135 film expiration dates and effects
Old 07-26-2019   #1
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135 film expiration dates and effects

When does 135 film goes off? I've had up to 150 rolls of 135mm film -mostly color 200 and 400 ISO stored in a black tote in a climate controlled warehouse for a period of 4 years. Most of this film expired some 1.5 to 2 years prior. I am planning to bring it with me to SE Asia in a few weeks time. What to expect in terms of picture quality?
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Old 07-26-2019   #2
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If it is store properly i.e. cold, it lasts forever... Just realized all my C200 I've been shooting expired in 2015.
Sample of 4 year expired C200:



And lets push it back further. This is from a roll of Kodak E100 I just shot. It expired in 2001, so almost 19 years old:



Both films were shot at box speed. There is 'conventional wisdom' that says you are meant to add 1 stop of exposure for every 10 years aged, but I have no idea who made that up, and why people believe it. Because what matters is if the film has been hit with heat during its storage. That's why all film has instructions on the box stating to keep it cool.
I have not added any compensation for age, and the results speak for themselves.
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Old 07-27-2019   #3
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I'm glad this topic has come up.
I store mine in the fridge at about +5C; there's no room in the freezer (we have two) since they're stuffed with food. Does +5C qualify as being cold enough for ong storage, eg 5 to 10 years?
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Old 07-27-2019   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Wijninga View Post
When does 135 film goes off?
That depends on film speed and storage condition. The lower the film speed, the better generally the long-term stability of the emulsion.
TMZ, Delta 3200, Superia 1600, Portra 800 have much much shorter lifespans than ISO 100 films e.g.

The colder the storage temperature, the longer the film last.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Wijninga View Post
I've had up to 150 rolls of 135mm film -mostly color 200 and 400 ISO stored in a black tote in a climate controlled warehouse for a period of 4 years. Most of this film expired some 1.5 to 2 years prior. I am planning to bring it with me to SE Asia in a few weeks time. What to expect in terms of picture quality?
If it was below 15C in that warehouse, then probably the films will be o.k.

Cheers, Jan
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Old 07-27-2019   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricoh View Post
I'm glad this topic has come up.
I store mine in the fridge at about +5C; there's no room in the freezer (we have two) since they're stuffed with food. Does +5C qualify as being cold enough for ong storage, eg 5 to 10 years?
+5C is good for at least 5 years storage for films up to ISO 400. That I know from my own experiences with color films of that speed.

Cheers, Jan
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Old 07-27-2019   #6
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For sure there is a date that at some point it will be an issue, but you should be fine. Even freezing the film will not prevent eventual deterioration. The problem comes from cosmic rays from space (sounds like a 50's sci fi movie, doesn't it?), and they penetrate everything and everyone. Even though we can't see or feel them, they're always there. This will will eventually fog the film. That's why there's use-by dates on the films. The faster the film, the sooner it becomes fogged.
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Old 07-27-2019   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HHPhoto View Post
+5C is good for at least 5 years storage for films up to ISO 400. That I know from my own experiences with color films of that speed.

Cheers, Jan
Thank you. I rest reasonably relaxed now you've informed me. My trouble, I buy film even though I already have too much. I must stop buying, but when bulk offers appear I'm hooked.
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Old 07-27-2019   #8
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I have around 10 rolls of Kodak Vericolor III, 220, expired in 1994 (5 roll Pro Pack) and 1996 (5 roll Pro Pack). I found them in my dad's garage (southern California, insulated, but not cooled, so likely 85+ Deg. F every summer). I imagine he had them in the refrigerator up to some point, then just gave up on them and stuck them in a drawer.

I am thinking maybe shoot them at ISO 6-12 (if I even want to spend the money to process them!). I may just run exposure tests on one roll of the 1994, and go from there, i.e., ISO 6, 12, 25, 50, 100, 160 (box speed).

This guy shot at ISO 20. I am not sure it is even worth shooting.

https://schneidan.com/2016/04/19/exp...color-iii-vps/
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Old 07-27-2019   #9
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Thanks, for your feedback. I am reassured and will bring as much film as I can carry. Once in Asia, I'll put it in the freezer.
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expired vericolor
Old 07-28-2019   #10
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expired vericolor

"I have around 10 rolls of Kodak Vericolor III, 220, expired in 1994 (5 roll Pro Pack) and 1996 (5 roll Pro Pack). I found them in my dad's garage (southern California, insulated, but not cooled, so likely 85+ Deg. F every summer). I imagine he had them in the refrigerator up to some point, then just gave up on them and stuck them in a drawer.

I am thinking maybe shoot them at ISO 6-12 (if I even want to spend the money to process them!). I may just run exposure tests on one roll of the 1994, and go from there, i.e., ISO 6, 12, 25, 50, 100, 160 (box speed)."

Vericolor (L & S) was marketed as a Pro film. It was stored cold and expected to be quickly shot and processed, so it was not designed to have a long shelf life. It had very accurate color if used as planned, and then it went "off" quickly, like 12 months. 20 years in a drawer up to 85 degrees would not be worth shooting, nor of any particular interest i would think.
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Old 07-28-2019   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by randy stewart View Post
.. 20 years in a drawer up to 85 degrees would not be worth shooting, nor of any particular interest i would think.
Defininitely. He should send it to me, I will dispose of it appropriately.
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Old 07-28-2019   #12
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This is Fujifilm Superia X-Tra 400, expiry 2009.08, stored in a friend's loft in the north of England (so warm in really hot summers and damp & miserable the remaining 364 days of the year). I gave it an extra stop of exposure. The colours took on a lovely vintage look, but about 1 in 5 of the exposures had colour shifts (like the third below).

Southall in West London, full of Indian colour.





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Old 07-28-2019   #13
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I have recently bought additional 60 rolls of Superia 100 expired in 2011. I bought it previously from the same seller, he claims it is from temperature controlled warehouse, and I tested it looks good, so now my freezer is full of old Superia 100 (>100 rolls). When the price is about 2 EUR per roll... I love expired film.



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Old 07-28-2019   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesDAMorgan View Post
stored in a friend's loft in the north of England (so warm in really hot summers and damp & miserable the remaining 364 days of the year).
As distinct from the South of England, where it's damp & miserable only on the remaining 362 days of the year.
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Old 07-30-2019   #15
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In conclusion, film expiry dates don't really mean a thing...
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Old 07-30-2019   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Wijninga View Post
In conclusion, film expiry dates don't really mean a thing...
I think storage conditions probably matters much more, but the expiry date is one data point to consider if you can't be certain about storage conditions.

Like beer, expired film is best kept chilled. This is Fujicolor Pro 400H ten years past expiry, shot two stops overexposed at E.I. 100 for good measure. You can argue whether or not the overexposure was truly necessary, but I won't argue too much as I'm happy with the results.

Hasselblad 500 C/M, Zeiss Planar T* 80mm f/2.8 CF, 8mm extension tube, Fujifilm Fujicolor Pro 400H, expired in 2008, at E.I. 100.


2018.04.14 Roll #149-000919570012.jpg
by dourbalistar, on Flickr
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Old 07-30-2019   #17
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Well, you seem to prove my point...
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Old 07-30-2019   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Wijninga View Post
Well, you seem to prove my point...
Since you know the storage conditions of your (relatively recently) expired film, I would say you could probably shoot it without any added measures. You could shoot a test roll from the batch to be sure.

Since I didn't know the storage conditions of my expired film, I followed a rule of thumb to add one stop of over-exposure for each decade past expiry, plus one more stop per my normal preference for overexposing negative film. In my case, the date of expiry was useful information that I took into consideration.

As always, your mileage may vary.
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Old 07-30-2019   #19
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Aloha dourbalistar! I'll first shoot the filmm as is and if if turns out poorly, I'll follow your protocol. Cheers, Peter
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Old 07-30-2019   #20
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Plaubel Makina 67
Agfachrome RSX II 100 expired in 2004, stored in freezer since buy and developped in Tetenal Colortec E-6
Scanned with Plustek OpticFilm 120 at 2400dpi with Silverfast AI Studio






Le Grau-du-Roi • Gard • Provence • France
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Old 07-31-2019   #21
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An expired film of less than 20 years is still fine for me.


Bought from eBay...stored unknown. Expired Sep 1943.
Leica M3DS. 7A 50mm F/1.1. Ilford SELO HP2 expired SEP 1943 at ASA 100. Rodinal 1+100 (stand dev 1 hour). Epson 4990. Taken, Mon 22, Jul 2019.





expired 1998
Leica M3DS. Summilux 50mm F/1.4 v2. Ilford Delta 100 @200, expired 1998. XTol 1+1. Epson 4990









Stored unknown

1999 EXPIRED FUJI NPH 400
Rolleicord V. Xenar 75/3.5
Fujicolor NPH 400 Expired 11-1999
Tetenal C41 Kit
Epson 4990






Stored unknown
Velvia 50 RVP Expired 2001
Tetenal E6 Kit
Epson 4990


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Old 07-31-2019   #22
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I never store films in the freezer.
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