Old 01-08-2010   #81
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got it posted on another thread... but this one seems the oldest (see "just a very old one")

leica I Nr 1505 converted to III (Prewar conversion) and with a flash synch (that looks factory to me but pre IIIf... see the gear at the bottom of the camera)

works perfectly...
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Old 01-09-2010   #82
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ca. 1930 Leica I ---> II
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Old 06-12-2010   #83
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To celebrate the return of this thread herewith a IIIc converted to the equivalent of a IIIf black dial with self timer. As you can see it shows the scars of a hard life. Vulcanite has a 'vertical' texture, shutter release collar is wrong.

One can only surmise that the owner at time of conversion was attached to this camera, I suspect it would have been quite an expensive conversion of what was, in Leica terms, a fairly new camera.

The Summarit is clear and results are excellent. The filter comes from a 65mm Elmar, the only other Leica lens that uses this size.

The camera is yet to be cleaned and sorted, sounds 'dry' but everything works after a fashion.

Michael
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Old 06-12-2010   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzardkid View Post
What was the reason for the different approach between IIIa and IIIc when upgrading to IIIf?
IIIa were not upgraded to IIIf, but to IIa-syn or IIIa-syn cameras. Conversion from IIIa to IIIc or IIIf was not possible, due to the fundamental differences between I, II, III, IIIa and IIIb cameras and IIIc and IIIf cameras.

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Old 06-13-2010   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik van Straten View Post
IIIa were not upgraded to IIIf, but to IIa-syn or IIIa-syn cameras. Conversion from IIIa to IIIc or IIIf was not possible, due to the fundamental differences between I, II, III, IIIa and IIIb cameras and IIIc and IIIf cameras.

Erik.
Dank je, Erik!

So, it's a IIIa-syn now. So, is this a much-performed upgrade, or a rare one?

My camera currently is without coverings, the vulcanite came off and I'm considering the olive green leather a fellow member sent me as a gift. I will put an M4 film dial on the back, since I keep forgetting what speed film I loaded into my cameras if there's no reminder.

In the end the complete set will consist of the IIIa-syn with M4 dial, a 1951 Korean war Serenar 28/3.5, the 1943 CZJ 50/1.5 with aluminium lens hood, the SCNOO and the olive green leather strap Robert made me.



Sorry, bit OT.
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Old 06-13-2010   #86
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Originally Posted by buzzardkid View Post
So, it's a IIIa-syn now. So, is this a much-performed upgrade, or a rare one?
Not really rare. In the fifties flash was very popular, so many owners had their prewar Leicas upgraded. Black IIIa-syn cameras however are seldom seen.

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Old 06-20-2010   #87
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Here we have a Ia converted to Ic.

Both lens and camera converted. No infinity lock or s/n on lens. Camera 28xxx has small 'O' on lens flange. Note that lens flange and camera flange are not the same diameter. Shutter release collar is a bicycle part...

Camera came with the bunch of extras illustrated plus a lot of Leitz literature and brochures c 1929 plus details of owners, hotel receipts etc.
IMG_0122.jpg
Particularly scary is the the flash arrangement, quite whether I am brave enough to light the strip (phosphorus?) is another matter entirely.

The camera is covered in leather, an old job well done but I wonder when?

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Old 06-20-2010   #88
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Sorry, I meant magnesium not phosphorous.

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Old 06-27-2010   #89
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[IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Michael/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot-7.png[/IMG]

24650 is a Leica I converted post war to a Leica II without synchronisation but using the 'higher' top housing usually associated with synchronised conversions. Although I have posted this camera before it has just returned from a period of r & R at CRR with blinds and beamsplitter replaced. It now sports a coated nickel Summar since these appear to be all the rage this season!

However, it is a repaint from the '80s as mentioned on the George Carr thread and shows signs of paintstaking but presumably amateur work which really doesn't stand up to close scrutiny. Brushing cellulose I think.

Michael
(if the pic doesn't show, let me know)
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Old 12-18-2010   #90
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Ok here's mine, 1932 Leica II -> Leica IIa synch.

I especially like this cam since its piano paint really matches the Millenium and further since its a bp Leica II that has the ability of using flash.

But further of course these types are so nice since they raise quite some historic questions e.g.:

1. Did the postwar conversion of bp Leicas indeed included a change of the body shell and bottom-plate? It seems that the plate and shell differ from the original Leica II.

2. Was the conversion of a shutter with a top speed of 1/500 sec to a top speed of 1/1000 sec done by changing the shutter altogether - did they included ball bearings? - or was this part of the conversion done by simply tightening the springs and changing the shutterspeed dial?

3. My guess further is that all the knobs were also exchanged, since 1932 Leicas had nickel knobs and not chromium ones like this postwar factory conversion.

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Old 12-18-2010   #91
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Originally Posted by Ron (Netherlands) View Post
Ok here's mine, 1932 Leica II -> Leica IIa synch.

I especially like this cam since its piano paint really matches the Millenium and further since its a bp Leica II that has the ability of using flash.

But further of course these types are so nice since they raise quite some historic questions e.g.:

1. Did the postwar conversion of bp Leicas indeed included a change of the body shell and bottom-plate? It seems that the plate and shell differ from the original Leica II.

2. Was the conversion of a shutter with a top speed of 1/500 sec to a top speed of 1/1000 sec done by changing the shutter altogether - did they included ball bearings? - or was this part of the conversion done by simply tightening the springs and changing the shutterspeed dial?

3. My guess further is that all the knobs were also exchanged, since 1932 Leicas had nickel knobs and not chromium ones like this postwar factory conversion.
The conversion looks like IIf and the shell shows the blanking plate of a IIf on the front where the slow speed dial would be in the III series. The original II didn't have the blanking plate so it looks as if was a replacement at time of conversion.
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Old 12-18-2010   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greyelm View Post
The conversion looks like IIf and the shell shows the blanking plate of a IIf on the front where the slow speed dial would be in the III series. The original II didn't have the blanking plate so it looks as if was a replacement at time of converion.
As said before in this thread, there are no f conversions, but indeed it is a post WWII conversion probably done in the early 1950's and indeed it has a blanking plate (as the IIf did have) which was put on as part of a new shell, but again it is no f but a IIa.
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Old 12-18-2010   #93
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The vf window frame looks the type that was on the later made Leica II, III, IIIa and IIIb.
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Old 12-18-2010   #94
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This is a 'correct' postwar conversion including new shell with late vulcanite, extra lug and presumably bottom plate. No, no ball bearings but you will find more baffles than in an original II. To be correct it is not a IIf. It is a IIa sync (I think. Erik will correct me if I an wrong). Yes it was common practice to replace all nickel fittings but this is not always the case. Nice camera, nice lens. These things are going up in value at quite a rate.

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Old 12-18-2010   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xayraa33 View Post
The vf window frame looks the type that was on the later made Leica II, III, IIIa and IIIb.
Quite right! Part of the synchronisation conversion was changement of the topplate, as I understand Leica destoyed the original topplates. However the orginal serial number (as you might ascertain, this number comes from a genuine 1932 Leica II) was taken over to the new topplate.
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Old 12-18-2010   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dralowid View Post
This is a 'correct' postwar conversion including new shell with late vulcanite, extra lug and presumably bottom plate. No, no ball bearings but you will find more baffles than in an original II. To be correct it is not a IIf. It is a IIa sync (I think. Erik will correct me if I an wrong). Yes it was common practice to replace all nickel fittings but this is not always the case. Nice camera, nice lens. These things are going up in value at quite a rate.

Michael
Thanks Michael; so quite interesting: they changed the topplate, the shell, the bottomplate, all the fittings and knobs, and some innerparts: in fact these conversions made the camera almost completely new and different in comparison with its original.

That makes clear why especially a conversion of a black paint Leica was so expensive!
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Old 12-18-2010   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron (Netherlands)
Was the conversion of a shutter with a top speed of 1/500 sec to a top speed of 1/1000 sec done by changing the shutter altogether - did they included ball bearings? - or was this part of the conversion done by simply tightening the springs
The 1/1000 settings on these camera's is useless. It gives the same time as the 1/500 setting, wich is in itself unreliable. Only the speeds 1/60, 1/100 and 1/200 are reliable and, of course, 1/20 when using flash, the main reason of the existence of these cameras.
Personally I love these cameras when they are not fitted with a synch. They exist, but are very rare. Why would someone convert a camera to specifics it already has?

Erik.


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Old 12-18-2010   #98
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I thought that the later, ie post iiic body shells were cast alloy, longer and slightly thicker ? So were these early pre-war cameras fitted with new shells,top & bottom plates and how did Leitz go about fitting the rangefinder to the top plate ? Did they use new old stock ?
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Old 12-19-2010   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik van Straten View Post
Why would someone convert a camera to specifics it already has?
The answer is, they didn't. Yours was originally a standard Leica from 1936. So your conversion is a very normal conversion, being a Leica standard to Leica II conversion, the conversion however seems to have been done after WWII, that explains your topplate. But therefore it is still an interesting and maybe unique conversion; anyhow its a beauty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flat Twin View Post
I have been meaning to post some pictures of my Leica IIIa sync conversion and Ron's post spurred me to action! Originally a very early Leica I, the camera is currently with Malcolm Taylor being serviced.
thanks for sharing Simon; - 2361 goes back to 1926! Interesting is also that the result of the conversion is very comparable to the one done to my camera, although they stem from completely different cameras.
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Old 12-19-2010   #100
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So your conversion is a very normal conversion, being a Leica standard to Leica II conversion, the conversion however seems to have been done after WWII.
Yes, after the war and after the introduction of the M3 (1954) hence the modern logo.

Strangely, earlier postwar conversions are almost unknown, but they do exist. They have a IIIc-like logo, very beautiful. Of course we only talk about black cameras, they are so much more beautiful than chrome ones.

Erik.
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Old 12-20-2010   #101
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Unfortunately such a conversion destroys the value of the original camera.

A 4 digit original Leica I is nowadays a very valuable camera, even with a fixed Elmar. Just look at the Westlicht auctions. I sold the cameras that I had under s/n 10,000 a few years ago and made a surprising amount of money.

Having said that a black conversion such as those above with a 'nice' number is on its way up the value ladder apace. Again see the Westlicht auctions.

From memory, in Michael's camera museum in Melbourne there is a very nice conversion of a three digit camera to a Leica III of some sort. Whatever it is it represents something of Holy Grail.

I don't chase serial numbers but sometimes I do come across a conversion that is wortha frction of the original.

Michael
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Old 12-20-2010   #102
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Of course we only talk about black cameras, they are so much more beautiful than chrome ones.
Erik.
Thats what we share Erik.

And thank you Head Bartender who made this thread sticky!
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Old 12-20-2010   #103
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Beautiful Ron...CONGRATS
post some pixs taken by her...

I'm puzzled about my 1938 III
converted in the 50's to 1000, sync, and painted Black
so what is 'she' Considered now ...a IIa sync, a IIIF..?????
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Old 12-20-2010   #104
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Originally Posted by helenhill View Post
Beautiful Ron...CONGRATS
post some pixs taken by her...

I'm puzzled about my 1938 III
converted in the 50's to 1000, sync, and painted Black
so what is 'she' Considered now ...a IIa sync, a IIIF..?????

Just 'Helen's camera' should be sufficient!
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Old 12-20-2010   #105
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Just 'Helen's camera' should be sufficient!
Quite Right Keith...I'm pretty easy & slack about those things
Who Cares really....
its just the leicophiles I run into on the rare occasion ask me all sorts of Questions...lol
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Old 12-21-2010   #106
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Hmmm, where did all the pics go?

Brian, was it you?

On topic: I really have GAS for a IIIa sync
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Old 12-21-2010   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by helenhill View Post
Beautiful Ron...CONGRATS
post some pixs taken by her...

I'm puzzled about my 1938 III
converted in the 50's to 1000, sync, and painted Black
so what is 'she' Considered now ...a IIa sync, a IIIF..?????

Most dealers would probably list it as " Leica III, converted to IIIf."

Still kind of a bitsa; while the 1/1000 shutter speed and flash sync give it the qualities of a IIIf, it still has the smaller, built-up body shell of the III; does it still have the "divorced" RF - VF windows ? If so, then I would say "more III than f "...
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Old 12-21-2010   #108
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Most dealers would probably list it as " Leica III, converted to IIIf."

Still kind of a bitsa; while the 1/1000 shutter speed and flash sync give it the qualities of a IIIf, it still has the smaller, built-up body shell of the III; does it still have the "divorced" RF - VF windows ? If so, then I would say "more III than f "...
Part of the conversion was the complete exchange of top- and baseplate and shell: so my guess is these cameras have the same dimensions as a IIIf. Thats why these conversions were so expensive at the time.

And yes, it still has the old separate viewfinder and rangefinder windows, and they have not the (one part)topplate of the IIIc/IIIf. Therefore these Leica's are quite unique since they were never sold as a genuine camera, however because of the conversion a new Leica type emerged.

I wonder whether Leitz kept records of converted Leicas.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron (Netherlands) View Post
As said before in this thread, there are no f conversions, .....
I was a bit too quick with this answer and have to correct this with regard to the f conversion: of course a Leica IIIc could be converted in a IIIf by adding the flash sync, that was probably the most regular conversion.

Concerning the Leica II conversion: show goes on at the Leica forum site:

...and this very rare and very beautiful factory conversion at the LUF:

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-...ic-iiic-bk-jpg
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Old 01-07-2011   #109
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Specially for Eric, postwar conversion to III no sync. (Courtesy Leicashop)Michael
Indeed converted from a Leica I, 1931 : https://www.leicashop.com/vintage/ii...rome-p-33.html
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Old 01-07-2011   #110
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Thank you Michael for drawing my attention to this very interesting camera.

Erik.
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Old 01-08-2011   #111
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IIIC/IIIFBDST with CV25/4
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Sync or no Sync postwar conversions
Old 01-10-2011   #112
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Sync or no Sync postwar conversions

I was talking with someone who knows a lot about older Leicas ...

They are of the opinion that the non sync versions such as the one recently illustrated from Leicashop pre-date the sync versions and were available from late pre-war years, ie from around the beginning of IIIc production.

I'm talking about the black cameras with higher tops, slightly protruding accessory shoes and the large flat area around the shutter dial. (They are NOT black IIIcs)


This is news to me and I am not sure I agree since I had assumed that both were offered at the same time ...and have seen a price list with both on at the same time.

Any comments?

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Old 01-10-2011   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dralowid View Post
I'm talking about the black cameras with higher tops, slightly protruding accessory shoes and the large flat area around the shutter dial. (They are NOT black IIIcs)
I think synched and non-synched conversions could be ordered at the same time, the non-synched conversions being much rarer because a synch was a much desired feature in the fifties. In fact in the post-war era the addition of a synch was the prime reason because of wich a conversion was undertaken.

These conversions were also made with a IIIc logo, the "standard" logo before the introduction of the M3. These conversions are very uncommon, but they do exist.

Erik.

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Old 01-11-2011   #114
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Hi Erik,

I must say I agree with you but it was Peter at Leicashop who made the observation and he is experienced in the field.

Regarding the logo, can you illustrate what you mean about the IIIc logo?

All the best

Michael
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Old 01-12-2011   #115
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It has however no protruding asseccory-shoe.

Did you see the screws that hold the top plate above the strap lugs? It still has it's old top plate!

Erik.

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Old 01-13-2011   #116
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Hi Erik,

Indeed a very interesting camera which would, maybe, suggest a conversion done before the advent of factory synchronisation and after the end of 'Woods Metal' type engravings, changing far fewer parts than the later ones.

I'll post a picture later of an earlier conversion to IIIa which will illustrate more differences.

Thank you very much for taking the time to post this

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Old 01-16-2011   #117
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I to IIIa. A well used (!) prewar example of a conversion, now brought back to life. DIY release collar and non original covering.

Michael
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Old 01-16-2011   #118
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I to IIIa. A well used (!) prewar example of a conversion, now brought back to life. DIY release collar and non original covering.

Michael
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Old 01-16-2011   #119
MikeL
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Looking at some of these conversions, it would appear the lug the base plate hooks onto has been upgraded to the larger size. Mine still has the smaller original lug (and vulcanite). I guess they replaced the whole shell and baseplate on some conversions?
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Old 01-21-2011   #120
Ron (Netherlands)
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Just saw a very nice IIa synch converted from a 1930 standard at the LUF:

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-...leica-iif.html
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Leica: IIa synch conversion, IIIb, M6 TTL Millenium, 2x Rolleicord Vb, 2x Rolleiflex 3.5F white face, Rolleiflex 2.8A, 5x ICA Tropica

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