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Optics Theory - This forum is aimed towards the TECHNICAL side of photographic OPTICS THEORY. There will be some overlap by camera/manufacturer, but this forum is for the heavy duty tech discussions. This is NOT the place to discuss a specific lens or lens line, do that in the appropriate forum. This is the forum to discuss optics or lenses in general, to learn about the tech behind the lenses and images. IF you have a question about a specific lens, post it in the forum about that type of camera, NOT HERE.

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Lens with 3D look
Old 03-05-2017   #1
andreart
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Lens with 3D look

hi. What Leica lens produces this 3D look on modern digital Leica cameras ?
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Old 03-05-2017   #2
Nathan King
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In my experience subtle lighting cues have by far the most pronounced influence on the illusion of depth in a photograph. Chasing after lenses will likely end in disappointment as I have yet to come across a lens which is capable of this irrespective of light quality.
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Old 03-06-2017   #3
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I once saw a photo in a book or magazine of a couple sat on the edge of a cliff or something and the background was out of focus, but if I looked at the background that was between the couple, the pic looked a bit 3D.
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Old 03-06-2017   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan King View Post
In my experience subtle lighting cues have by far the most pronounced influence on the illusion of depth in a photograph. Chasing after lenses will likely end in disappointment as I have yet to come across a lens which is capable of this irrespective of light quality.
Good answer! I think it is probably an oversimplification to attribute a 3D effect to only the lens. Lighting has to play a part, as well as the subject matter itself. I am noticing, recently, that Zeiss lenses seem to be getting some recognition for this--time will tell. We'll see if people are still saying this in six months or a year. I think you get more 3D effect with longer lenses, used at wide apertures, regardless of the brand.
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Old 03-06-2017   #5
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ZM biogon 35mm F2.
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Old 03-06-2017   #6
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2/75 Apo 'cron ... my least used lens. The lens produces technically brilliant results, not sure why I don't use it more often. FL itself or the odd frame corners. Anyway I have a couple of shots that have kind of a 3D quality to it. In the end, if the subject isn't interesting, the most techically brilliant lens doesn't help
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Old 03-06-2017   #7
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All in the lighting. With the right lighting my Holga can give some amazing 3D effects.
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Old 03-06-2017   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLKRCAT View Post
ZM biogon 35mm F2.

Out of what I own I'd be picking that lens also ... it almost lives on my 240.
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Old 03-06-2017   #9
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Pentax 105mm f2.4
Contax 80mm f2
Contax G 45mm f2
Fujifilm 35mm f1.4 XF and also to a lesser extent the f2 version

Of the lenses I've used, these have the most three dimensional rendering.
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Old 03-06-2017   #10
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https://www.mir.com.my/rb/photograph...ica-Stereo.htm

No lens can beat this one. When reading these 3d pop things, it's pretty apparent that most of it is just justification of purchase. Or maybe my eyes are too close to each other or something
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Old 03-06-2017   #11
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It's definitely in the lighting. But there's something about the way medium and large format lenses render which give them more of a 3D look to me.


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Old 03-06-2017   #12
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I'd first like people to post images that they claim has this "3D" rendering. I'm skeptical of this claim that's circulated for years. Prove me wrong!
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Old 03-06-2017   #13
Alfonso B
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeV View Post
I'd first like people to post images that they claim has this "3D" rendering. I'm skeptical of this claim that's circulated for years. Prove me wrong!
Or better yet, 2 images from the same place, second one taken with a lens that is well known for it's 1,2 or 4d rendering.
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Old 03-06-2017   #14
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Large format does it in my opinion but we are veering away from the subject a little because the op's question did relate to digital use.

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Old 03-06-2017   #15
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Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by andreart View Post
hi. What Leica lens produces this 3D look on modern digital Leica cameras ?
What Leica-branded lens, or what lens from any manufacturer that natively mounts on digital Leica cameras?

BTW nice 3D pic of "Grey Poles", Keith. Maybe add some blue toner to increase its resale
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Old 03-06-2017   #16
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C Sonnar 50mm f1.5, M4 AP400 in D76
(apologies for mis-identifying the lens earlier)


friendly #611 by lynnb's snaps, on Flickr
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Last edited by lynnb : 03-06-2017 at 18:17. Reason: correct lens info
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Old 03-06-2017   #17
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Surely it has something to do with dof.

I've seen plastic effects with a few of my Nikkors when printed large. Namely the 85/1.8 and 105/2.5 both K lenses. Plus a very few instances on the screen.
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Old 03-06-2017   #18
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Look up some sample images of the old 5cm f3.5 elmar (in LTM) and cover one eye. In more than a few cases the 3D effect is quite astonishing, IMHO.
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Old 03-06-2017   #19
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The long answer is that the 3D effect has to do with many things other than the glass you are using, composition, DoF, perspective, lighting, blah blah blah, computer monitor, printing paper, blah blah blah

the short answer i think is large format cuz its hi-res, so very life-like = 3D.
or the Pentax 67 Medium Format system, amazing with properly used DoF.

Also some of the panoramic cameras do a nice job when the picture is taken from a moving lens across the field of view.

would agree with some of the older Leica lenses, the Summitar 50/2, I also like the 50mm Summicron, v2. I have the "radiographic" version, but honestly, dont know if thats a factor.
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Old 03-06-2017   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andreart View Post
hi. What Leica lens produces this 3D look on modern digital Leica cameras ?
Although this is relating to digital cinematography and Cooke vs new asph Leica lenses I feel it a relevant discussion about different optics under very controlled conditions. I've seen similar results from the asph Leica lens kit I bought for the M9 that I had. I actually wound up selling my new asph Leica glass because I felt it was lifeless and sterile. I went back to Zeiss and vintage Leica lenses. You may feel different but the video is quite interesting and reveals a noticeable difference in optics. Take a look.

https://vimeo.com/90168989
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Old 03-06-2017   #21
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Quote:
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I'd first like people to post images that they claim has this "3D" rendering. I'm skeptical of this claim that's circulated for years. Prove me wrong!

Pozer
by Scapevision, on Flickr


Wheels
by Scapevision, on Flickr

How's this?
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Old 03-06-2017   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeV View Post
I'd first like people to post images that they claim has this "3D" rendering. I'm skeptical of this claim that's circulated for years. Prove me wrong!


Considering that we're describing something subjective, it's difficult to really prove it per se. But as others have said there are a lot of factors. Separation between foreground and background being highly important.

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Old 03-06-2017   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JChrome View Post
Considering that we're describing something subjective, it's difficult to really prove it per se. But as others have said there are a lot of factors. Separation between foreground and background being highly important.
This is a fantastic photo! Care to share some details?
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Old 03-06-2017   #24
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It is subjective, IMO. Zeiss in color on digital is known for 3-D, not only on Leica. For BW it is worth to check ASHP lenses from Leica itself. Sorry, I'm not aware of cheap lenses for 3-D look. Nor I have Zeiss (anymore) or ASHP labeled Leica lenses (never)

Actually, I think, I hit it once with my relatives and Color Skopar 35 2.5!



Or maybe not...
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Old 03-06-2017   #25
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Not a Leica lens, but the 28mm Nikon 1.4 AFD provides some major 3D poppage.
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Old 03-06-2017   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scapevision View Post

Pozer
by Scapevision, on Flickr


Wheels
by Scapevision, on Flickr

How's this?
That is exactly it.

What/which lens/lenses?
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Old 03-06-2017   #27
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The whole point of photography is to the 3d world into a 2d image, or am i missing something?
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Old 03-06-2017   #28
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This is a fantastic photo! Care to share some details?
Looks like Burning Man. A fantastic challenge and canvas for any photographer. I go every year.
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Old 03-06-2017   #29
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Another with the C. Sonnar 50mm 1.5 on M4.
I was impressed with this lens.
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Old 03-06-2017   #30
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What is the earliest known reference to this phenomenon? I'm curious if it's something new or known since the birth of photography and has it been studied?
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Old 03-07-2017   #31
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Here's my evidence that the 35/f2 Zeiss Biogon has what can be described as a 3D effect. I think the same thing is also referred to as micro-contrast.
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Old 03-07-2017   #32
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My other contender for a good 3D effect is the Leica Elmar-M 50/2.8.
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Old 03-07-2017   #33
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I think the 3D look is enhanced by modern coatings and high contrast glass, so I would guess that it is only since the 1950's that people have started using the term.
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Old 03-07-2017   #34
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I do love the work showcased, but would still like to see a direct comparison of 2 lenses.

Edit: I think the look might indeed have something to do with high contrast, combined with high edge sharpness. That could explain why this look seems to be magnified in B&W, when you have a lens that might have a small part of the spectrum fringing while most of it is extremely well corrected. If we can associate this with actual measurable qualities, it becomes easier to point out those lenses..
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Old 03-07-2017   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lynnb View Post
C Sonnar 50mm f1.5, M4 AP400 in D76
(apologies for mis-identifying the lens earlier)


friendly #611 by lynnb's snaps, on Flickr
This has got to be one of the strongest--maybe the very strongest--3D effect shots I've seen! The dog seems ready to pop right out of my screen! The lens may not be the only contributing factor--I'm sure composition plays a big part--but it is a strong endorsement for the C Sonnar 50/1.5!
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Old 03-07-2017   #36
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Quote:
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That is exactly it.

What/which lens/lenses?
Pentax 67 with 105mm, sorry to disappoint

BTW, anyone saying it's subjective and posting simply wide open shots are definitely not getting it.
Listen to people recommending the zeiss.
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Old 03-07-2017   #37
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35 summicron v1
Think there is some 3D going on here




11-4-10-026-1-HP5
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Old 03-07-2017   #38
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The problem with 3D effect is that it usually doesn't reproduce well on a computer screen. The resolution and size often ruin the effect, which I think looks better when it is subtle rather than overblown.

Does this work at all online? Because it works quite well as a print.

Wall by Berang Berang, on Flickr

Unlike most of what you'll see posted as having a "3d" effect this one doesn't rely on obvious tricks like an extremely shallow DOF or having the main subject contrast sharply with the value or shade of the background.

Community Garden by Berang Berang, on Flickr

This one does have rather shallow DOF, so probably works better on a computer screen.

Both of these though rely primarily on texture and lighting more than anything else. The lens and format only contribute by allowing relatively "long" and smooth transitions between in focus and out of focus areas.
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Old 03-07-2017   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by x-ray View Post
Although this is relating to digital cinematography and Cooke vs new asph Leica lenses I feel it a relevant discussion about different optics under very controlled conditions. I've seen similar results from the asph Leica lens kit I bought for the M9 that I had. I actually wound up selling my new asph Leica glass because I felt it was lifeless and sterile. I went back to Zeiss and vintage Leica lenses. You may feel different but the video is quite interesting and reveals a noticeable difference in optics. Take a look.

https://vimeo.com/90168989
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Old 03-07-2017   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgilbuena View Post
Looks like Burning Man. A fantastic challenge and canvas for any photographer. I go every year.


Right on the money. You're blessed that you get to go every year!
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