Go Back   Rangefinderforum.com > Cameras / Gear / Photography > Leicas and other Leica Mount Cameras > Leica M9 / ME

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes

It's been nice ... but I think we're through!
Old 05-05-2009   #1
Keith
On leave from Gallifrey
 
Keith's Avatar
 
Keith is online now
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 18,551
It's been nice ... but I think we're through!

The only real use my M8 has been getting lately has been shooting dimly lit gallery openings occasionally for the Creative Industries Faculty at the Queensland University Of Technology. The latest one was a nightmare of people, black spaces and brightly lit projection screens and monitors and the M8 did not cope very well at all. Dark noisy shadows at 640 ISO or blown out highlights from the screens and monitors and really only about fifty usable shots from the three hundred I took was the final analysis of a difficult shoot!

Where to now because I'm running out of tolerance for the camera's ability, or lack of I should say, to deal with these conditions. Yes sure it's unobtrusive in this environment and everyone knows that a rangefinder can be focused in light that you can barely read your shutter speed dial in but the end result is not good in these extreme light scenarios ... of which there will be more!

Maybe I need to consider a second hand 5D and a couple of fast primes ... or maybe give digital a miss totally and use 800 or 1600 colour film and benefit from the increased dynamic range it will give me and just let the education department wear the extra cost if they will?

And no ... I can't use a flash!
__________________
---------------------------
flickr
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-05-2009   #2
HuubL
hunter-gatherer
 
HuubL's Avatar
 
HuubL is offline
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Netherlands
Age: 67
Posts: 2,360
Keith, If you mainly use your M8 for the kind of work you describe, I think you're better off with a 5D(II). Reasons (in decreasing order of importance): better high iso, full frame, lenses with IS, no IR filters and CHEAPER.
__________________
Grain, not Noise!
My cameras
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-05-2009   #3
Keith
On leave from Gallifrey
 
Keith's Avatar
 
Keith is online now
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 18,551
Quote:
Originally Posted by HuubL View Post
Keith, If you mainly use your M8 for the kind of work you describe, I think you're better off with a 5D(II). Reasons (in decreasing order of importance): better high iso, full frame, lenses with IS, no IR filters and CHEAPER.

My problem here will be lack of budget for a 5D II which is why I though of the earlier model ... which I hear is still pretty damned good to 1600 ISO. If I switch to something else for these gigs I'm currently limited finacially to what I can get for my M8 as a sale or possible exchange!
__________________
---------------------------
flickr
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-05-2009   #4
P. Lynn Miller
Registered User
 
P. Lynn Miller's Avatar
 
P. Lynn Miller is offline
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 787
Keith,

Take one of your OM's with the Zuiko 50/1.2 and load it with Fuji Press 1600 and pushed one stop to 3200. The results will astound you. Fuji Natura 1600 is even better in low-light at 3200.
__________________

P. Lynn Miller
Sydney, Australia

I have one of those Flickr thingy's...
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-05-2009   #5
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
 
jaapv's Avatar
 
jaapv is offline
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Hellevoetsluis, Netherlands
Posts: 8,384
You don't need a Canon - you need a Fuji S5Pro.....
__________________
Jaap

jaapvphotography
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-05-2009   #6
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
 
jaapv's Avatar
 
jaapv is offline
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Hellevoetsluis, Netherlands
Posts: 8,384
Quote:
Originally Posted by P. Lynn Miller View Post
Keith,

Take one of your OM's with the Zuiko 50/1.2 and load it with Fuji Press 1600 and pushed one stop to 3200. The results will astound you. Fuji Natura 1600 is even better in low-light at 3200.
Yeah - the grain will make the M8 Iso 2500 look like a baby's bottom...
__________________
Jaap

jaapvphotography
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-05-2009   #7
P. Lynn Miller
Registered User
 
P. Lynn Miller's Avatar
 
P. Lynn Miller is offline
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 787
Well, since I have never used an M8 and probably never will since an M8 is way out of my budget and no one I know will lend me one to use for a day or two, I will take your word for it.
__________________

P. Lynn Miller
Sydney, Australia

I have one of those Flickr thingy's...
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-05-2009   #8
StanSmith
Registered User
 
StanSmith is offline
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaapv View Post
Yeah - the grain will make the M8 Iso 2500 look like a baby's bottom...
With our without the diaper rash?
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-05-2009   #9
Harry Lime
Practitioner
 
Harry Lime's Avatar
 
Harry Lime is offline
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Here and there
Posts: 1,674
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith View Post
My problem here will be lack of budget for a 5D II which is why I though of the earlier model ... which I hear is still pretty damned good to 1600 ISO. If I switch to something else for these gigs I'm currently limited finacially to what I can get for my M8 as a sale or possible exchange!
Nikon D700 prices have come down a little and in general it's cheaper than the 5DII.

I have the D700 and the darn thing can see in the dark. Seriously, I was amazed, when I saw the first RAW files. The metering system is also far superior to my old 5D, which I sold to finance the D700. Dynamic range is excellent for a digital (almost 9 stops) and the thing is built like a tank (also weathersealed).

You can also get some highspeed manual focus Nikkors cheaply, maybe even go for the Zeiss ZF 1.4/50mm. That is one of the main reasons why I got the Nikon and sold the Canon. I'm used to shooting manual focus lenses from Leicas and this was a seamless and painless transition. It's great to be able to scale focus at high iso with full matrix metering.

Last edited by Harry Lime : 05-05-2009 at 01:25.
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-05-2009   #10
HuubL
hunter-gatherer
 
HuubL's Avatar
 
HuubL is offline
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Netherlands
Age: 67
Posts: 2,360
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaapv View Post
You don't need a Canon - you need a Fuji S5Pro.....
Perhaps better (marginally) dynamic range, but not full-frame!

Keith, you probably can buy a new 5DII for what you get back for the M8... body for body, of course. If you don't already have some Canon glass, that would need some extra investment though.
__________________
Grain, not Noise!
My cameras
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-05-2009   #11
Keith
On leave from Gallifrey
 
Keith's Avatar
 
Keith is online now
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 18,551
The new Nikon D700 and Canon 5D mark II run much the same price here I notice and that's not far off $4000.00 AUD just for a body!

I don't want to be too hard on the M8 here because it's a great camera but in the described conditions it's not cutting it and the balancing act between getting some shadow detail but not blowing out all the screens and monitors is taxing my patience ... and abilities! It's really important in the results I present to the Uni that the screen contents are clear and visible ... the patrons and surrounds can be shadowy but the end result needs to satisfy the artists involved and the department ... and they want to see what's being shown.

I really don't use the M8 for much else these days as I'm pretty committed to film for most of my photography and only dust the Leica off for these occasional paid gigs as they must be in colour and as much as not all of them have such extreme conditions, a lot do! The other issue I have is the white balance performance, in these circumstances it's all over the place ... I've tried just setting it to tungsten and sorting it all out later in PS but that hasn't been successful either to be honest!
__________________
---------------------------
flickr

Last edited by Keith : 05-05-2009 at 01:52.
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-05-2009   #12
Pickett Wilson
Registered User
 
Pickett Wilson's Avatar
 
Pickett Wilson is offline
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,848
The 5D will work great for what you want to do. I have both the 5D and 5D MkII and while the MKII is an incredible camera, the original is a camera I still use as often as the new one. It's a good camera, Keith, especially at the prices you can find on them now. Slap the ST-E2 in the hot shoe and it will autofocus perfectly in total darkness at the distances you are working in the gallery.
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-05-2009   #13
P. Lynn Miller
Registered User
 
P. Lynn Miller's Avatar
 
P. Lynn Miller is offline
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 787
Keith,

I just reread your original post and realised what you are trying to achieve. There is will be big difference in the light coming from the monitors and screens and surrounding room. And if the screens and monitors are the most important part of the finished image then you need to meter for them, not the surrounding ambient lighting.

Try using a spot meter on the screens and monitors, then open a stop or two to bring them above middle-gray. I am guessing if you did this, you could even pull the ISO on the M8 back to 400ISO which would help your noise in the shadows.

I still recommend that you take along an OM body with the 50/1.2 and if the grain of the Fuji 1600 is a worry, then use Fuji 800 or Porta 800, which has a huge latitude and nicely controlled grain. With film you will shoot less, but once you dial in your exposure with a experimental roll and good meter, you will have many more keepers.

I would not throw the M8 out yet, but I would not be afraid to give film a try either...
__________________

P. Lynn Miller
Sydney, Australia

I have one of those Flickr thingy's...

Last edited by P. Lynn Miller : 05-05-2009 at 02:40.
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-05-2009   #14
Sparrow
Registered User
 
Sparrow's Avatar
 
Sparrow is offline
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Perfidious Albion
Age: 67
Posts: 12,451


fuji 400, can't remember the speed or stop
__________________
Regards Stewart

Stewart McBride

RIP 2015



You’re only young once, but one can always be immature.

flickr stuff
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-05-2009   #15
monochromejrnl
Registered User
 
monochromejrnl is offline
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Toronto, ON Canada
Posts: 821
if you can't afford to own the camera you need for this type of paid work, then perhaps you should rent what you need, when you need it and expense the cost of the rental to the client...
__________________
here is the dilemma and the strength of photography... it is the easiest medium in which to be competent, but it is the hardest medium in which to have a personal vision that is readily identifiable... Chuck Close

we search for truth, sometimes we find beauty - Lisette Model
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-05-2009   #16
Trius
Waiting on Maitani
 
Trius's Avatar
 
Trius is offline
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Rochester, NY & Toronto area
Posts: 8,257
I'm relieved, Keith. When I read the thread title I thought maybe you were leaving RFF.

Maybe do what Lynn suggests AND take the M8 and meter for the screen as well. If the OM/Fuji works well, then a good OM-4 might be a consideration, as it has great spot metering.

I also think the Nikon desrves some thought. See Mike Johnston's comments on his blog. As mentioned, good older Nikon glass is easy to get.
__________________
My Gallery Flickr
Fine grain is a bourgeois concept

Happiness is APX100 and Rodinal 1:100

A bunch o cameras. Does it really matter?
And NOW ... Fuji X-Pro1 w/ 18-55, 18/2 & adapted Zuikos and Hexanons
http://zuikoholic.tumblr.com
https://www.instagram.com/e.r.dunbar/
http://weedram.blogspot.com

Last edited by Trius : 05-05-2009 at 03:23.
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-05-2009   #17
ChrisN
Striving
 
ChrisN's Avatar
 
ChrisN is offline
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Canberra
Posts: 4,436
Keith, wait for the new Pentax dSLR that is due for official release on the 21st. The rumours (here) have it very highly placed in the pecking order, and you would have access to their lovely prime FA lenses that worked with either a film body or the cropped dSLR sensor. 31/1.8 Limited (auto focus), 35/2 AL (auto focus), 50/1.4 (auto focus), 50/1.2 (manual focus), 77/1.8 Limited (auto focus). If Pentax have sorted out the high-iso noise issue it could be a real contender!
__________________
Chris


"The mission of photography is to explain man to man and each to himself. And that is the most complicated thing on earth."
Edward Steichen

RFF Gallery

Flickr
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-05-2009   #18
Frank Petronio
-
 
Frank Petronio's Avatar
 
Frank Petronio is offline
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Rochester, NY, USA
Posts: 1,869
Even a D90 or D300 or 50D (or whatever comes next) would give you a couple of stops over the M8.

I can't believe that there is any high ISO film that will out perform a current digital SLR at the same ISO. You use fast color film for the way it degrades, not in the sense of capturing "more" information.
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-05-2009   #19
Trius
Waiting on Maitani
 
Trius's Avatar
 
Trius is offline
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Rochester, NY & Toronto area
Posts: 8,257
Frank,

I was wondering about that. I think Keith also has concerns about fast primes that he can afford and not having to worry about crop factor ... Not to mention easier focusing with a "full frame" sensor body.
__________________
My Gallery Flickr
Fine grain is a bourgeois concept

Happiness is APX100 and Rodinal 1:100

A bunch o cameras. Does it really matter?
And NOW ... Fuji X-Pro1 w/ 18-55, 18/2 & adapted Zuikos and Hexanons
http://zuikoholic.tumblr.com
https://www.instagram.com/e.r.dunbar/
http://weedram.blogspot.com
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-05-2009   #20
P. Lynn Miller
Registered User
 
P. Lynn Miller's Avatar
 
P. Lynn Miller is offline
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 787
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Petronio View Post
I can't believe that there is any high ISO film that will out perform a current digital SLR at the same ISO. You use fast color film for the way it degrades, not in the sense of capturing "more" information.
I was merely suggesting an alternate method that did not require buying a new camera, as I know Keith already owns and uses an OM-series and a Zuiko 50/1.2. As I stated before... I have never used an M8, but I have used a Nikon D70 and D300 extensively, and Fuji Press 1600 will beat both of them hands down at ISO1600 and the D300 is no match for the Fuji Natura 1600 when both are used at ISO3200. Now the D3 is another story... but the D3 is neither quiet or unobstrusive while an OM-series camera will rival a Leica M in that department.

But it would seem to me that some of the problems that Keith is reporting could solved with more careful metering. Even with the forgiving latitude of color negative film, if you are metering for the shadows, you will blow out point-sources of light which is what monitors and screens can be.
__________________

P. Lynn Miller
Sydney, Australia

I have one of those Flickr thingy's...
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-05-2009   #21
gavinlg
Registered User
 
gavinlg's Avatar
 
gavinlg is online now
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Wellington NZ
Posts: 5,062
Keith go a second hand 5d mk1. I can promise you that for the price there is nothing that will touch it in image quality. The mk2 is slightly better in most ways but not worth the extra few thousand if it's not your primary camera.

My advice would be to get:
an original 5d
canon 28mm f1.8
canon 50mm f1.4
canon 85mm f1.8
- or any of those lenses.

Reason for choosing those particular lenses is the ultrasonic motors (USM) which will improve focussing in the dark by a huge amount. If you're willing to spend on some superb lenses, look at the 24mm f1.4L, 35mm f1.4L, 50mm f1.2L etc etc. They're near unmatched in the low-light digital world.

I'll do you a favor and post some shots from my 5d + 50mm 1.2L @ 3200 iso in an hour or so.
__________________
NO PRAISE
@gavinlagrange
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-05-2009   #22
P. Lynn Miller
Registered User
 
P. Lynn Miller's Avatar
 
P. Lynn Miller is offline
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 787
Gavin,

You and Keith are both in the same locale, so... let Keith borrow your 5D and 50/1.2 the next time he has this assignment. You may even get lucky and Keith will let you use his M8...
__________________

P. Lynn Miller
Sydney, Australia

I have one of those Flickr thingy's...
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-05-2009   #23
jarski
Registered User
 
jarski's Avatar
 
jarski is offline
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,538
perhaps its just matter of checking other lens options for M8 ?

swapping to another camera systems is always expensive.
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-05-2009   #24
Keith
On leave from Gallifrey
 
Keith's Avatar
 
Keith is online now
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 18,551
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trius View Post
I'm relieved, Keith. When I read the thread title I thought maybe you were leaving RFF.

Maybe do what Lynn suggests AND take the M8 and meter for the screen as well. If the OM/Fuji works well, then a good OM-4 might be a consideration, as it has great spot metering.

I also think the Nikon desrves some thought. See Mike Johnston's comments on his blog. As mentioned, good older Nikon glass is easy to get.

I do meter for the screens and always take a few test shots and chimp to check the results. Can't see the people in the shadows to speak of so open up a stop or so and the screens become un-recoverable very quickly. I tend to recover detail from the shadows instead and attempt to deal with the noise but it doesn't always look particularly nice ... it's a compromise and it's being created by the Leica's poor high ISO performance.

A Nikon D700 would be appropriate as I had a D70 for several years and liked the menus and layout etc ... maybe I'll stumble over someone who's over the DSLR thing and would like to move to a digital rangefinder for a change and we can do a deal.!

My next sorte for the institute is at least six weeks away at the moment so I have plenty of time to think about this.
__________________
---------------------------
flickr
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-05-2009   #25
Keith
On leave from Gallifrey
 
Keith's Avatar
 
Keith is online now
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 18,551
Quote:
Originally Posted by jarski View Post
perhaps its just matter of checking other lens options for M8 ?

swapping to another camera systems is always expensive.
I do all my shooting in this environment with a 35mm Nokton ... there is no faster lens in this focal length and it would be impossible to use anything longer in the space I have to work in!
__________________
---------------------------
flickr
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-05-2009   #26
FrankS
Registered User
 
FrankS's Avatar
 
FrankS is offline
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Canada, eh.
Age: 62
Posts: 19,391
HI Keith, perhaps learning to use "layers" effectively in Photoshop (I do not/can not) may be your answer to handle the dynamic range.
__________________
my little website: http://frankfoto.jimdo.com/

photography makes me happy
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-05-2009   #27
HuubL
hunter-gatherer
 
HuubL's Avatar
 
HuubL is offline
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Netherlands
Age: 67
Posts: 2,360
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankS View Post
HI Keith, perhaps learning to use "layers" effectively in Photoshop (I do not/can not) may be your answer to handle the dynamic range.
Good HDR (if there is such a thing ) requires multiple exposures of the same scene. I don't see how that could be achieved in an environment that Keith shoots in. There is the possibility to work with differently treated layers of the same image, but the results look very unrealistic and flat.
__________________
Grain, not Noise!
My cameras
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-05-2009   #28
JoeV
Thin Air, Bright Sun
 
JoeV's Avatar
 
JoeV is offline
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Albuquerque, NM, USA
Posts: 1,702
I doubt that a new camera will solve Keith's problem with this particular shoot. He can always rent a camera to find out, though. I would suggest exposing for the monitors and use fill flash in this situation, to give enough extra light so as to see the people. At the slow shutter speeds you're using in this situation flash sync should not be a problem with the M8.

Sometimes it's not the camera that's at fault, it's just rubbing up against the laws of physics. You need more light on the subject.

~Joe
__________________
"If your eye is clear, your whole body will be full of light"

Inventor of the Light Pipe Array
My Blog
My latest book
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-05-2009   #29
P. Lynn Miller
Registered User
 
P. Lynn Miller's Avatar
 
P. Lynn Miller is offline
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 787
This badly represents what I think Keith is trying to achieve...



Now before everyone brings the house down, this strip of negatives is old Fuji Press 1600 pushed to 6400, shot meter-less(guesstimate) with my Nikon F with a Nikkor 50/1.2(I think) and very badly scanned on a flatbed scanner in low-resolution as contact sheet.

The artworks were back-light transparencies that were very bright and the rest of the room was very dark, like so dark that the official event photographers had to ask to have lights turned up just abit so they could shoot, and they were using D3's.

I did do decent scans of a few of these negatives and the details of the artwork is all there(could not find the scans at the moment). So there is no reason that with fresh color negative film, say unpushed ISO400 or even 800, with good metering and careful scanning cannot easily and comfortably deliver the goods.
__________________

P. Lynn Miller
Sydney, Australia

I have one of those Flickr thingy's...

Last edited by P. Lynn Miller : 05-05-2009 at 05:54.
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-05-2009   #30
johannielscom
Ich bin ein Barnacker
 
johannielscom's Avatar
 
johannielscom is offline
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Universitas Terre Threntiae
Posts: 7,346
Quote:
Originally Posted by HuubL View Post
Good HDR (if there is such a thing ) requires multiple exposures of the same scene. I don't see how that could be achieved in an environment that Keith shoots in. There is the possibility to work with differently treated layers of the same image, but the results look very unrealistic and flat.
Not HDR is meant but creating layers from a single image. Here's how you proceed: clone the original layer and change it's blending to 'Overlay'. Your image instantly becomes a lot darker and colors get saturated. Now, use the 'opacity'slider to decide how much of the original layer you want to show through. This provides for an easy lighting correction. The slider can be found in the 'Layers' floating menu.

Before I get to this stage, I usually even out the curve to what I need in Lightroom. I find it works far easier there than it does in PS. Next, open the file in PS and perform the above mentioned.

Here's a short from PS showing it:


There's a number of blends you can choose from, and they all have their own advantages at certain raw shots. Remember, you can always reverse the action with Ctrl-Z or multiple actions with Ctrl-Alt-Z

Slightly OT, but important none the less: I have noticed more than once that we all agree film should be developed, but the digital sections on this forum are only for digital printing, scanner software, photo software, but no digi-developing it seems, maybe we should get into that more. Bartender?
__________________
Gegroet,
Johan Niels

I write vintage gear reviews on www.johanniels.com |

flickr | instagram |

Last edited by johannielscom : 05-05-2009 at 05:28. Reason: added instruction JPEG
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-05-2009   #31
momus1
Registered User
 
momus1 is offline
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 63
I think you've answered your own question. Shoot film. I was at the local Cinco de Mayo festival over the weekend and thought, since I normally only shoot B&W film, I'll just bring the wife's digital for the Flamenco dancers. Boy I wish I hadn't! The pics I got are great, but they look less than ideal because they're digital files. If I had been smart enough to load the R-5 w/ some Fuji Pro color film I would be sitting pretty. And as you know, once the opportunity's gone, it's gone. When you want the very best, shoot film. Yeah, I know, I know. Yada yada digital voodoo humbug. Bull. Just try it. The quality is better.
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-05-2009   #32
johannielscom
Ich bin ein Barnacker
 
johannielscom's Avatar
 
johannielscom is offline
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Universitas Terre Threntiae
Posts: 7,346
Quote:
Originally Posted by P. Lynn Miller View Post
This badly represents what I think Keith is trying to achieve...



Now before everyone brings the house down, this strip of negatives is old Fuji Press 1600 pushed to 6400, shot meter-less(guesstimate) with my Nikon F with a Nikkor 50/1.2(I think) and very badly scanned on a flatbed scanner in low-resolution as contact sheet.

The artworks were back-light transparencies that were very bright and the rest of the room was very dark, like so dark that the official event photographers had to ask to have lights turned up just abit so they could shoot, and they were using D3's.

I did do decent scans of a few of these negatives and the details of the artwork is all there(could not find the scans at the moment). So there is no reason that with fresh color negative film, say unpushed ISO400 or even 800, with good metering and careful scanning cannot easily and comfortably deliver the goods.
Using the technique listed earlier, I have come up with this:

Getting to the right colors is a bit tricky (near impossible) when starting out with an internet JPEG, but there certainly is more detail to be had with the Lightroom-Photoshop approach. Especially with the right hand picture, where there is even the portraits background recorded in the shot, using the appropriate technique brings it back out again.

Keith, you can send me a DNG if you like, I'll love to have a go at it!
__________________
Gegroet,
Johan Niels

I write vintage gear reviews on www.johanniels.com |

flickr | instagram |
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-05-2009   #33
maddoc
... likes film.
 
maddoc's Avatar
 
maddoc is offline
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: 名古屋
Age: 53
Posts: 7,297
I would use (get) a CV Nokton 35/1.2 and Fuji Neopan Superpresto 1600PR and / or Fuji Natura N1600 for this kind of shooting. Since I don't have that lens I either use my 35/1.4 or 50/1.0 instead. From my experience, film can handle high contrast situations with large dark areas quite well.
__________________
- Gabor

flickr
pBase
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-05-2009   #34
P. Lynn Miller
Registered User
 
P. Lynn Miller's Avatar
 
P. Lynn Miller is offline
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 787
Johan,

You are going to force me to break out the scanner tonight... aren't you?
__________________

P. Lynn Miller
Sydney, Australia

I have one of those Flickr thingy's...
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-05-2009   #35
NathanJD
Registered User
 
NathanJD's Avatar
 
NathanJD is offline
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Pontypridd, South Wales, UK
Age: 36
Posts: 446
The beauty of RAW files is that you can change the exposure after shooting.

Landscape photographers often expose twice in difficult light situations - once for the foreground and once for the sky. RAW allows you to do this with one image by exposing for each and layering the 2 exposures and then using the erase tool to remove the sky/land from the top image revealing the properly exposed section behind it in place.

Such a method should achieve what you're after Keith if you create one image dedicated to the highlights and another to the low light sections of those images - after all - all of these advancements in RAW/digi cams/photoshop are to aid such difficult lighting situations.

also, have you ever used a noise reduction program called noise ninja?
__________________
Gear:
Leica M2
Oly OM-2n
Oly E-P1
Yashica Electro 35 GSN
Nikon D40
+ some FSUs

My Flickr

Last edited by NathanJD : 05-05-2009 at 07:42.
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-05-2009   #36
pphuang
brain drain...
 
pphuang's Avatar
 
pphuang is offline
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: New York
Posts: 360
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaapv
You don't need a Canon - you need a Fuji S5Pro.....
Perhaps better (marginally) dynamic range, but not full-frame!
You've obviously never shot with an S5Pro
__________________
Paul

RFF Feedback
Flickr

  Reply With Quote

Old 05-05-2009   #37
gavinlg
Registered User
 
gavinlg's Avatar
 
gavinlg is online now
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Wellington NZ
Posts: 5,062
Keith,

These were taken in extreme darkness with my 5d and my old 50mm f1.2L. (I sold that lens to an rff member in the US due to money problems, not because I wanted to get rid of it - best 50mm lens I've ever used.)



ISO 3200, f1.2, 1/80th


ISO 1600, f1.2, 1/30th


ISO 3200, f1.2


I've found the 5d to cope extremely well in badly lit areas, especially where there are extremes of lighting. I personally thought the camera handled pictures above pretty amazingly considering they're shot in near darkness with stage lights going off left right and center. I love the look of fuji 1600 films, but for commercial/client commissioned work the 5d spanks film. I would normally let you borrow the 5d to have a play with for a week or so, but I've been using it quite heavily recently and can't really be without it for more than a day.

Keep in mind the d700 is as good or better than the original 5d, just a lot more expensive, and lacking many decent fast AF-s (needed for fast and accurate low light AF) primes
__________________
NO PRAISE
@gavinlagrange
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-05-2009   #38
gavinlg
Registered User
 
gavinlg's Avatar
 
gavinlg is online now
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Wellington NZ
Posts: 5,062
Quote:
Originally Posted by pphuang View Post
You've obviously never shot with an S5Pro
The s5 Pro is pretty amazing with DR at low ISOs, but its lead trails off as the ISOs go up... Also noise characteristics don't match the 5d.
__________________
NO PRAISE
@gavinlagrange
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-05-2009   #39
novum
Registered User
 
novum's Avatar
 
novum is offline
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Austin/HCMC
Posts: 216
[quote=P. Lynn Miller;1047253]This badly represents what I think Keith is trying to achieve...



Forgive me, but I would have focused on those legs, too!
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-05-2009   #40
user237428934
User deletion pending
 
user237428934 is offline
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,684
Quote:
Originally Posted by fdigital View Post
The s5 Pro is pretty amazing with DR at low ISOs, but its lead trails off as the ISOs go up... Also noise characteristics don't match the 5d.
That's right. The S5 is still a crop camera and can't compete with a 5D regarding high ISO capabilities.
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 22:04.


vBulletin skin developed by: eXtremepixels
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

All content on this site is Copyright Protected and owned by its respective owner. You may link to content on this site but you may not reproduce any of it in whole or part without written consent from its owner.