Go Back   Rangefinderforum.com > Cameras / Gear / Photography > Rangefinder Forum > Image Processing: Darkroom / Lightroom / Film > Film / Developing / Chemistry

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes

Old 5 Days Ago   #41
Peter Wijninga
Registered User
 
Peter Wijninga's Avatar
 
Peter Wijninga is offline
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,698
Sure, Jan. Believe what you want to believe. In the meantime, all but a handful of shops with film processing equipment in Ho Chi Minh City -10 million inhabitants, have closed their doors. Cheers, Peter
  Reply With Quote

Old 5 Days Ago   #42
HHPhoto
Registered User
 
HHPhoto is offline
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Germany
Posts: 1,641
Quote:
Originally Posted by maigo View Post
London Drugs, a chain of dozens of pharmacy, household goods and electronics stores across Western Canada, has recently brought an 135 E6 processing machine online in one of their Richmond BC stores.
They have about 6 stores with C41 processing labs.
Previously they only processed C41 in house and E6 was farmed out to a professional lab.
This is good news as it indicates an increase in film volume through the largest photography lab group in Western Canada.

Note:
1. They do not even sell transparency films.
2. For decades London Drugs only sell Fuji and Ilford films. (And Polaroid and Instax). No Kodak.

Here is a twitter video post that shows some of the E6 handling workflow.

Prepping film and loading machine:

https://twitter.com/ldphotolab/status/1114718129702051845?s=21
https://twitter.com/ldphotolab/status/1114718434162401280?s=21

Mounting slides:
https://twitter.com/ldphotolab/status/1114719931029803008?s=21
https://twitter.com/ldphotolab/status/1114719315830366208?s=21

Michael.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The number of Film Photography youtube channels is exploding. There are already dozens of it. That is one of the reasons for increasing demand. And all of them are by young(er) photographers.
And lots of lifestyle, food and fashion youtubers have also discovered film. And make videos about it.

Here an example from young western Canadians, which are using Fuji film and the London Drugs service you have mentioned above:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpMFHUSgfiA

Cheers, Jan
  Reply With Quote

Old 5 Days Ago   #43
Ste_S
Registered User
 
Ste_S is offline
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by HHPhoto View Post
Exactly.
"Ted Striker" is again doing what he is always doing here:
- demonstrating that he has absolutely no knowledge about the industry
- spreading FUD and misinformation.

Cheers, Jan
To be honest, I find your white knighting of the film industry to be just as misinformed.

The truth lies somewhere in between your and Ted Striker's view points.
  Reply With Quote

Old 5 Days Ago   #44
HHPhoto
Registered User
 
HHPhoto is offline
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Germany
Posts: 1,641
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Wijninga View Post
Sure, Jan. Believe what you want to believe. In the meantime, all but a handful of shops with film processing equipment in Ho Chi Minh City -10 million inhabitants, have closed their doors. Cheers, Peter
They have closed their doors some years ago. That is the point.
Not in the last two years.
As members from HCMC/Saigon here on rff has reported, recently new companies have entered the market in Vietnam.
The number of users in the Vietnamese film photographer facebook group has exploded in the last 1.5 years. This group is now even much bigger than photrio!

Cheers, Jan
  Reply With Quote

Old 5 Days Ago   #45
HHPhoto
Registered User
 
HHPhoto is offline
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Germany
Posts: 1,641
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ste_S View Post
To be honest, I find your white knighting of the film industry to be just as misinformed.

The truth lies somewhere in between your and Ted Striker's view points.
"White knighting" - sorry, ridiculous.

I point to what is happening. I just give the links to the numbers and facts.
I refer to that what the manufacturers have explained at photo fairs like Photokina. These guys know their numbers!!

All the "grumpy old men" here ignoring the changes which are going on out there in the film market for example can have a look at youtube, facebook and instagram and the strongly growing film community there. But they don't do it, instead they completely ignore it.
Just another example. From travel vloggers who have discoverd film for them:
Getting straight to about a million views:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2laf8VdZdk

About color developing at home, almost half a million views:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58g_VpDh40I

Cheers, Jan
  Reply With Quote

Old 5 Days Ago   #46
Peter Wijninga
Registered User
 
Peter Wijninga's Avatar
 
Peter Wijninga is offline
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,698
Quote:
recently new companies have entered the market in Vietnam
Details are welcome. Cheers, Peter
  Reply With Quote

Old 5 Days Ago   #47
HHPhoto
Registered User
 
HHPhoto is offline
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Germany
Posts: 1,641
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Wijninga View Post
Details are welcome. Cheers, Peter
E.g. rff member 'kiemchacsu' from Vietnam has posted pictures of a new lab opening (in his long Vietnam picture thread).

And I stumbled upon two other new ones on facebook last year. But I have not written down the names (I don't speak Vietnamese). In the last months so much new companies have popped up in several countries that I cannot always keep track of all of them. And it is not my job to collect and write down all of them (and do the work the grumpy old men are to lazy to do ), I prefer spending my time going out and shooting film )
There is defintely lots of dynamic in the market.

Cheers, Jan
  Reply With Quote

Old 5 Days Ago   #48
splitimageview
Registered User
 
splitimageview is offline
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,849
Quote:
Originally Posted by HHPhoto View Post
The situation that labs closed because of general decreasing film demand already stopped about 2-5 years ago (depending on the region/country).
So the increasing demand labs are now seeing is not because of other labs closing down, but because of general increasing demand.
And despite the fact that there are now even new labs in business, founded in the last 2-3 years.

Cheers, Jan
Labs started closing well before then. And there were several years for the mail order labs to court and bring in customers who lost local support. Takes time to market and convince potential customers who never considered mailing off film before...time to build a customer base.

In addition many of the mail order labs enticed customers with superior scanning services that most local labs did very poorly, this started even before local labs dried up...

There is no real evidence here proving this is increasing film demand, unfortunately.

Further, even if there were verifiable evidence of increasing demand, one must ask: increasing compared to what? What is the baseline of demand (and when was this baseline established) and how much is the percentage increase above that baseline? Speaking industry-wide, not just individual shops.

A few labs here and there doing good business does not necessarily extrapolate to a strong, growing industry; it simply reflects individual companies executing good business plans.
  Reply With Quote

Old 5 Days Ago   #49
Ko.Fe.
Me. Write ESL. Ko.
 
Ko.Fe.'s Avatar
 
Ko.Fe. is offline
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: MiltON.ONtario
Posts: 6,823
Welcome back to where is was.
Fred Herzog has to sent his Kodak slides from Vancouver to somewhere in USA. And Minox users in Toronto used to send their films to NY, NY.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ste_S View Post
To be honest, I find your white knighting of the film industry to be just as misinformed.

The truth lies somewhere in between your and Ted Striker's view points.
+1.
  Reply With Quote

Old 5 Days Ago   #50
maigo
Registered User
 
maigo is offline
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Burnaby, BC, Canada
Posts: 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by benlees View Post
Indeed. If I drop off film at local London Drugs it goes to... Vancouver.


Sorry, using the Tapatalk app I can’t see your user details. Where are you?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
---------------------------------
My Flickr Photostream
My Flickr Albums
  Reply With Quote

Old 5 Days Ago   #51
Peter Wijninga
Registered User
 
Peter Wijninga's Avatar
 
Peter Wijninga is offline
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,698
Quote:
rff member 'kiemchacsu' from Vietnam has posted pictures of a new lab opening (in his long Vietnam picture thread).
To the best of my knowledge, 'Kiemchacsu' lives in Hanoi which is 1,646.7 km by road from HCMC. I recommend you take a cold shower and/or two aspirins. Cheers, Peter
  Reply With Quote

Old 5 Days Ago   #52
jawarden
Registered User
 
jawarden is offline
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 372
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ste_S View Post
To be honest, I find your white knighting of the film industry to be just as misinformed.

The truth lies somewhere in between your and Ted Striker's view points.
+1, this is ridiculous - these two are apparently made for each other. Tuning out.
__________________

  Reply With Quote

Old 5 Days Ago   #53
Skiff
Registered User
 
Skiff is offline
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 912
Quote:
Originally Posted by splitimageview View Post
There is no real evidence here proving this is increasing film demand, unfortunately.
That is not true.
There is lots of evidence.
Clever people just do the obvious: They talk to the people who know the market numbers: Film manufacturers, film distributors and lab owners.
A group of about ten rff members has exactly done that last photokina (the biggest photo fair in the world, all relevant players have been there).
Jan was one of the members, by the way. And I was also in that group.

And all these film companies - independently from each other - explained the same: The film market has changed to the positive. And this change is significant. Some markets and product groups have had already 30-50% growth p.a.. And most have seen at least 5-10% growth rates.
That are the facts. Period.

A friend of mine visited recently the WPPI. Kodak and Fujifilm again confirmed the positive market outlook there. Fujifilm said there that they are prepared to be in the film business for further decades.
Why none of the bashers here visited the WPPI??

Instead here on rff the "armchair experts" and doom and gloom prayers avoid to visit the photo fairs and talk to the relevant people. They are too lazy and ignorant to get their asses up to get true data from the guys who know because they are running the businesses.
These armchair experts have a strong believe in the "film is dead" religion. They have been brainwashed for more than a decade and are blind to see that the situation is changing.
They are ignorant to the big amount of young users entering the film market (which can be clearly seen on all social media channels). They are ignorant to the fact that instax film is now the most successful photo product surpassing DSLR and DSLM sales.
  Reply With Quote

Old 5 Days Ago   #54
Phil_F_NM
Camera hacker
 
Phil_F_NM's Avatar
 
Phil_F_NM is offline
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Age: 42
Posts: 3,838
Quote:
Originally Posted by ptpdprinter View Post
Is there still a lab in Philadelphia that will do 4x5 in E6 and C41?
No.
I wish we still had Philly photographics, which was the only lab I trusted in a 75 mile radius.
I have hope for film but on the ground in the 5th largest city in the USA, the situation doesn't look as rosy as some would have us believe. It's not grim either but I wouldn't trust my film to the remaing minilab operators left in the city.

Phil Forrest
  Reply With Quote

Old 5 Days Ago   #55
Archlich
Registered User
 
Archlich is offline
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,220
Demand, in some places, are rising. In many other places services and supplies are drying up. Prices are on a wild ride, both camera and film. Don't quite match up do they?

I'd say we'd have to factor in the demographics. It's different people who are getting into the super trendy film photography than those who are forced to leave decades of business and practice behind. Guess who's who.
  Reply With Quote

Old 5 Days Ago   #56
ptpdprinter
Registered User
 
ptpdprinter is offline
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,539
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil_F_NM View Post
No.
I wish we still had Philly photographics, which was the only lab I trusted in a 75 mile radius.
I have hope for film but on the ground in the 5th largest city in the USA, the situation doesn't look as rosy as some would have us believe. It's not grim either but I wouldn't trust my film to the remaing minilab operators left in the city.
Which begs the question: where is the film renaissance actually occurring?
__________________
ambientlightcollection.com
  Reply With Quote

Old 5 Days Ago   #57
Phil_F_NM
Camera hacker
 
Phil_F_NM's Avatar
 
Phil_F_NM is offline
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Age: 42
Posts: 3,838
Quote:
Originally Posted by ptpdprinter View Post
Which begs the question: where is the film renaissance actually occurring?
Exactly. This thread is about professional labs and I have seen several close recently. NFL films closed their wet lab a few years ago and they were the largest pro bulk processor of film on the east coast, if not the nation. When that happened, most of the college still and motion programs went full digital and are not coming back. Yes, two local colleges still teach film photography, black and white only. One is the community college, the other is the Tyler School of Fine Art at Temple university but for photography degrees, the major is all digital now. All the journalism school labs closed in 2010 and started offering courses in cell phone photography, I kid you not.
So film may be seeing a little uptick and I hope it continues but the milennial attention span may just move on to the next shiny thing after developing film becomes inconvenient for any reason, whatsoever. We'll see.
Phil Forrest
  Reply With Quote

Old 5 Days Ago   #58
Prest_400
Multiformat
 
Prest_400's Avatar
 
Prest_400 is offline
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Sweden/Spain
Posts: 856
It indeed is an interesting discussion. I observe that some models are shifting, observe how the hip labs that work mail order and scan, sending the files through cloud platforms are having good business. Carmencita lab in Spain grew this last 5 years to process about 6K rolls a day, from a tiny minilab garage operation, and they seem to be quite an important presence with a catchment area up to Russia. The editorial and wedding scene, which are their main clients, seem to shoot happily Portra and 400H.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil_F_NM View Post
So film may be seeing a little uptick and I hope it continues but the milennial attention span may just move on to the next shiny thing after developing film becomes inconvenient for any reason, whatsoever. We'll see.
Phil Forrest
OTOH I'm in a student city of 200K in Sweden and joined the local camera club. It keeps a solid film group and 2 darkrooms but we are just about 25-30 people subscribed to use them freely. The local school offers a course on film that is taught in our premises.
The club grabbed a lot of free stuff from both from an aerial company and a school. 20+ Rolls of RC paper, a 4x5 durst enlarger and accesories, aerial rolls and a few other goodies. Ironically I was told that the school had a darkroom with 10 enlargers but chose to donate that paper and was buying fresh kentmere instead.

Of course, I'm not counting the possible many that are out there. Many students do shoot film. Yesterday I met a 33 year old who sold me some film overstock. I saw a kid in the pub shooting with a generic 80s P&S and non-chalantly flashing his friends.
There's a monthly open event for darkroom and occasionally a group of 19-22 year olds drop in, but they don't really seem very commited. But the % overall is low. Also, I noticed that spotting DSLRs is becoming rare.



We bought a couple E6 kits to do a developing pool this Spring. E6 does seem to sit on weaker ground.
  Reply With Quote

Old 5 Days Ago   #59
Bill Clark
Registered User
 
Bill Clark's Avatar
 
Bill Clark is offline
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Minnetonka, Minnesota
Age: 70
Posts: 2,448
Face it folks.

Film is a niche market.

The demand went down so much it had no where to go but up a little or it’s the bottom of the 9th.

Here is an article for you to read, if you’re interested:

It’s from a few years ago but the hand writing is on the wall.

https://www.thephoblographer.com/201...aphy-industry/

Here’s one on Hollywood using film:

https://stephenfollows.com/film-vs-digital/
__________________
I can freeze time.
What's your super power?
  Reply With Quote

Old 5 Days Ago   #60
Ko.Fe.
Me. Write ESL. Ko.
 
Ko.Fe.'s Avatar
 
Ko.Fe. is offline
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: MiltON.ONtario
Posts: 6,823
I like old film films, but it is not competitive media in film industry anymore.
  Reply With Quote

Old 5 Days Ago   #61
chipgreenberg
Registered User
 
chipgreenberg is offline
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 82
I'll second this. I've been using the FIND lab. They are owned and run by young people. They understand websites, social media. They do a great job scanning, deliver my files for download and have several options regarding returning my negatives. They seem to be editorial/wedding/Portra/400h centric. There are a bunch of labs like this now.

Do I LOVE sending my film in the mail? No. But that's where the market is now. I shoot for fun. When photography paid the bills the days take never left your (or your assistant's) side till it hit the lab. If I was shooting high dollar weddings and sending my film by mail I'd be nervous. I use priority mail and haven't had a problem.

Interestingly while googling around on this topic I found there is still a lab in Albuquerque, a city MUCH smaller than Chicago or Philly that runs C41 daily. Been there 32 years. May have to give them a try.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Prest_400 View Post
It indeed is an interesting discussion. I observe that some models are shifting, observe how the hip labs that work mail order and scan, sending the files through cloud platforms are having good business. Carmencita lab in Spain grew this last 5 years to process about 6K rolls a day, from a tiny minilab garage operation, and they seem to be quite an important presence with a catchment area up to Russia. The editorial and wedding scene, which are their main clients, seem to shoot happily Portra and 400H.


OTOH I'm in a student city of 200K in Sweden and joined the local camera club. It keeps a solid film group and 2 darkrooms but we are just about 25-30 people subscribed to use them freely. The local school offers a course on film that is taught in our premises.
The club grabbed a lot of free stuff from both from an aerial company and a school. 20+ Rolls of RC paper, a 4x5 durst enlarger and accesories, aerial rolls and a few other goodies. Ironically I was told that the school had a darkroom with 10 enlargers but chose to donate that paper and was buying fresh kentmere instead.

Of course, I'm not counting the possible many that are out there. Many students do shoot film. Yesterday I met a 33 year old who sold me some film overstock. I saw a kid in the pub shooting with a generic 80s P&S and non-chalantly flashing his friends.
There's a monthly open event for darkroom and occasionally a group of 19-22 year olds drop in, but they don't really seem very commited. But the % overall is low. Also, I noticed that spotting DSLRs is becoming rare.



We bought a couple E6 kits to do a developing pool this Spring. E6 does seem to sit on weaker ground.
  Reply With Quote

Old 5 Days Ago   #62
Prest_400
Multiformat
 
Prest_400's Avatar
 
Prest_400 is offline
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Sweden/Spain
Posts: 856
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Clark View Post
Face it folks.

Film is a niche market.

The demand went down so much it had no where to go but up a little or it’s the bottom of the 9th.
Indeed Bill. However, what is important here is whether this niche is still decreasing or went growing again. The latter is very welcome for the manufacturers.
B&W is no issue given the smaller manufacturers, see Adox who are building a right sized factory. However, for color we've got Kodak, Fuji and perhaps a couple other players that aren't really into it (Inoviscoat uses Agfa tech and IIRC they provide negative material to Polaroid).


When it comes to Kodak, Motion Picture is the industry that provides the volume.
What I take away is how impressive it all has held in some way, given the drastic and brutal collapse of the market through the digital revolution. Parallel to writing this post I recalled some words by Jeff Clarke: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f14HKk9k_lI
Fuji kicked the bucket on MP film long ago, and if the 30% adjustment works out to be for sustainability, it will be interesting.



Quote:
Originally Posted by chipgreenberg View Post
I'll second this. I've been using the FIND lab. They are owned and run by young people. They understand websites, social media. They do a great job scanning, deliver my files for download and have several options regarding returning my negatives. They seem to be editorial/wedding/Portra/400h centric. There are a bunch of labs like this now.
Most probably their growth encompasses the closure of other labs, but it's a whole different model that seems to be thriving.
  Reply With Quote

Old 5 Days Ago   #63
chipgreenberg
Registered User
 
chipgreenberg is offline
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 82
Could well be, but as long as there is a market I'm happy even if it's different from what it used to be

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prest_400 View Post
Most probably their growth encompasses the closure of other labs, but it's a whole different model that seems to be thriving.
  Reply With Quote

Old 4 Days Ago   #64
Steve M.
Registered User
 
Steve M. is offline
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,158
You're probably talking about Picture Perfect lab off Menaul here in Abq chip. They know their stuff, and have excellent prices. Are they as good as doing it yourself at home? They certainly are for colour because I don't know how to develop it!

Nothing is better than developing and printing B&W yourself, is it? I can refer back to decades of negs in print files for just the right film/developer combinations (and more importantly, the ones that didn't work).

There's a real need for good neighborhood labs, but it's getting awfully difficult to find the right people and equipment to keep those going and make a profit. Photography students from the college work well here, but then they graduate, move away, etc and you have to retrain people all over again.
  Reply With Quote

Old 4 Days Ago   #65
splitimageview
Registered User
 
splitimageview is offline
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,849
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skiff View Post
That is not true.
There is lots of evidence.
Unfortunately, the OP just mentioned anecdotal evidence of a single film lab. There are, of course, other such labs that have seen growth as thousands of other labs have died off.

As stated earlier, a few exceptions can be simply explained as businesses that are executing a well designed business plan.

A static or dying industry can still have individual companies experiencing rapid growth, so where is the evidence that disproves this is the case, and that it is growth across the entire industry, and not just happening with a small handful of players?

That's all we are asking, so far, no such evidence has been presented.


Quote:
And all these film companies - independently from each other - explained the same: The film market has changed to the positive. And this change is significant. Some markets and product groups have had already 30-50% growth p.a.. And most have seen at least 5-10% growth rates.
That are the facts. Period.
OK, then let's see these facts, with independent confirmation, not just data straight from the manufacturers who will benefit the most by putting on a positive spin.

With regards to 'growth' : compared to what, as I inquired before?

Be specific.

Lastly, this is a free marketplace of ideas here, it's unwise to refer to others in the discussion as 'bashers' or 'armchair experts' or 'doom and gloom prayers.' This serves no positive purpose.

If you have the facts, as you claim, simply present them to back up your argument.
  Reply With Quote

Old 4 Days Ago   #66
chipgreenberg
Registered User
 
chipgreenberg is offline
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 82
Hi Steve:

Yes that's the place. I shoot color so may try them. At least I'll find out what they use to scan and discuss my preferences. If I can avoid mailing film so much the better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve M. View Post
You're probably talking about Picture Perfect lab off Menaul here in Abq chip. They know their stuff, and have excellent prices. Are they as good as doing it yourself at home? They certainly are for colour because I don't know how to develop it!

Nothing is better than developing and printing B&W yourself, is it? I can refer back to decades of negs in print files for just the right film/developer combinations (and more importantly, the ones that didn't work).

There's a real need for good neighborhood labs, but it's getting awfully difficult to find the right people and equipment to keep those going and make a profit. Photography students from the college work well here, but then they graduate, move away, etc and you have to retrain people all over again.
  Reply With Quote

Old 4 Days Ago   #67
Ted Striker
Registered User
 
Ted Striker's Avatar
 
Ted Striker is offline
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 562
Quote:
Originally Posted by splitimageview View Post

That's all we are asking, so far, no such evidence has been presented.


Lots of squawking but as you noted, no evidence presented at all. Very interesting.
  Reply With Quote

Old 3 Days Ago   #68
Skiff
Registered User
 
Skiff is offline
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 912
Quote:
Originally Posted by splitimageview View Post
That's all we are asking, so far, no such evidence has been presented.
It has been presented here again and again. But the facts are always ignored by the doom-and-gloom prayers. Just look in the history of this subforum, there are several threads about new labs. Some months ago over at photrio there was a thread in which numbers of dozens of labs were presented, all have seen increasing demand.

But: Who knows the film sales numbers best? The film manufacturers and film distributors.
Ant they have all been there at last Photokina:
Kodak
Fuji
Ilford
Foma
Adox.
All of them have said that the market has changed, and that they see increasing demand. And they have taken action because of that: Kodak has re-introduced TMZ and Ektachrome, Fuji has reintroduced E6 sheet film and new 3pack for C200 and X-Tra 400, and they have invested in a new online portal for film, Ilford has new chemistry packs for beginners and new marketing, Foma retropan Soft, Adox is even building a complete new factory and will put new products like HR-50, CHS 100 II, Polywarmtone Paper and a BW reversal kit on the market soon.

And the big international distributors like B&H, FS, Fotoimpex, ars-imago, Punto, Labo-Argentique/Bergger etc. also all said that they have significantly increasing demand.

The increasing demand is also shown by the exploding activities concerning film on youtube, instagram and facebook.

Quote:
Originally Posted by splitimageview View Post
With regards to 'growth' : compared to what, as I inquired before?
Compared to the time of the all time low, the bottom of the market.
Depending on the region, and depending on the product the all time low(s) were in the time frame from 2014 to 2017.
  Reply With Quote

Old 3 Days Ago   #69
jsrockit
Moderator
 
jsrockit's Avatar
 
jsrockit is offline
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Santiago, Chile
Age: 45
Posts: 19,644
Let’s not forget the increase in prices for film cameras over the last two years. I don’t think anyone thinks the numbers haven’t gone up. We just may not be as optimistic for a full blown renaissance. I hope we are wrong. It’s great to have choices.

Here in Santiago Chile, they have a semi new lab that does great work. It’s expensive though. Most people seem to be using lower end film cameras here, but we do have a few Facebook groups selling nicer equipment. Mostly when I’m out photographing I see digital cameras.
  Reply With Quote

Old 3 Days Ago   #70
brbo
Registered User
 
brbo's Avatar
 
brbo is offline
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,390
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skiff View Post
Fuji has reintroduced E6 sheet film
Which films exactly?
__________________

  Reply With Quote

Old 3 Days Ago   #71
Peter Wijninga
Registered User
 
Peter Wijninga's Avatar
 
Peter Wijninga is offline
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,698
Quote:
Here in Santiago Chile, they have a semi new lab that does great work. It’s expensive though. Most people seem to be using lower end film cameras here, but we do have a few Facebook groups selling nicer equipment. Mostly when I’m out photographing I see digital cameras.
In Ho Chi Minh City, the situation is very similar. There is a film revival with a lot of younger shooters but it remains a rather expensive niche market.
  Reply With Quote

Old 3 Days Ago   #72
Prest_400
Multiformat
 
Prest_400's Avatar
 
Prest_400 is offline
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Sweden/Spain
Posts: 856
I recall some discussion about new labs in Thailand, which attracted a good amount of customers and there was a case where one was much more than just a minilab operation but they also had a rental darkroom.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jsrockit View Post
Let’s not forget the increase in prices for film cameras over the last two years. I don’t think anyone thinks the numbers haven’t gone up. We just may not be as optimistic for a full blown renaissance. I hope we are wrong. It’s great to have choices.

Here in Santiago Chile, they have a semi new lab that does great work. It’s expensive though. Most people seem to be using lower end film cameras here, but we do have a few Facebook groups selling nicer equipment. Mostly when I’m out photographing I see digital cameras.
The good ones indeed, many Medium Format cameras.


I live in a student city and I do notice that I don't actually spot DSLRs that often. Of course film cameras much less given the proportion, but cellphones took the role of snapshot and might have replaced that low end DSLR for many.
  Reply With Quote

Old 3 Days Ago   #73
splitimageview
Registered User
 
splitimageview is offline
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,849
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skiff View Post
It has been presented here again and again. But the facts are always ignored by the doom-and-gloom prayers. Just look in the history of this subforum, there are several threads about new labs. Some months ago over at photrio there was a thread in which numbers of dozens of labs were presented, all have seen increasing demand.

But: Who knows the film sales numbers best? The film manufacturers and film distributors.
Ant they have all been there at last Photokina:
Kodak
Fuji
Ilford
Foma
Adox.
All of them have said that the market has changed, and that they see increasing demand. And they have taken action because of that: Kodak has re-introduced TMZ and Ektachrome, Fuji has reintroduced E6 sheet film and new 3pack for C200 and X-Tra 400, and they have invested in a new online portal for film, Ilford has new chemistry packs for beginners and new marketing, Foma retropan Soft, Adox is even building a complete new factory and will put new products like HR-50, CHS 100 II, Polywarmtone Paper and a BW reversal kit on the market soon.

And the big international distributors like B&H, FS, Fotoimpex, ars-imago, Punto, Labo-Argentique/Bergger etc. also all said that they have significantly increasing demand.

The increasing demand is also shown by the exploding activities concerning film on youtube, instagram and facebook.



Compared to the time of the all time low, the bottom of the market.
Depending on the region, and depending on the product the all time low(s) were in the time frame from 2014 to 2017.
Actually the peak was 2003, according to Fujifilm:

“The film market peaked in 2003 with 960 million rolls of film, today it represents roughly 2% of that,” says Manny Almeida, president of Fujifilm’s imaging division in North America.

If indeed there is increasing demand it's tiny growth in a very small niche.

Still waiting for real data. How about some financial statements, for example, not just comments from marketing departments? If the growth is real, present the sales data, rather than simply claim the "growth is a fact" while disparaging those that have valid arguments to the contrary.
  Reply With Quote

Old 3 Days Ago   #74
Skiff
Registered User
 
Skiff is offline
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 912
Quote:
Originally Posted by brbo View Post
Which films exactly?
Provia 100F in 8x10" and Velvia 100 in 4x5" and 8x10".
  Reply With Quote

Old 3 Days Ago   #75
Skiff
Registered User
 
Skiff is offline
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 912
Quote:
Originally Posted by splitimageview View Post
Actually the peak was 2003, according to Fujifilm:

“The film market peaked in 2003 with 960 million rolls of film, today it represents roughly 2% of that,” says Manny Almeida, president of Fujifilm’s imaging division in North America.
That was the number for the North American market only.
The global market had its peak in 1999/2000 with about 3 billion rolls (source: Fujifilm Japan), and/or according to the PMA in 2001/2002 with about 3.5 billion rolls (including all formats and SUC). You will find this data in R. Shanebrooks book "Making Kodak Film" on page 267.
The GfK (big global market research company) published a number of 2.8 billion rolls for 1994/95.

Quote:
Originally Posted by splitimageview View Post
Still waiting for real data. How about some financial statements, for example, not just comments from marketing departments?
For almost a decade now the global market research companies did not collect data anymore. And before that you had to pay lots of money for the data.
Now only the manufacturers, the distributors and small independent market researchers have the data (and we talked to them, not to "marketing people"). I've worked for decades as a professional photographer, lot's of excellent contacts remained.
Ilford e.g. had +9% in film sales in 2017, Kodak +5 to +20% depending on the market. Bergger had delivery problems because the batch of Pancro 400 IC made for them has been sold in only one year instaed of the expected two years. Fotoimpex explained they have double digit growth for years. Fujifilm Europe had massive film backorders, because demand surpassed supply in first half of 2018. Fujifilm introduced the new Maxima high-quality silver-halide paper at Photokina. JOBO is introducing new lab gear because of increasing demand (they were very satiesfied with demand from the Photokina, too). Just some examples from the last Photokina.

Again:
All the major companies in this industry have introduced new products, are currently working on new products and / or have started numerous marketing efforts. All very clear signs of the recent positive market change.
  Reply With Quote

Old 3 Days Ago   #76
JeffS7444
Registered User
 
JeffS7444 is offline
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 132
It's already been posted elsewhere, but in this recent presentation, Mirko Böddecker of ADOX gave a very lucid commentary on the state of film market and the challenges in keeping it healthy:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4-WLDm-e8A


And I for one am cautiously optimistic that ADOX will be around for awhile
  Reply With Quote

Old 3 Days Ago   #77
brbo
Registered User
 
brbo's Avatar
 
brbo is offline
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,390
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skiff View Post
Provia 100F in 8x10" and Velvia 100 in 4x5" and 8x10".
When were they discontinued?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffS7444 View Post
And I for one am cautiously optimistic that ADOX will be around for awhile
I don't care about ADOX (although I wish them all the best). BW film will be around for the next 50 years with or without them. Not so sure about colour films without Fuji or Kodak making them.
__________________

  Reply With Quote

Old 3 Days Ago   #78
Skiff
Registered User
 
Skiff is offline
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 912
Quote:
Originally Posted by brbo View Post
When were they discontinued?!
They were on the internal list for discontinuation, but then Fujifilm cancelled that decision and kept them in the line because of the positive market changes.
  Reply With Quote

Old 3 Days Ago   #79
JeffS7444
Registered User
 
JeffS7444 is offline
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by brbo View Post
Not so sure about colour films without Fuji or Kodak making them.

Depends on how well they can scale down their operations to meet 21st century realities. Did you check out the video? Böddecker illustrates just how massive some of the older factories were.
  Reply With Quote

Old 3 Days Ago   #80
Skiff
Registered User
 
Skiff is offline
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 912
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffS7444 View Post
Depends on how well they can scale down their operations to meet 21st century realities. Did you check out the video? Böddecker illustrates just how massive some of the older factories were.
Both already had scaled down to fit the lowest demand some time ago when demand was at its all time low.
Now with increasing demand they most probably can keep the lines running.
Kodak is demonstrating it by re-introduced TMZ and Ektachrome. Fujifilm by producing niche products like Velvia 50 and Provia / Velvia 100 sheet film.
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 15:15.


vBulletin skin developed by: eXtremepixels
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

All content on this site is Copyright Protected and owned by its respective owner. You may link to content on this site but you may not reproduce any of it in whole or part without written consent from its owner.