or glass. It sure made beautiful images while it lasted though! The first shot below was with a 35mm camera using Arista EDU Ultra 100 shot at 50 at 1:25 dilution, and the second shot was medium format using Shanghai film at the same dilution. I always used 1:25 with gentle inversions and got very little grain and sharp negs. For grain I used Tri-X full strength and gave it more oomph in the inversions. That gives you that Rodinal all over grain that is really neat. If you use the little magnifier glass on the first shot you can see some of that grain. It doesn't happen with MF.



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Old 07-16-2018   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sepiareverb View Post
Absolutely.

Didnít know about the bottles. Decanting to glass is so ingrained in my workflow I donít know that I could change that tho.

Well, using dark brown glass bottles is of course the perfect solution for developer storage. With glass there is absolutely no oxygene diffusion.
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