The effect of the Leica badge on price
Old 03-24-2019   #1
Huss
Registered User
 
Huss is offline
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Venice, CA
Posts: 8,017
The effect of the Leica badge on price

First off, I really like Leicas. I have a few.

But frankly, it's crazy how the red badge can add a serious price 'adjustment'.
To whit.. the Leica AF-C1. In essence it was a rebadged Minolta with slightly different styling. That goes for about $20.

Holy guacamole, the Leica version - $333 with 5 days left in the auction!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Vintag...YAAOSwHVdcjkNk

Are there other cameras rebadged as Leicas that show this behaviour on the used market? I don't think those Leica/Panasonic digicams do.
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-26-2019   #2
jvo
Registered User
 
jvo is offline
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 65
Cool

most things, leica, rollei and contax among others - and it comes with a case!!!
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-26-2019   #3
B-9
Devin Bro
 
B-9's Avatar
 
B-9 is offline
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,320
Minolta Riva Mini is the same as the Leica Mini

Recently prices have shot up to around 100$ still much less than the Leica branded variant.
__________________
Made in Michigan

RangefinderGuy @ Instagram
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-26-2019   #4
nzeeman
Registered User
 
nzeeman's Avatar
 
nzeeman is offline
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: belgrade
Age: 39
Posts: 1,227
and not only on rebadged... just find any leica lens and find some from other brand that is sharper and with less distortion.. still leica will be 5x the price. . if you ask buyer why-leica glow or some other imaginary thing is answer... just say i love brand and its ok-no need to lie to yourself.
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-26-2019   #5
Huss
Registered User
 
Huss is offline
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Venice, CA
Posts: 8,017
Quote:
Originally Posted by jvo View Post
most things, leica, rollei and contax among others - and it comes with a case!!!
I’m not talking about ‘real’ items like Leica M lenses, but the rebadged stuff.
I know there was a Rollei badged Bessa (R2?) that came with a ‘made in Germany’ 40mm 2.8 lens. This lens, that I own, looks exactly the same design and construction as CV lenses of the same era like the 50 2.5
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-26-2019   #6
wjlapier
Registered User
 
wjlapier's Avatar
 
wjlapier is offline
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,722
Leica C-Lux 3 and Lumix FX37 are basically the same. Internet discussions suggest a Leica tweak to the image output for the Leica version. I've never seen a comparison between the two. I bring up the C-Lux 3 because I have one. I think it's pretty much the same for all Leica Lumix cameras.
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-26-2019   #7
Emile de Leon
Registered User
 
Emile de Leon is offline
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,034
Leica has better elves..
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-26-2019   #8
css9450
Registered User
 
css9450's Avatar
 
css9450 is offline
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,998
They might be the same camera or lens deep down inside, but the one with the Leica logo will take eighteen times longer if it ever has to be sent back for warranty work or servicing.
__________________
Nikon S2, S3, F, F2, F3, FM2, FA, N90S, D80, D7000, D750, Sony a6000, Canon IIf, Leica CL, Tower type 3, Zorki 4, Vito B, Perkeo II, Rollei 35....
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-26-2019   #9
Pioneer
Registered User
 
Pioneer's Avatar
 
Pioneer is offline
Join Date: Dec 2011
Age: 65
Posts: 3,156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emile de Leon View Post
Leica has better elves..
Certainly those elves are better at marketing.
__________________
You gotta love a fast lens;

It is almost as good as a fast horse!
Dan
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-26-2019   #10
Archlich
Registered User
 
Archlich is offline
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,318
Fits well what these now overpriced compact cameras are intended for: fashion accessories. It all make sense once it's fashion right?
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-26-2019   #11
Emile de Leon
Registered User
 
Emile de Leon is offline
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,034
Quote:
Certainly those elves are better at marketing.
Wealthy elves...so wealthy...they buy Rolexes..and Bentleys..
You can catch them driving around..from time to time...lol..
They like the 75mm Noct..for happy snaps..
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-26-2019   #12
Godfrey
somewhat colored
 
Godfrey's Avatar
 
Godfrey is offline
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Silly Valley, California, USA
Posts: 9,218
Ah, another delightful thread full of rangefinder camera enthusiasts enjoying*and lauding the only camera manufacturer still producing rangefinder cameras, both digital AND film..

What a load of bollocks this is.

G
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-26-2019   #13
nzeeman
Registered User
 
nzeeman's Avatar
 
nzeeman is offline
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: belgrade
Age: 39
Posts: 1,227
Quote:
Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
Ah, another delightful thread full of rangefinder camera enthusiasts enjoying*and lauding the only camera manufacturer still producing rangefinder cameras, both digital AND film..

What a load of bollocks this is.

G
well if they put fair price they would be good... but they just make overpriced lenses and bodies now - half of them inferior to other manufacturers... so who cares about them still producing it when they just try to milk the money from fans...we can always buy old used stuff...
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-26-2019   #14
JoeLopez
Registered User
 
JoeLopez's Avatar
 
JoeLopez is offline
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Detroit, Michigan
Posts: 364
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huss View Post
First off, I really like Leicas. I have a few.

But frankly, it's crazy how the red badge can add a serious price 'adjustment'.
To whit.. the Leica AF-C1. In essence it was a rebadged Minolta with slightly different styling. That goes for about $20.

Holy guacamole, the Leica version - $333 with 5 days left in the auction!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Vintag...YAAOSwHVdcjkNk

Are there other cameras rebadged as Leicas that show this behaviour on the used market? I don't think those Leica/Panasonic digicams do.
Vanity is expensive
__________________
Minolta A5 - acquired September 2018

Other gear: Minolta X-570, Nikon F3/T, N90s & D750, Fuji X100T
Nikkor 50mm f1.8, 28mm f2.8 E, Voigtlander 40mm f/2.0 Ultron SL, Minolta 45mm f2 & 50mm f1.7

My Flickr | My ebay | Instagram
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-26-2019   #15
Michael Markey
Registered User
 
Michael Markey's Avatar
 
Michael Markey is offline
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Blackpool ,England
Age: 69
Posts: 4,201
I joined this forum in `08 and threads like these have been a constant feature.
I wonder what purpose they serve .
It`s rather like groundhog day reading some of the replies regardless of which model camera is being discussed.
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-26-2019   #16
Archlich
Registered User
 
Archlich is offline
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,318
Quote:
Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
Ah, another delightful thread full of rangefinder camera enthusiasts enjoying*and lauding the only camera manufacturer still producing rangefinder cameras, both digital AND film..

What a load of bollocks this is.

G
No one's arguing here that Leica isn't making fantastic products on their own.

This thread is about used, 1990's Minolta cheapo point & shoot cameras with a Leica logo stuck on fetching prices several times higher than the vanilla ones, in the year of 2019. It's more of a trend than what Leica is doing now.

Please do not resort to personal attack if there's no denial in that...fact.
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-26-2019   #17
Michael Markey
Registered User
 
Michael Markey's Avatar
 
Michael Markey is offline
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Blackpool ,England
Age: 69
Posts: 4,201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archlich View Post
Leica's unique products are good.

They don't make the rebadged ones, which is this thread is about. How does pointing that out making one a bollock?
A person can`t be a bollock just things and situations
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-26-2019   #18
Huss
Registered User
 
Huss is offline
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Venice, CA
Posts: 8,017
Quote:
Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
Ah, another delightful thread full of rangefinder camera enthusiasts enjoying*and lauding the only camera manufacturer still producing rangefinder cameras, both digital AND film..

What a load of bollocks this is.

G
Why you upset? No puppies were kicked in the making of this thread.

You could explain why my Leica AF-C1 is now worth 20 times the identical Minolta.

My explanation is that it is 20 times rarer. And I'm not kidding about that.
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-26-2019   #19
Archlich
Registered User
 
Archlich is offline
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,318
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huss View Post
Why you upset? No puppies were kicked in the making of this thread.

You could explain why my Leica AF-C1 is now worth 20 times the identical Minolta.

My explanation is that it is 20 times rarer. And I'm not kidding about that.
We all know the Leica brand has value. Big value, which has been extensively exploited, like all premium brands. In which there is nothing to be ashamed of.

What is interesting here is people would automatically assume that by acknowledging the prestige of the Leica brand, you're attacking it.

Weird!
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-26-2019   #20
css9450
Registered User
 
css9450's Avatar
 
css9450 is offline
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,998
I interpreted most of the posts as just light-hearted fun. Nothing to get upset about.
__________________
Nikon S2, S3, F, F2, F3, FM2, FA, N90S, D80, D7000, D750, Sony a6000, Canon IIf, Leica CL, Tower type 3, Zorki 4, Vito B, Perkeo II, Rollei 35....
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-26-2019   #21
Godfrey
somewhat colored
 
Godfrey's Avatar
 
Godfrey is offline
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Silly Valley, California, USA
Posts: 9,218
The answer to your question is: Because people are willing to pay that much for these cameras.

It's certainly not Leica's fault nor does Leica have any influence on what people are willing to pay a lot of money for. And, by the way, Leica gains no benefit from used camera sales at all. So why try to grind Leica's badge into the mud about it?

Just call such sales the result of foolish people paying more than things are worth. Who freekin' cares anyway? It's their money, they get to do with it as they please. If that means heaping it in a barbecue and igniting it to watch the pretty colors being outgassed from the Treasury department's fancy inks, so be it.

I see this kind of crap thread started here every month, at least. I cannot imagine what benefit it has for RFF or for the people who participate in it. It's all negative crap.

G
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-26-2019   #22
Archlich
Registered User
 
Archlich is offline
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,318
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Markey View Post
A person can`t be a bollock just things and situations
My bad but I've got my share of it
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-26-2019   #23
Ko.Fe.
Kostya Fedot
 
Ko.Fe.'s Avatar
 
Ko.Fe. is online now
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: MiltON.ONtario
Posts: 7,598
I have no idea how Leica does it, but even rebranding works for Leica.
OP doesn't deny it.
Now the only thing he needs to accept and let it go is the fact what many people are willing to pay more even if it is not Leica made, but rebranded product.
Leica does it so good. Packaging, broken English manuals. It is so charming.
Or look at thier digital P&S. Old sensors, absolutely nothing special in rendering, including T, X and CL.
But cameras are so cute.
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-26-2019   #24
nickthetasmaniac
Registered User
 
nickthetasmaniac is offline
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,244
Quote:
Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
It's all negative crap.

G
If you read through the thread there's really only one person being negative.

For the rest, just curiousity that the name is worth so much, when everything but the name is identical. No one is saying Leica sucks, no one is dragging their name through the mud.
__________________
Ricoh GRII | Pentax SV, SP-F, MX & LX | Leica M2 | Olympus Pen F + 35RD | Minolta Autocord | Hasselblad 500cm + SWC/m

Instagram @other_strange_creatures
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-26-2019   #25
Huss
Registered User
 
Huss is offline
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Venice, CA
Posts: 8,017
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ko.Fe. View Post
I have no idea how Leica does it, but even rebranding works for Leica.
OP doesn't deny it.
Now the only thing he needs to accept and let it go is the fact what many people are willing to pay more even if it is not Leica made, but rebranded product.
Leica does it so good. Packaging, broken English manuals. It is so charming.
Or look at thier digital P&S. Old sensors, absolutely nothing special in rendering, including T, X and CL.
But cameras are so cute.
Indeed it's a strange thing the way we are so affected.

Take any of the Hasseblad Xpan series cameras. They are 100% Fujis where the absolutely only difference is the name Hasselblad. I had both the Hasselblad and Fuji version at the same time. The Xpan sold for $1000 more than my TX-1, same condition!
But I get it, there is just something to seeing the name there. And I was thankful that the buyer saw it too!
I've kept my TX-2..
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-26-2019   #26
Huss
Registered User
 
Huss is offline
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Venice, CA
Posts: 8,017
Quote:
Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
The answer to your question is: Because people are willing to pay that much for these cameras.

It's certainly not Leica's fault nor does Leica have any influence on what people are willing to pay a lot of money for. And, by the way, Leica gains no benefit from used camera sales at all. So why try to grind Leica's badge into the mud about it?

Just call such sales the result of foolish people paying more than things are worth. Who freekin' cares anyway? It's their money, they get to do with it as they please. If that means heaping it in a barbecue and igniting it to watch the pretty colors being outgassed from the Treasury department's fancy inks, so be it.

I see this kind of crap thread started here every month, at least. I cannot imagine what benefit it has for RFF or for the people who participate in it. It's all negative crap.

G
Take a breath. Relax. Ohmmmmm.
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-26-2019   #27
Emile de Leon
Registered User
 
Emile de Leon is offline
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,034
Quote:
I cannot imagine what benefit it has for RFF or for the people who participate in it.
It's called...fun...!
Just us wankers...pontificating...
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-26-2019   #28
B-9
Devin Bro
 
B-9's Avatar
 
B-9 is offline
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,320
ohhhhhhmmmmmmm resistance is futile!
__________________
Made in Michigan

RangefinderGuy @ Instagram
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-26-2019   #29
zuiko85
Registered User
 
zuiko85 is offline
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,996
Leica is in the enviable position of being able to price their goods high enough to actually make a profit.
At least making enough money that they can indulge in still making a couple of M film cameras, one even meterless, a real purist camera. None of the other major players would have the extra profit to do that.
Ask a few other camera companies how well they are doing. Often bringing out new models every 9 months and having to dump the last model for less than their cost. It's a brutal business world out there. I doubt Olympus has made a nickel on their camera division in the last few quarters. Not sure how Canon or Nikon or Fuji are faring.
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-26-2019   #30
nickthetasmaniac
Registered User
 
nickthetasmaniac is offline
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,244
Quote:
Originally Posted by zuiko85 View Post
At least making enough money that they can indulge in still making a couple of M film cameras, one even meterless, a real purist camera. None of the other major players would have the extra profit to do that.
I wonder if the M-A is an indulgance, or a key part of their brand marketing? They might not be making any direct profit from it (I have no idea), but I suspect is represents an important part of maintaining the Leica mythology.
__________________
Ricoh GRII | Pentax SV, SP-F, MX & LX | Leica M2 | Olympus Pen F + 35RD | Minolta Autocord | Hasselblad 500cm + SWC/m

Instagram @other_strange_creatures
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-27-2019   #31
Michael Markey
Registered User
 
Michael Markey's Avatar
 
Michael Markey is offline
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Blackpool ,England
Age: 69
Posts: 4,201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
I see this kind of crap thread started here every month, at least. I cannot imagine what benefit it has for RFF or for the people who participate in it. It's all negative crap.

G
I agree …. no benefit what ever and it`s been done to death.
Whatever happened to posting shots.
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-27-2019   #32
CMur12
Registered User
 
CMur12 is offline
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Moses Lake, Washington, USA
Age: 68
Posts: 1,065
Could it be that the typical buyer of such used cameras isn't aware that certain Leica models are rebadged from other brands?


- Murray
__________________
Still shooting film: Medium Format with assorted TLRs; 35mm with manual-focus Minolta SLRs and a Canonet.
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-27-2019   #33
nickthetasmaniac
Registered User
 
nickthetasmaniac is offline
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,244
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Markey View Post
Whatever happened to posting shots.
They're same place they've always been... https://www.rangefinderforum.com/for...php?forumid=62
__________________
Ricoh GRII | Pentax SV, SP-F, MX & LX | Leica M2 | Olympus Pen F + 35RD | Minolta Autocord | Hasselblad 500cm + SWC/m

Instagram @other_strange_creatures
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-27-2019   #34
Michael Markey
Registered User
 
Michael Markey's Avatar
 
Michael Markey is offline
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Blackpool ,England
Age: 69
Posts: 4,201
Yep . I know Nick .
It`s just that sometimes I get tired of the " is Leica worth it , can`t cameras be simpler , film /digital threads ".
Its a photography forum , photographers are supposed to have a little imagination when instead it`s like bloody groundhog day around here sometimes.
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-27-2019   #35
zuiko85
Registered User
 
zuiko85 is offline
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,996
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Markey View Post
Yep . I know Mick .
It`s just that sometimes I get tired of the " is Leica worth it , can`t cameras be simpler , film /digital threads ".
Its a photography forum , photographers are supposed to have a little imagination when instead it`s like bloody groundhog day around here sometimes.
For what it's worth we were having the same silly arguments back in the days before the internet.
I was selling cameras at Altman's in Chicago back in the early 70's and this "discussion" came periodically among the sales staff. I was there when Leica brought out the M5, you should have heard the noise! You would have thought it was the end of world for the Leica purest camp. At the time I was with the 'Leica is overpriced jewelry' camp, being young and stupid. Having aged (grumpy old man stage of life) I'm more in agreement with Godfrey's 'Who the hell cares' attitude. Like he said, it's their money, they can spend it however they like.
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-27-2019   #36
nzeeman
Registered User
 
nzeeman's Avatar
 
nzeeman is offline
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: belgrade
Age: 39
Posts: 1,227
new people come and want ti discuss some things that we maybe already discussed... nothing wrong with it... and its always interesting to talk about power of brand. especially nowadays when its so easy to compare components used and to see that all brands share so much interior and still make different price... same as with iphone-selling inferior device for much more money...
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-27-2019   #37
Contarama
Registered User
 
Contarama is offline
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Tulsa
Posts: 1,254
Quote:
Originally Posted by CMur12 View Post
Could it be that the typical buyer of such used cameras isn't aware that certain Leica models are rebadged from other brands?


- Murray
That's me!! I knew about the clear but not the others
__________________
Art is the ability to make something...even if it is a big mess...
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-27-2019   #38
Huss
Registered User
 
Huss is offline
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Venice, CA
Posts: 8,017
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Markey View Post
Whatever happened to posting shots.
they are posted all the time in other threads...

Apparently the market has been watching this thread because now the cheapest working Leica AF-C1 is $333 with others in the $500 range!

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...af-c1&_sacat=0

The identical Minolta is in the $10-$20 range
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-27-2019   #39
Steve Bellayr
Registered User
 
Steve Bellayr's Avatar
 
Steve Bellayr is offline
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Virginia
Posts: 1,943
Leica tends to have better quality control and longer warranties. If purchasing a new item that may be an important consideration. On used item, especially one of lower level, it is especially important as you loose the warranty. Recently, correct me if I am wrong, but I have seen a sharp increase in price of M6s, especially those in very excellent condition.
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-27-2019   #40
Huss
Registered User
 
Huss is offline
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Venice, CA
Posts: 8,017
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bellayr View Post
Leica tends to have better quality control and longer warranties. If purchasing a new item that may be an important consideration. On used item, especially one of lower level, it is especially important as you loose the warranty. Recently, correct me if I am wrong, but I have seen a sharp increase in price of M6s, especially those in very excellent condition.
Yep, the M6 and M7 now have had a sharp increase in price. (So has the Zeiss Ikon ZM). But this thread is about re-badged cameras, not 'real' Leicas.
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 07:33.


vBulletin skin developed by: eXtremepixels
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

All content on this site is Copyright Protected and owned by its respective owner. You may link to content on this site but you may not reproduce any of it in whole or part without written consent from its owner.