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Wide Angle Obsession
Old 10-15-2016   #1
ernesto
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Wide Angle Obsession

Hello!

I have been a Wide lover for decades. Started with a Zeiss Biogon 21mm (for contax) then a Nikkor 20mm, later a Voightlander 12mm, and now cannot wait to have the new Hyperwide 10mm to test it!

http://phillipreeve.net/blog/review-...r-wide-heliar/

I would like to explore other photographer´s work, in this area, but haven´t got any luck in my search.
Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Ernesto
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Old 10-15-2016   #2
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ZM 18 is my widest M lens, though I would like something wider yet someday. I also shoot 21 quite a bit, both CV 21/4:


Yellow Giants by unoh7, on Flickr

and the SEM 21:


L1054117 by unoh7, on Flickr

ZM18:

Leaf Pond by unoh7, on Flickr

I find the UWA lenses a real challenge for street and people work just because of the distortion out toward the edges which makes a door, for example, seem much wider than it is. I think the guy in your link shows how hard it is to get really fresh shots UWA.

I still use the Skopar because it is so small and easy to take with.
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Old 10-15-2016   #3
Roger Hicks
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Dear Ernesto,

For decades I took it for granted that no lens could be too wide, with 21mm, 17mm, 14mm... Then I tried a 12mm. I found it astonishingly hard to use, so I don't really crave a 10mm, even though I use my other ultra-wides a good deal. I currently have 21mm, 18mm and 15mm in Leica fit and a 14mm in Nikon fit.

Of course it's all intensely personal, but my point is that I was astonished to find that any lens could actually be too wide for me!

Cheers,

R.
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Old 10-15-2016   #4
Emile de Leon
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I stopped at 14mm....don't need any more...
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Old 10-15-2016   #5
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I've used a 15mm Nikkor and a 16mm FF fisheye Nikkor in the past. Those were the widest lenses I've ever handled. But I find anything wider than 20-21mm (or equivalent) to be a little too gimmicky for my purposes. Right now my widest lens is the Fuji 14/2.8 (21mm equivalent) and it's as wide as I want.
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Old 10-15-2016   #6
Michael Markey
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I had a 21 in M mount and then I bought a 12.
The 21 I found to be very usable but the 12 was a step too far for me.
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Old 10-15-2016   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Markey View Post
I had a 21 in M mount and then I bought a 12.
The 21 I found to be very usable but the 12 was a step too far for me.
Dear Michael,

Have you tried anything between?

Cheers,

R.
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Old 10-15-2016   #8
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I find a 21mm very usable. I can use one all day if need be. A 15mm starts to get a bit too wide for me, and from what I've seen of the 10mm it's just crazy.

There is a thread in the M Lenses sub forum on the Leica forum that has a lot of ultra wide shots in it, including some at 10mm.
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Old 10-15-2016   #9
Roger Hicks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelwj View Post
I find a 21mm very usable. I can use one all day if need be. A 15mm starts to get a bit too wide for me, and from what I've seen of the 10mm it's just crazy.

There is a thread in the M Lenses sub forum on the Leica forum that has a lot of ultra wide shots in it, including some at 10mm.
Dear Michael,

Same here. My "standard" lens on the 44x66mm Alpa format is a 38/4,5 Biogon, exactly equivalent to 21mm on 35mm.

Then again, Frances's "standard" lens on her Alpa with a 56x84mm (6x9cm) back is a 35/5.6 Apo-Grandagon, the equivalent of about 16mm on 35mm. But on 35mm she prefers 50mm.

The longest lens we have for the Alpas is 58mm, which would be near enough to 21mm on 6x9cm and 32mm on the 44x66mm format.

Cheers,

R.
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Old 10-15-2016   #10
David Hughes
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Hi,

A search on Nikon and 8mm might be rewarding. Not seen one in the flesh for years...

Regards, David
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Old 10-15-2016   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Hughes View Post
Hi,

A search on Nikon and 8mm might be rewarding. Not seen one in the flesh for years...

Regards, David
Dear David,

We're presumably talking about rectilinear-drawing lenses though. Fish-eyes, and still more circular fish-eyes, are another kettle of lenses entirely. Somewhere I have some 4x5 inch shots taken with a circular fish-eye that a friend adapted by (carefully and gingerly) sawing the "petals" off a Zodiak-8 30mm full-frame fish-eye for a Kiev.

Cheers,

R.
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Old 10-15-2016   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uhoh7 View Post
ZM 18 is my widest M lens, though I would like something wider yet someday. I also shoot 21 quite a bit, both CV 21/4:
....
I find the UWA lenses a real challenge for street and people work just because of the distortion out toward the edges which makes a door, for example, seem much wider than it is. I think the guy in your link shows how hard it is to get really fresh shots UWA.

I still use the Skopar because it is so small and easy to take with.
Uhoh7, these are very nice photos, I really like those. Those colours, the nature and light just make it gorgeous.

I have a bit a love-hate relation with ultra wides. I always like it wider when shooting and when I see the results they are dissapointing empty. Guess it is my problem more than anything else. But for me, anything larger than 35mm (135eq) is just a tele. On 6x9 I like a 50mm but on 6x4.5 a 45 looks already too wide. And I cannot decide what is the issue.
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Old 10-16-2016   #13
ernesto
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Great Images uhoh7!
Yes, the limit is totally personal. I love rectilinear architectural landscapes.
Here a comparison of several focal lengths:



Although Curved spaces like this (by Dierk Topp) are very atractive to me


glight.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/uwa_fov.jpg[/IMG]
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Old 10-16-2016   #14
ernesto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Hicks View Post
Dear Ernesto,

For decades I took it for granted that no lens could be too wide, with 21mm, 17mm, 14mm... Then I tried a 12mm. I found it astonishingly hard to use, so I don't really crave a 10mm, even though I use my other ultra-wides a good deal. I currently have 21mm, 18mm and 15mm in Leica fit and a 14mm in Nikon fit.

Of course it's all intensely personal, but my point is that I was astonished to find that any lens could actually be too wide for me!

Cheers,

R.
Very interesting! I will see what happens to me with the 10mm...
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Old 10-16-2016   #15
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You forced me to think on the limit...
And I must admit that there is a limit, although I am not sure if it is on the focal length, but in the way to use it.

I see very disturbing (although still interesting) a 3 vanishing points perspective of the 10mm like this one:



But as soon as you orient the camera to have only two vanishing points, it turns more acceptable in my opinion.



In the extreme case of a perfect camera alignement to the orthogonal architectonic environment the perspective turns quieter.



But as with all rules, there are exceptions as the following:



https://joerghaag.com/2016/08/15/fil...ide-10mm-f5-6/

I love this image! and it shows more than 3 vanishing points, so why it is so acceptable to me?
I am really not sure, but it could be because the architectonic project, is NOT orthogonal, but uses many directions at many diferent (almost arbitrary) angles. This design spirit could have been hardly captured without the 10mm.
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Old 10-16-2016   #16
David Hughes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Hicks View Post
Dear David,

We're presumably talking about rectilinear-drawing lenses though. Fish-eyes, and still more circular fish-eyes, are another kettle of lenses entirely. Somewhere I have some 4x5 inch shots taken with a circular fish-eye that a friend adapted by (carefully and gingerly) sawing the "petals" off a Zodiak-8 30mm full-frame fish-eye for a Kiev.

Cheers,

R.
Hi,

I think it's dangerous to assume anything on internet forums... And the Nikon lens is great for what it was intended for many moons ago.

Regards, David
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Old 10-16-2016   #17
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This is an image I did, using the Voightlander Heliar Ultra Wide 12mm



Of course the original image was cropped to avoid unnecesary ground space in the bottom.
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Old 10-16-2016   #18
ernesto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Hughes View Post
Hi,

I think it's dangerous to assume anything on internet forums... And the Nikon lens is great for what it was intended for many moons ago.

Regards, David

Well, there is a special case in which the Nikkor 8mm could work as partially rectilinear:



At least in this image all the columns are perfectly rectilinear.
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Old 10-16-2016   #19
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In between the Fish eye perspective (of the Nikkor 8mm) and the Rectilinear Lens, there is the Cylindrical perspective.

I know I am a bit out of topic, since it is not the lens only, but the way the exposure is being made, through a rotating wide angle lens.

I am refering to the WideLux (and similar cameras) as the following:



They are reclinear in the vertical axis, and curved in the horizontal axis.

RoundShot had a model that could cover an horozontal FOV angle of more than 360 degrees!

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Old 10-16-2016   #20
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I am never using a lens on RF camera that requires external finder but I am enjoying 15mm Voigtlander Heliar in E mount on my A7.

Untitled by Martin, on Flickr
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Old 10-16-2016   #21
Juan Valdenebro
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Some impressive shots, Ernesto. I like very much the one you say you like even if it has three vanishing points... Handling those super WA lenses is really hard! Congrats for your passion & results!
Cheers,
Juan
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Old 10-16-2016   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by visualized View Post
In between the Fish eye perspective (of the Nikkor 8mm) and the Rectilinear Lens, there is the Cylindrical perspective.
With digital and image stitching, the cylindrical perspective is how I'm now thinking, seeing and taking ultra-wide shots.
I've used the 12mm VC half a dozen times for pre-visualized interior shots that would not work as panoramas; but mostly it stays at home.

I tried for the last few years to take close in focus differentiated perspectives with the 21/1.4, but without an EVF camera the framing is so difficult, so I gave up on that idea and just traded the lens for a 28/1.4.
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Old 10-16-2016   #23
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Dear Roger.

I haven't
Well not for an extended period.
I set out with the intention of buying a 15 and in retrospect that may have been a more useable solution .
I'd used a 15 briefly some years ago and wrongly assumed that a 12 wouldn't be all that different.
How wrong I was

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Old 10-16-2016   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Markey View Post
Dear Roger.

I haven't
Well not for an extended period.
I set out with the intention of buying a 15 and in retrospect that may have been a more useable solution .
I'd used a 15 briefly some years ago and wrongly assumed that a 12 wouldn't be all that different.
How wrong I was

Best
Michael

Yes! that is weird:
When you go wider and wider, just a single milimeter more in focal length makes a drastic diference!
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Old 10-16-2016   #25
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I was told for years that for portrait you should use an 85mm lens, and I followed those rules for some time, but now I see that you can use any lens you like. It is not the lens, or camera. It is creativity.

Here some Wide Angle portraits from the web, which I found specially interesting.







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Old 10-16-2016   #26
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Even Fashion Photography could be done with Wides
As shown here:
http://www.fashionphotographyblog.co...-fashion-wide/
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Old 10-16-2016   #27
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A PlayBoy Photographer using wides?

https://fstoppers.com/architecture/w...24mm-f4l-96913

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Old 10-16-2016   #28
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Or Street Photo with a Wide of 8mm





Source

http://121clicks.com/showcases/wille...et-photography
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Old 10-16-2016   #29
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Good grief Ernesto ... they`re good
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Old 10-16-2016   #30
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A strange phenomenon happens to me sometimes when I view certain photos done with ultrawides. While wide angles are generally considered as expanding the view, sometimes the opposite happens. I have a bit of claustrophobia and wide angle photos done so close to the subject that it distorts the perspective gives me a feeling of being crowded or towered over...like my space is being violated. It's hard to explain but it's not a pleasant sensation.
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Old 10-16-2016   #31
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Ernesto,

Thank you for starting this thread, it is one of the most interesting and informative I've seen here. Lots of interesting ideas and new to me ways of thinking about these extreme wides. The pictures you've found and the ones others have posted here are fascinating. The street pictures are quite amazing.

I've been wanting to take on 20/21mm on 35mm lately and consider even that a bit of a challenge in forcing me to look at things in a different way. I did try a 15 briefly but did not find much use for that; that FL might have been a bit more practical for me on an SLR or electronic viewfinder camera. I think I did get one shot I liked with it.
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Old 10-16-2016   #32
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Looking at more of the links, I also see that Ernesto is a good editor. I would not have found most of the pictures I've liked here, because I expect the photographer to do a bit more of separating the wheat from the chaff for me before presenting pictures.

I'm looking forward to what else shows up here.
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Old 10-16-2016   #33
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I'm watching this with interest as I'm considering Voighty's 15mm and 12mm M mount lenses. I love my 3,4/21 Super Angulon but am surprised at how often I want more capture of the image surrounding me.
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Old 10-16-2016   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ernesto View Post
I was told for years that for portrait you should use an 85mm lens, and I followed those rules for some time, but now I see that you can use any lens you like. It is not the lens, or camera. It is creativity.

Here some Wide Angle portraits from the web, which I found specially interesting.








Nice images - I am a sucker for near-far perspectives from ultra wides.
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Old 10-17-2016   #35
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I'm with Keith on the near/far approach, and Ernesto's later examples offer the best justification for that approach. I especially like the getting low and close with small dogs and the frog, being more accessible to their pov.
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Old 10-26-2016   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogman View Post
A strange phenomenon happens to me sometimes when I view certain photos done with ultrawides. While wide angles are generally considered as expanding the view, sometimes the opposite happens. I have a bit of claustrophobia and wide angle photos done so close to the subject that it distorts the perspective gives me a feeling of being crowded or towered over...like my space is being violated. It's hard to explain but it's not a pleasant sensation.
That is way Interesting Dogman! I am very interested in the sensations produced by these extreme perspectives. Now that you mentioned Claustrophobia, (anxiety produced by closed or narow spaces) there is also Agoraphobia which is the opposite. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agoraphobia
Perhaps you are in that side.

I am architect, and use to work in professional teams, and during that interaction I realize I have a particular tendency, that might be the opposite to your. I feel uncomfortable in narow spaces, and have an extreme tendency to huge spaces! My colleagues use to make fun of it, as if I would be an addict to Huge spaces.
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Old 10-26-2016   #37
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Thank you all for your comments. I though I was a wide Freak.
It is not that I discarded that at all, but at least now I know I am not alone!

E
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Old 10-26-2016   #38
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Very fun thread and interesting images. TY for kind words

Here a couple I could not bear to "correct"


Bright Corner by unoh7, on Flickr



Dizzy by unoh7, on Flickr

ZM 18
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Old 10-28-2016   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ernesto View Post
That is way Interesting Dogman! I am very interested in the sensations produced by these extreme perspectives. Now that you mentioned Claustrophobia, (anxiety produced by closed or narow spaces) there is also Agoraphobia which is the opposite. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agoraphobia
Perhaps you are in that side....
Nope, I'm not at all agoraphobic--it's definitely claustrophobia. I haven't always had that condition. It started several years ago when I was prescribed a narcotic pain killer and I had a bad reaction--even the enclosed space of the shower gave me an anxiety attack at that time. Since then, various conditions or circumstances give me that closed-in feeling but not like that damn pain killer did originally. I don't wish that on anyone.

I've always liked the wide angle perspective but not always at the extremes with distorted perspective. Sometimes those type photos remind me of old 1960s psychedelic films. Maybe I'm just relating to my own "bad trip".
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Old 10-28-2016   #40
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I started out with camera with 50mm lenses, and didn't know you could do otherwise. Even after I got an SLR with 50mm, it took me a while to want other lenses. I got a kit with a 135mm and a 28mm. I thought I wanted more telephoto. But I soon realized I was starting to see wide. I got an 18mm, then a 24mm. I have often wanted something wider as I developed a taste for wide shots. I got an 18-28mm for my Contax 167.

I have thought to some day get a 15mm for My Kiev and Contax II. Haven't yet, but threads like this make me want one even more.

Amazing how many others seem to have a wide mind.
Thanks for the thread.
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