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Old 1 Week Ago   #81
Rayt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickthetasmaniac View Post
I guess the issue for me is that the industry spent decades developing new directions and new ideas for film photography (metering, AF, electronic shutters etc. etc.), and yet the film cameras I actually own and use, when I could afford pretty much any consumer-level film camera ever made, are all manual and mechanical (with the honorable exception of the LX).

I'll put it this way... A 35mm version of the Nikon D850 or Z7 would hold zero interest for me. However, an update to my M2 that could achieve a mechanical 1/8000" with a cloth focal plane shutter - that's the stuff dreams are made of
Sure but will people pay for it? I am the type who thinks $$$ is worth it for a mechanical Swiss watch while others will say a $100 Swatch does the same thing (which is true). While I appreciate the artistry of springs over solenoids the market does not agree.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #82
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A film camera which reassembles the xpro 2 but with a real rf but off course with some sort of hybrid finder. Dual shutters - in body and in lens. No film backs because of the size but some sort of coding you could change mid roll (a la aps).
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Old 1 Week Ago   #83
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Originally Posted by CMur12 View Post
Huss, I think part of the lack of enthusiasm here may be that film shooters are largely photographic conservatives.


I know that I tend to look to older cameras that have the basic controls without unnecessary complications, as I know how to use those controls without the intervention of a computer. As such, I have to strain to get into the mindset of this thread.


However, I love TLRs and your idea of an EVF would probably work best in this format. The EVF would also be more useful for assessing tricky lighting than the old Polaroid backs.


Questions:

It seems to me that if you have an EVF, you must have the workings of a digital camera in addition to the film function. Is this what you have in mind (both digital and film capture in the same camera)?



Would it be possible to have a digital sensor and EVF without their own aperture and shutter?


- Murray
In the TLR model, the viewing lens that leads to the digi sensor and thus EVF could have an electronic shutter, while the taking lens is the traditional leaf shutter and aperture directed towards the film.
It seems that a TLR would be the easiest hybrid to make as it already is basically two cameras in one. The viewing lens could have a leaf shutter too.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #84
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Originally Posted by nickthetasmaniac View Post
.. However, an update to my M2 that could achieve a mechanical 1/8000" with a cloth focal plane shutter - that's the stuff dreams are made of
A 1/8000 sec shutter in a film M would be awesome. Konica already had 1/4000 in their sorely missed RF. I pretty much hate carrying around ND filters so this would be a huge improvement on so many levels.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #85
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My ideal would be a Minox B (need space for the electronics instead of the old meter) with auto focus, digital finder, plus high quality (AND CURRENTLY AVAILABLE) film. If all this could be got inside an earlier model body; even better
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Old 1 Week Ago   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayt View Post
Sure but will people pay for it? I am the type who thinks $$$ is worth it for a mechanical Swiss watch while others will say a $100 Swatch does the same thing (which is true). While I appreciate the artistry of springs over solenoids the market does not agree.
Actually yes, I think people probably would pay for it. What I'm talking about is basically an M-A with a magical shutter, and plenty of people are willing to pay for the M-A.

On the other hand, I think in 2019 there's zero chance people would pay for a new 'high end' electronic 35mm body (aka, a Nikon 'F8'), especially one with an EVF. I just don't think that's what today's film shooters are interested in...

Your Swiss watch example is a good one. Who buys a $100 digital watch nowadays? Your phone tells the time and does a million other things... But people continue to spend silly money on mechanical Swiss watches.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #87
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I hate EVF
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Old 1 Week Ago   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KM-25 View Post
I'll take a high end Nikon SLR that uses all current F mount lenses.
+1.
That means an updated F6.
You just have to implement the capability for the new "E" type lenses. These lenses can currently only be used at open aperture with the F6 (same is valid for pre D3 Nikon DSLRs).

So for this F7 just take the F6 (which is almost perfect) and
- implement this "E" function
- put the AF system of the coming D6 in it (which will be introduced in the beginning of 2020).
Then you have the perfect film camera for the future. It is very easy, and Nikon would have only tiny, negligible R&D costs.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by james.liam View Post
Ricoh would be wise to consider releasing a new film GR. It would be a phenomenal success as the basic body and AF already exist for digital.

I agree. Let's all drop them a line and let them know:


https://www.ricoh-usa.com/en/support...act-us?f=sales
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Old 1 Week Ago   #90
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The majority of film cameras mentioned all are super high grade that can/will last forever.
Digital has allowed manufacturers to release supposed "new" models every few years..
The fallacy of unbelievable high ISO, yet for quality one ought use 100/200 ISO...
Fitting EVF is plain silly. Mirror reflex are perfect, RFDR as Leica-M more than satisfy. ,
A new film camera even if a re-issue of Nikon F2, Olympus OM, Hasselblad 500,
Mamiya, Pentax Spotmatic-K-1000, Leica M3 would be very expensive and require trained folk to assemble..
A fun topic like "if" i win the lottery..
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Old 1 Week Ago   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leicapixie View Post
The majority of film cameras mentioned all are super high grade that can/will last forever.
Nikon F2, FM2/3a, Leica M3, M6, M7, MP, R 6.5; Pentax; Olympus OM1, etc....yes

The rest....No

Quote:
The fallacy of unbelievable high ISO, yet for quality one ought use 100/200 ISO...
You can push ISO 3200 film (in the case of Kodak, actually an ISO 800 film) only so far. A Sony A7SII for example will give you pristine ISO 12,500 files, and when its successor arrives, probably 50,000. It does matter. Limited choices for fast color (Cinestill 800T is the fastest, I believe). That beckons a fixed compact with ƒ/1,2 or faster lens.

Quote:
Fitting EVF is plain silly. Mirror reflex are perfect, RFDR as Leica-M more than satisfy.
Yes, but the newly interested buyers will go for compact AF, given the prices that ancient Contax, Yashica and Olympus models are commanding.

Quote:
A new film camera even if a re-issue of Nikon F2, Olympus OM, Hasselblad 500 Mamiya, Pentax Spotmatic-K-1000, Leica M3 would be very expensive and require trained folk to assemble..
The Fujifilm/Bessa MF cameras, made in limited numbers now go for crazy money used. I'm sure Cosina can restart that line without great difficulties, as well as the SLR line they used for the recently-discontinued Nikon FM10. Not to mention Ricoh, who already have a superb compact
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Old 1 Week Ago   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Cloetta View Post
I once owned a Minox subminiature camera. It’s one camera that an iphone is definitely better than.
Haha true, but it was a joke. The worst of both worlds!
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Old 1 Week Ago   #93
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Quote:
Who buys a $100 digital watch nowadays? Your phone tells the time and does a million other things... But people continue to spend silly money on mechanical Swiss watches.
I still like a nice G-Shock myself... people buy Apple Watches in droves. Garmin, Samsung, etc.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leicapixie View Post
The fallacy of unbelievable high ISO, yet for quality one ought use 100/200 ISO.
Care to expand on this?
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Old 1 Week Ago   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gavinlg View Post
A re-release of the Nikon F3 with a modern viewfinder metering readout would likely be one of the best cameras ever.
+1 to that. If it had meter display that is much better than the "+/-" of the F3, I'm sure I'd buy it. An analog meter needle is my preference. Exposure is an analog phenomenon, so for me, an analog readout is the best man-machine interface. And I do like the F3 high-eyepoint finder.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #96
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EOS-1vi, a modestly upgraded EOS-1v.

The EOS-1v already supported 1/8000 sec shutter speed and HSS.

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Old 1 Week Ago   #97
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Originally Posted by rolfe View Post
EOS-1vi, a modestly upgraded EOS-1v.

The EOS-1v already supported 1/8000 sec shutter speed and HSS.

Rolfe
The Leica R9 also has those features and honestly I cannot think of a better manual focus 35mm film camera. I prefer it to my F6 and F3P/Limited. It also does everything the F6 does apart from AF w/o the need to have menus.
I'd improve it by adding an ISO dial instead of having to push buttons.

It is a chunky monkey but it fits perfectly in hand.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #98
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A lower-cost Leica MP with 35/50 frame lines on one viewfinder, no switching of frames could cost less. If they changed the curtains to metal, that could be a useful upgrade.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #99
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Hmmm, what should a new "high end" film camera look like?



Well, for one it would have gold plating on the top and bottom covers. That would let everyone know you only use the highest value camera.



Body coverings would come in any color you like, even patterns (think leopard print).


Plenty of little add-on accessories to fiddle with as an excuse when you miss the shot.



An exclusive line of straps and half-cases made from exotic materials (non-animal based). Like Nile reeds wove into a basket style by Egyptian river dwellers.



And technically speaking, it would be designed so you'd never have to turn the camera from landscape to portrait orientation. Just a press of a button would rearrange the prism system that also feeds the EVF that Huff requested.


One can dream, can't they?


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Old 1 Week Ago   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huss View Post
Already covered that. I mean how hard can this be?
Like I said, it's certainly possible but it just seems totally silly (again, not trying to be negative, but that's the best way I can describe it). You'd have a camera that's way bulkier than a regular SLR since you'd use a whole SLR mechanism and add a full frame sensor and all the electronics that go with it and for what? So you can accurately preview DoF? You can already preview it on classic SLRs. Yes, it's a lot dimmer but it's still good enough most of the time.

But how about this. Why not just make a repro device instead that exposes a film frame with your favourite digital images? That way you have all the bells and whistles of a digital camera and don't have to waste film frames on shots you're not sure about.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #101
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Make mine with a pellicle mirror. I bought a Canon EOS-RT from a fellow RFF member a few years back and have grown to really like this camera. Like a mirrorless digital, there's no mirror blackout, so you always see what you’re photographing. Great street photography camera with the 40mm pancake lens mounted on it.

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Old 1 Week Ago   #102
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A Nikon SP with a built-in matrix meter and aperture priority ability.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #103
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An augmented reality hybrid optical viewfinder film camera, in the form factor of an M camera, with:
  • autofocus lenses
  • eye detection
  • optical viewfinder that overlays the focus area electronically
  • zebra for peaking
  • nothing else in the viewfinder, just an OV with frame lines and overlays for focus and peaking. Don't distract me with info that I don't need (like f/stop, exposure time, battery life, etc), keep it clean and uncluttered!

Optional: instead of a shutter click, I want to hear soft applause with a sexy female voice in a French accent whispering "What a master shot!"
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Old 1 Week Ago   #104
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Close to an M6 Millennium or Nikon FM3a.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil_F_NM View Post
A Nikon SP with a built-in matrix meter and aperture priority ability.
Phil Forrest
SPn? SPa?

This may be heresy but should they keep the S mount? Or adopt the M or LTM mount for the huge lens choice?
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Old 1 Week Ago   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huss View Post
SPn? SPa?

This may be heresy but should they keep the S mount? Or adopt the M or LTM mount for the huge lens choice?
It’s a Nikon; haven’t run down the numbers, but an F mount would probably give even huger number of lens choices than M mount.
I’d love a new SP bodied modern-ish camera more than most anything mentioned so far, but that’s more of a personal desire than a high end film camera. Though the cost of such a thing would be high end.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsrockit View Post
I still like a nice G-Shock myself... people buy Apple Watches in droves. Garmin, Samsung, etc.
First, an Apple Watch ain't $100 (or even close). Second, I think a smart watch is about as relevant to a G-shock (in the marketplace) as an smart phone is to a Nokia 3210. Yes, they're called a 'phone' and a 'watch', but that's not why people buy them...

I genuinely wonder how many G-shocks sell nowadays?
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Old 1 Week Ago   #108
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Originally Posted by giganova View Post
Optional: instead of a shutter click, I want to hear soft applause with a sexy female voice in a French accent whispering "What a master shot!"
That could easily be added to any mirrorless camera with an electronic shutter mode! That would be purely a software thing so just add it into the next firmware update and we're good to go. I would personally prefer the voice of Gilbert Gottfried praising me, but that's just me.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #109
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Originally Posted by Huss View Post
I was thinking about this when I should have been working. If someone was going to step up to the plate and release an all new high end film (35mm) camera, what should it offer?
I say they need to dump the optical viewfinders (whether rangefinder or slr) and release one with an EVF. It actually makes far more sense to have an EVF on a film camera than a digital camera. Because with a digicam you have a zillion shots on that memory card, so can afford to mess up some exposures (or bracket).
With a film camera, you have 36 exposures. So you really have to make them count and what would really help would be able to view the actual exposure real time with an EVF.
Fuji already has jpeg film presets. That idea can be expanded (but doesn't really as exposure is more important than 'look' if you catch my drift).

So what say you? Should the upcoming Nikon F7 have an EVF? Because let's be honest, my F6 is really long in tooth now and what other changes can they make that actually are meaningful?
And Leica with the Q2... slap that design onto a QM/QF? Keep that hardware but toss that sensor for a roll that 36 individual sensors..
Sort of impossible. I like my Fujica ST901 and its selection of lenses and accessories. I also like my Contax 167mt with its three zooms and the 50mm f/1.4.

How do I sell that idea to anyone else? Why should I even want to? I know you want this to be light hearted, but I think you didn't present that idea well. But good luck.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #110
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It's been said already, but a new high end camera looks like a Leica M3, but digital... a Leica M10... and then an M11... and then another MP... and then an M12... ad infinitum....


Or it looks like an iPhone X... but not an iPhone 11 <shudder>... so perhaps like an iPhone 12....



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Old 1 Week Ago   #111
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Originally Posted by skucera View Post
It's been said already, but a new high end camera looks like a Leica M3, but digital... a Leica M10... and then an M11... and then another MP... and then an M12... ad infinitum....


Or it looks like an iPhone X... but not an iPhone 11 <shudder>... so perhaps like an iPhone 12....



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Old 6 Days Ago   #112
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In episode 142 of the Sunny 16 podcast, Bellamy Hunt explains that he can't make a high end P&S (e.g., Contax T3, Ricoh GR, etc.) because the manufacturing infrastructure and know-how has been lost. I'm not sure how that squares with the fact that camera companies still make things like the Nikon F6 and all sorts of digital P&S cameras, but let's assume there's stuff he knows that we don't.

Anyway, I don't think there should or can be new high end film cameras. They're too sophisticated to be repairable in the long term. No more autofocus, motor drive, and matrix-metering. Don't even think about EVFs, WIFI, and app control.

I think the most sophisticated that a new film camera should be is something like a Bessa R2a or Zeiss Ikon, or the GF670. Center-weighted aperture-priority AE (or even just manual metering with no AE) and manual film advance. If we're talking about P&S cameras, I think scale focus and manual exposure with a light meter is fine, like the Rollei 35. At the most, add a rangefinder next to the viewfinder like a screwmount Leica (mechanical or electronic, like Nikon's green dot focus confirmation). It will become easier to manufacture spare parts for mechanical cameras, so we should design cameras to take advantage of that. My guess is we'll be heading back toward "adjust and fit" manufacturing and repair, and away from "correct or replace."
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Old 6 Days Ago   #113
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...
If we're talking about P&S cameras, I think scale focus and manual exposure with a light meter is fine, like the Rollei 35. At the most, add a rangefinder next to the viewfinder like a screwmount Leica (mechanical or electronic, like Nikon's green dot focus confirmation). It will become easier to manufacture spare parts for mechanical cameras, so we should design cameras to take advantage of that. My guess is we'll be heading back toward "adjust and fit" manufacturing and repair, and away from "correct or replace."
Lomo still makes those:

https://shop.lomography.com/en/camer...mily/lomo-lc-a

https://shop.lomography.com/en/camer...ersary-edition

https://shop.lomography.com/en/camer.../lomo-lc-a-120
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Old 6 Days Ago   #114
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Those are zone focus and only have AE. No manual exposure or “continuous” focusing! What’s the repairability of them?
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Old 6 Days Ago   #115
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Those are zone focus and only have AE. No manual exposure or “continuous” focusing! What’s the repairability of them?
Zone focus is scale focus. I have the nicer Cosina CX2 version and it has zone focus symbols on the top with measured distance/scale focus underneath.
You manually set the ISO so that gives you a bit of exposure control.
They are current production kameras w warrantys so repairabilty and parts availabilty is not an issue.
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Old 5 Days Ago   #116
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Manual exposure control is MANUAL, independent selection of shutter speed and aperture, preferably with dedicated controls. Fooling around with an ISO control is not manual control.
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Old 5 Days Ago   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huss View Post
SPn? SPa?

This may be heresy but should they keep the S mount? Or adopt the M or LTM mount for the huge lens choice?
I wonder why Nikon doesn't keep the outside of the SP or S3 pretty much the same and make newer innards. Better metering, titanium shutter, dang they missed the mark by not following on with the reissue.

B2 (;->
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Old 5 Days Ago   #118
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Originally Posted by zuiko85 View Post
Manual exposure control is MANUAL, independent selection of shutter speed and aperture, preferably with dedicated controls. Fooling around with an ISO control is not manual control.
Sure it is. You do that manually and it affects exppsure. Better that than nothing.
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Old 5 Days Ago   #119
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Originally Posted by BillBingham2 View Post
I wonder why Nikon doesn't keep the outside of the SP or S3 pretty much the same and make newer innards. Better metering, titanium shutter, dang they missed the mark by not following on with the reissue.

B2 (;->
If you read the story I posted that showed the insane and incredibly dedicated effort Nikon went through to recreate the S3 2000 (and later SP), they must have kept all that tooling and info.
Of course it would not be easy to add a meter, but definitely doable plus they now have all the other details down.
Nothing is sexier than a black Nikon RF. And I have black Leica Ms.

https://imaging.nikon.com/history/ch...y-s3/index.htm
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Old 5 Days Ago   #120
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