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Save pack film...by Supersense
Old 09-20-2018   #1
robert blu
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Save pack film...by Supersense

Maybe we passionate lovers of Pack Film can hope : save pack film

Let's cross our fingers :-)

robert
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Old 09-20-2018   #2
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Robert,

Thanks for posting this.

I still have a stockpile of FP-100 in my fridge.

For me I have Polaroid backs for my baby and 4x5 Linhof's.

Cal
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Old 09-20-2018   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calzone View Post
...
I still have a stockpile of FP-100 in my fridge.

For me I have Polaroid backs for my baby and 4x5 Linhof's.

Cal
Me Too! I even have a couple of FP-3000 ...
...the problem is that I feel these few last packs so precious they I'm never sure when it's worthwhile to use them...

robert
PS: and of course there is the risk when I decide it's ok they are too long expired and no more working
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Old 09-20-2018   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robert blu View Post
Me Too! I even have a couple of FP-3000 ...
...the problem is that I feel these few last packs so precious they I'm never sure when it's worthwhile to use them...

robert
PS: and of course there is the risk when I decide it's ok they are too long expired and no more working
Robert,

My pal Christian gave me a 4x5 back that still has FP-3000 in it. I might have 7 shots left.

I really love the FP-100. I believe I have about 20 packs left.

I think I will begin to use mine soon, as you mention that it is now expired film.

Interesting to note that Fuji says to refrigerate and not to freeze the film.

Cal
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Old 09-20-2018   #5
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I was a touch over-invested in Polaroid equipment and film and sold off my pack film camera and the remainder of my Fuji pack film. Decided to stick with SX-70 type cameras and a couple of Instax.

I hope they can get some production going, however, because the pack film cameras produced super results.

G
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Old 09-20-2018   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
I was a touch over-invested in Polaroid equipment and film and sold off my pack film camera and the remainder of my Fuji pack film. Decided to stick with SX-70 type cameras and a couple of Instax.

I hope they can get some production going, however, because the pack film cameras produced super results.

G
And I bought Godfrey's Land camera and stock of FP-3000. I think I have three packs left, plus half a pack of FP-100 currently in the camera. So I am also hoping that these 'superheroes' manage somehow to re-create pack film.
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Old 09-20-2018   #7
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That's indeed very good news.
I am following his blog and his endeavours since he has started, and I think Kaps has created a very competent team. I wish them good luck!
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Old 09-21-2018   #8
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What if they made things simpler for themselves by abandoning the instant print?

I personally would be completely satisfied if packfilm only produced a negative. The negative doesn't even need to be developed instantly; I could stick them in a case for development afterward.

These cameras are a fun way to get big negatives. It'd be a shame if they all went out to pasture just because reviving the original concept of packfilm proved to be untenable. Maybe the instant film community should reconsider what it really wants.
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Old 09-21-2018   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aizan View Post
What if they made things simpler for themselves by abandoning the instant print?

I personally would be completely satisfied if packfilm only produced a negative. The negative doesn't even need to be developed instantly; I could stick them in a case for development afterward.

These cameras are a fun way to get big negatives. It'd be a shame if they all went out to pasture just because reviving the original concept of packfilm proved to be untenable. Maybe the instant film community should reconsider what it really wants.
A,

My friend Christian 3-D printed a mount to adapt a Polaroid back onto my Baby Linhof's that makes a full sized print. The corners have some fall-off with a 100/2.8 Planar, but it is still very cool. Pretty much every year I get the invite by Louis Mendez to go on the road with him, and eventually when I do I will use this camera.

A little over a year ago I bought a Baby Linhof Tech IV with the above mentioned Zeiss 100/2.8 Planar that came with a kit that included cable release, grip, masks, 6x9.5 filmholders...

I only paid $850.00 because the seller (EBAY) was very up front that the lens had a separation issue. I bought the camera as a lottery ticket thinking I could get the lens separation fixed, but John at Focal Point mentioned the risk of shattering because heat is used to separate the Balsom.

So I could of had a destroyed lens and a bill for $250.00 for that service, but everything went well. Pretty much I got back a brand new perfect 100/2.8 Planar worth about $2K if you can find one.

Linhof's are heavy, but I can shoot 120 roll film in 6x9 and 6x7; I can shoot 70mm film using my Lihnof CINE backs and shoot over sixty 6x7's without having to reload; I can shoot cut sheet films using my Graphmatics or double sided Linhof film holders.

I kid around though that when you buy a Linhof you get a free gym membership because carrying a 7 pound rigged camera surely is a workout and shooting one on the street will surely keep you young. Kinda like carrying a gallon of milk around with you all day (about 8 pounds).

Many people are not aware of all this creative film possibilities that also happen to include Polaroid.

Here in NYC you don't see people carrying around Linhof's "in the wild." Linhof's remain popular in studios, but for me it is a great way to stand out and gain some notoriety.

Cal
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Old 09-21-2018   #10
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I have some left, and I don't use it. I'm afraid I'll run out.
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Old 09-21-2018   #11
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I have 1 6x9 and 2 9x12 cameras that have pack film in holders. One even has the full pack. I keep telling myself to use the partials and stand develop, but I haven't convinced myself yet. I kind of like them as testimony to what they looked like. I don't have a 4x5 field or press camera, but would probably get one if pack film came back at a reasonable price.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robert blu View Post
Maybe we passionate lovers of Pack Film can hope : save pack film

Let's cross our fingers :-)

robert
Their Kickstarter project has started today:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...lm-re-invented
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Old 1 Week Ago   #13
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Poking around in my closet, I found my Hasselblad back with a partial pack of FP100c in it and one more unopened pack as well. I guess I should put in a pledge to feed this back...
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Old 1 Week Ago   #14
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Cool thanks for letting know

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Old 1 Week Ago   #15
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Thank you for this, Robert. I know it is silly, but because pack film is rare to get these days, I saved my remaining small stack of film, and I forgot about it!

It really is/was a wonderful invention!
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Old 1 Week Ago   #16
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Question -



I have reviewed the kickstarter but was unable to find an answer.


Are there film holders for 4x5 cameras that can use this film? I really am not in the market to buy another camera but I would like to try this film.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #17
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Yes! Polaroid made a holder, model 405, to use pack film on any 4x5 camera with a standard or graflok back. You can find them on eBay or other places where you buy used camera gear. They haven't been made in a while, and you'll probably need to clean the rollers, but they work with any standard 3 1/4 x 4 1/4 pack film from Polaroid or Fujifilm.

There are several Polaroid 405 holders available on eBay right now; prices are all over the place.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calzone View Post
100/2.8 Planar worth about $2K if you can find one.
Oh how I wish it were true. Decided earlier this year to sell on my Linhof 70 with 100mm Planar AND 3 other lenses, the 53/100/180 set being RF coupled, and 3 backs incl. the uncommon 6x9 back. No interest whatsoever, at a reasonable price. So I kept it for now. I like the camera, I just prefer shooting 4x5 if I'm carrying such a huge camera.

Anyway. I divested of all my packfilm last year. The prices were insane for the 3000B / 100C. I just don't see many applications for an instant print in my day-to-day life. Of course if I sold instant portraits on the street I would want packfilm! In fact I did that a few times, just for fun.

For this "new" product, the price, for me, is egregiously high. I simply couldn't afford to shoot it. Maybe for a special occasion, once/if in production, I would buy a pack, but otherwise it's just not something I need.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aizan View Post
What if they made things simpler for themselves by abandoning the instant print?

I personally would be completely satisfied if packfilm only produced a negative. The negative doesn't even need to be developed instantly; I could stick them in a case for development afterward.
If you want 6 shots you could shoot and develop later, with no print, I would suggest a Grafmatic film holder and normal film of your choice...
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Old 1 Week Ago   #19
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I got lucky when I heard they discontinued fb3000, I immediately bought 40 packs at the regular price. The next day they were triple. Same with fb100!

I have polaroid backs for my Hassy 503 and my Mamiya 67, but they don't use the full frame... its kind of annoying.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #20
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Done! in a few days it will be my birthday: this is a good way to celebrate it

But because I'm getting old I do hope they manage to do it quick !
Raid: I still have a few packs for my Land 340 but they are very precious and I (almost) never use them...of course the risk is they will not work when I'l decide to use them LOL

robert

PS: supersense video about it here.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #21
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This is great!

I like the small batch approach. It may be a tad expensive in the end but you can be sure of a unique product for a unique niche.

I will try to support it when I can afford to.
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Supersense launches Kickstarter for ONE INSTANT peel-apart instant film
Old 1 Week Ago   #22
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Supersense launches Kickstarter for ONE INSTANT peel-apart instant film

Link to story on PetaPixel. I'd like this to come to fruition, if only because cameras like the Polaroid 250 are great fun to use, and there's the potential to get a negative off the peel-off section.

I'm not impressed by the prototype image quality shown in the article, though. One could kindly say "there's lots of room for improvement".

from the PetaPixel article:
Quote:
Fujifilm killed off the last peel-apart instant film when it discontinued its FP-100C back in 2016 despite an effort from Impossible founder Florian Kaps to keep it alive. But now, two years later, Kaps has just announced the re-birth and re-invention of peel-apart instant film: itís called ONE INSTANT.

Developed through two years of R&D by Kaps and his team at Supersense in Vienna (which he founded after leaving Impossible in 2013), ONE INSTANT is ďa next-generation Type 100 peel-apart instant film.Ē
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Old 1 Week Ago   #23
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I did it. I know it will be not easy and there is the possibility in the beginning the quality will be not perfect, let say not what we are used to. But if there is not a beginning there will be not a development and improvement.
Therefore I decided to support it, crossing fingers :-) and wishing all the best!

robert
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Old 1 Week Ago   #24
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Time will tell, but given the way the chemistry is packaged and constituted ( I had seen a long form video and interview with the principals at the “factory” a few months ago) my guess is that, though there is lots of room for improvement, it seems unlikely to occur. Not impossible, but not a given either. Also, looking at the sample results, it is more than likely that those were not average results, those were probably the highest quality examples they could come up with out of everything they had done so far. I’m not there, so can’t say, but seems worth weighing that possibility.
While I applaud the Herculean effort, it’s a bridge too far for me personally. I will finish up the last of my Fuji 4x5 film packs, say a prayer of thanks, and let it go.
One thing though, this new film makes large format seem cheap as chips.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #25
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If a company like Supersense has to rely on kick starter funding to bring this industrial product to market, I suppose they failed to find commercial credit. Possibly to do with the design and pricing of this product. I don't mind a gamble, now and then, but this leaves me cold. All this said, I wish them well.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #26
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€11 or so per shot is likely to limit the appeal of this film. I can see plenty of value in paying this kind of money (or considerably more) for polaroid in large format but I don't think the print size of pack film justifies the kind of methodical approach that most of us would likely adopt using film costing this much. I used to shoot quite a bit of pack film with an NPC 195 but the film was a tenth of this price and was well suited to experimentation, grab shots, etc.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #27
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Yes, I agree the cost is huge and a "crazy" ! I do not think it will be a pack film for daily or common use, but once or twice a year just to keep the Land Camera working and feel related pleasure.
In the other thread about this aizan in post 8 suggested the possibility to keep things simpler just having a negative (without the print) which could be wet printed or scanned. Maybe an idea which can also keep the cost lower...

robert
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Old 6 Days Ago   #28
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https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...ed/description


Let me get that straight, they want to use the money:

40% factory and machines - don't they have a factory, yet? They bought the last Fuji instant film factory, what happened to this one and the machines inside?

15% salaries - So, they already hired staff, but cannot pay them a salary?

45% ressources (materials)

Basically, they want you to pay for their whole company, including its product, of which there is only a prototype yet, that doesn't come close to meeting the quality standards their target group expects.

Of course they have to use kickstarter, cause no sane investor is going to fall for such a bad deal. They will probably get their money, but the project is going to fail miserably and I'd actually be surprised if the pack film ever hits the shelves.
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Old 6 Days Ago   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by v0sh View Post
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...ed/description


They bought the last Fuji instant film factory, what happened to this one and the machines inside?
Can you give more details and the source of this information for all of us? Thanks
robert
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Old 6 Days Ago   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robert blu View Post
Can you give more details and the source of this information for all of us? Thanks
robert

Hi Robert,
they state so in the second paragraph (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects.../description):
Quote:
Just like we successfully did with the legendary Polaroid film by purchasing the last original factory in 2008 and restarting production the classic way.
Apparently, I got it wrong and it wasn't a Fuji Instant film factory, but they should still have a factory (building), so why do they have to rent a new one?
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Old 6 Days Ago   #31
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Apparently, I got it wrong and it wasn't a Fuji Instant film factory, but they should still have a factory (building), so why do they have to rent a new one?
I think you might be confusing this company, Supersense, with the Impossible Project. The latter did indeed acquire the old Polaroid film factory in the Netherlands. This is a new company not related to the Impossible Project other than that they have a common founder - Florian Kaps. I don't think there is any direct corporate linkage.

I agree with your general point about the use of Kickstarter.
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Old 6 Days Ago   #32
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I think it's worth pointing out that, as far as I can tell, Supersense are not (and will not be) actually making any instant film. It seems they are acquiring the film from a (presumably limited) stored stock of the old 20x24 film made by Polaroid. The One Instant proposal is really just a means of cutting up and repackaging that old film into a format that will fit into a pack film back.
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Old 6 Days Ago   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ian_watts View Post
I think you might be confusing this company, Supersense, with the Impossible Project. The latter did indeed acquire the old Polaroid film factory in the Netherlands. This is a new company not related to the Impossible Project [...]
Then why do they claim THEY bought the factory back in 2006 in the "about us" section of their kickstarter project on the One Instant pack film?
Again, the link: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...ed/description

It's the same people and the same tactics as at Impossible.
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Old 6 Days Ago   #34
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The old Polaroid factory in the Netherlands that Impossible bought produced the Polaroid Integral film. They did not have any machines for producing the peel-apart type 100 film which Supersense is now trying to revive. The last Polaroid factory producing type 100 film was in Mexico, all the machines from that factory is scrapped. The last type 100 film was produced by Fuji, they have scrapped their machines as well. Supersense will use old base material from Polaroid and produce the developing paste needed. They will produce a single exposure pack film from these materials as a first step. The plan is to develop this concept with new materials to be introduced later. Florian Kaps has nothing to do with Impossible, now Polaroid Originals, anymore.
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Old 6 Days Ago   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by v0sh View Post
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...ed/description

Let me get that straight, they want to use the money:

40% factory and machines - don't they have a factory, yet? They bought the last Fuji instant film factory, what happened to this one and the machines inside?

15% salaries - So, they already hired staff, but cannot pay them a salary?

45% resources (materials)

Basically, they want you to pay for their whole company, including its product, of which there is only a prototype yet, that doesn't come close to meeting the quality standards their target group expects.

Of course they have to use kickstarter, cause no sane investor is going to fall for such a bad deal. They will probably get their money, but the project is going to fail miserably and I'd actually be surprised if the pack film ever hits the shelves.

What incentive is there for a timely turn around for those who supported?

If the campaign is paying employee salaries.

I sure hope 40% factory and machines doesn’t equate to that plywood box they’ve shown.

I like the idea, but count me out right now, the results are trash IMHO.
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Old 6 Days Ago   #36
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Quote:
Florian Kaps has nothing to do with Impossible, now Polaroid Originals, anymore.
Impossible project is the same as Polaroid Originals, giving the company another name doesn't change this.

Kaps is one of the founders of Impossible Project, now involved in Supersense - he even started the kickstarter campaign for One Instant pack film. Still, if he's not involved in Impossible/PO anymore, then why does he (as the campaign starter on kickstarter) claim THEY (Supersense) bought that factory?
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Old 6 Days Ago   #37
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Originally Posted by robert blu View Post
Yes, I agree the cost is huge and a "crazy" ! I do not think it will be a pack film for daily or common use, but once or twice a year just to keep the Land Camera working and feel related pleasure.
In the other thread about this aizan in post 8 suggested the possibility to keep things simpler just having a negative (without the print) which could be wet printed or scanned. Maybe an idea which can also keep the cost lower...

robert
If it can cost $11/image, it is costly. It is a small luxury if you want to use such film a lot.
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Old 6 Days Ago   #38
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I’m a big supporter of instant film, but not this stuff. Too expensive, with only mediocre quality, at best. No thanks, I’ll stay on the side lines.

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Old 6 Days Ago   #39
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Quote:
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If it can cost $11/image, it is costly. It is a small luxury if you want to use such film a lot.
The price is a hurdle, and of course if the price is that high the results must achieve peerless quality to attract those willing to buy it. I mean, if you want low quality color and contrast you can already get that with instant film elsewhere and much cheaper, right?

Just for fun I've been looking at cameras that would accept these one-shot cartridges, and they look like so much fun to use. So I hope these people find a way to make this work.
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Old 6 Days Ago   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by v0sh View Post
Impossible project is the same as Polaroid Originals, giving the company another name doesn't change this.

Kaps is one of the founders of Impossible Project, now involved in Supersense - he even started the kickstarter campaign for One Instant pack film. Still, if he's not involved in Impossible/PO anymore, then why does he (as the campaign starter on kickstarter) claim THEY (Supersense) bought that factory?
I don't think he's trying to fool anyone here. I read it as work he did before this project.
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