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Leica M8 / M8.2 / Ricoh GXR Smaller than full frame digital Leica M mount cameras. The Ricoh is included as a less expensive and viable digital Leica M lens platform.

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Old 02-01-2011   #41
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I like the concept. Even if one is mostly a film user (as I am), the idea that there will be yet another good reason for M mount lenses to become a ubiquitous standard into the future is desirable.
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Old 02-02-2011   #42
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The problem with this idea is that the camera body is cheap to make, but the sensor and and lens are not. This is clearly evidenced by the prices of the GXR modules, which are as expensive or more expensive than their closest competition. For example, the 50/2.5 APS-C module costs about as much as a brand new Canon DSLR, which actually lets you change the lens. So the only consumer advantage of the GXR system is the theoretical environmental benefit of not manufacturing a new body for each new camera.
I wonder what is so hard to understand about the GXR concept? Take it as a high quality (APS-C) fixed lens, compact camera with the option to change modules. You dont have to.

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Ricoh users who want to put an M lens up to their eye could potentially pay $350 for the body, $250 for the EVF, and lets say $600 for the M module. At $1200, you could have bought a used RD-1. But even assuming you already had the body and EVF, a NEX is still cheaper—albeit without the EVF option.
Who wants a used RD-1? And I take a GXR over a NEX anytime because it handles and feels worlds above.
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Old 02-02-2011   #43
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I wonder what is so hard to understand about the GXR concept? Take it as a high quality (APS-C) fixed lens, compact camera with the option to change modules. You dont have to.
That's my attitude as well. I have a small and fast compact camera with a 28mm f/2.5 lens that has great high ISO capability. Now, once this module is out, I'll be able to slap some m lenses on it. If you compare a compact to a DSLR, you just don't get it and never will.
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Old 02-02-2011   #44
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Then please provide the correct into, I'm curious. Can you focus in the VF?

Of course this thing might be useable and capable of very high quality images, but without AF or some other fast viewfinder based manual focusing method it's not much use to may folks who need to work fast. Manual focusing on the screen in back is not really an option for many of us.

Nothing against Ricoh, my GRD3 is very capable.

This is why the Leica x1 failed and there are 100 x100 threads.
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Old 02-02-2011   #45
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This is why the Leica x1 failed and there are 100 x100 threads.
How did the X1 fail? Do you know Leica's numbers on this unit? Do you know how many they needed to sell to become profitable?
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Old 02-02-2011   #46
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How did the X1 fail? Do you know Leica's numbers on this unit? Do you know how many they needed to sell to become profitable?
I won't agree that it has failed, but once the X100 comes out, I just can't imagine very many people picking the X1 over the x100. Is there any single feature the X1 is improved on? It's slightly shorter from top to bottom and 170 grams lighter, but every other aspect is (at least on paper, it's not out yet) better on the X100. Faster lens, non collapsing for faster on/off times, higher res screen, built in finder, potentially better high ISO, and it's significantly cheaper.
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Old 02-02-2011   #47
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I wonder what is so hard to understand about the GXR concept? Take it as a high quality (APS-C) fixed lens, compact camera with the option to change modules. You dont have to.
I mean, that's fine—to each his own—but I guess the thing that's hard for me to understand is the pricing. As a fixed lens compact, it's $1000-1300 depending on whether you want the EVF. With tons of competition from Samsung NX, Micro 4/3, Sony NEX and the Fuji X100, the GXR pricing does not seem very competitive.
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Old 02-02-2011   #48
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I won't agree that it has failed, but once the X100 comes out, I just can't imagine very many people picking the X1 over the x100.
There are people who only buy Leica (for better or worse) and Leica knows this. They will be fine and the X1 will continue selling at the numbers Leica expects. If it wasn't, they wouldn't have introduced the black model or the multiple special editions. Also, Leica buyers aren't always the most sensible bunch when it comes to value. Also, for all its faults, the X1 is still a nice camera...and discount the size and weigh advantage... the camera is truly small and light.

There are many people who don't like the X100 just based on looks alone and it will not sell more than cheap DSLRs. Sure, the average photographer looking for a high quality compact will likely buy the Fuji over the X1 (it is a lot cheaper too), but we are talking about two niche cameras here (unless the Fuji is in Best Buy or something similar in the USA, it will definitively be a niche camera in the USA). I'm not sure about how it will do in Japan and elsewhere.
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Old 02-02-2011   #49
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Originally Posted by bensyverson View Post
With tons of competition from Samsung NX, Micro 4/3, Sony NEX and the Fuji X100, the GXR pricing does not seem very competitive.
The GXR is $1050 with your choice of a 28mm or 50mm lens. The X100 will be $1200. A brand new just introduced m4/3 model with a comparible prime are about $1000 (I believe) and the sensor isn't as good.

Again, we are comparing a niche camera that is sold by three stores in the US versus consumer cameras sold in many stores. There will be a premium based on that alone. I would imagine that most who diss the Ricoh haven't handled it. It certainly is better made than the Sony and m4/3 stuff.
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Old 02-02-2011   #50
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AAh well like someone said just another product...there is already NEX series, so what else new its gonna bring? Nothing new..I would be more happy if they produce some decent Leica M lenses

I have Sony Nex but, man I dont like digital technology...It is a personal choice...
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Old 02-02-2011   #51
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Originally Posted by LeicaFoReVer View Post
...there is already NEX series, so what else new its gonna bring? Nothing new..I would be more happy if they produce some decent Leica M lenses

I have Sony Nex but, man I dont like digital technology...It is a personal choice...
The NEX is not made specifically to work with M-Mount lenses, the NEX has key features hidden in menus, etc. The NEX is cool for its price, but it ultimately designed too much like a consumer camera with automatic modes as the focus.

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Old 02-02-2011   #52
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NEX5 is already outdated, its new version will hit the market before this Ricoh offering.
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Old 02-02-2011   #53
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The NEX is not made specifically to work with M-Mount lenses, the NEX has key features hidden in menus, etc. The NEX is cool for its price, but it ultimately design too much like a consumer camera with automatic modes as the focus.
will having a real leica mount make a difference (compared to NEX), technically? Like the distance to the sensor etc? I talk about nex considering I attach my leica lenses, so no auto focus..but focusing through lcd is really pain (under sun). EVF makes definetely difference as NEX does not have one.
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Old 02-02-2011   #54
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Originally Posted by LeicaFoReVer View Post
will having a real leica mount make a difference (compared to NEX), technically?
I think it goes beyond that really, but I'm not an expert so I concede. My point is that Ricoh will be tweaking the module to work specifically with M lenses (this goes beyond the mount). Sony did not do that with the NEX. The NEX is cool... but I've used both and the Ricoh just feels better to me.
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Old 02-02-2011   #55
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NEX5 is already outdated, its new version will hit the market before this Ricoh offering.
It's only outdated if you let it be... Plus, Ricoh is not competing with Sony. Sony already won in the volume category.
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Old 02-02-2011   #56
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I think it goes beyond that really, but I'm not an expert so I concede. My point is that Ricoh will be tweaking the module to work specifically with M lenses (this goes beyond the mount). Sony did not do that with the NEX. The NEX is cool... but I've used both and the Ricoh just feels better to me.
What will be really cool, in an interesting way (since I don't really want a Nex or a GXR) is how the Nex with it's "normal" microlenses compares with the same lenses to the GXR sensor if it has the offset microlenses of the m8/m9/x100. To see how much it controls vignetting, sharpness, etc.
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Old 02-02-2011   #57
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What will be really cool, in an interesting way (since I don't really want a Nex or a GXR) is how the Nex with it's "normal" microlenses compares with the same lenses to the GXR sensor if it has the offset microlenses of the m8/m9/x100. To see how much it controls vignetting, sharpness, etc.
That's what I'm getting at... it could make a difference. Who knows though... I'm a Ricoh user, so I'm excited. However, if I was a NEX user, I'd probably diss this too. I probably wouldn't be in a thread about a camera I don't care about though.
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Old 02-21-2011   #58
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That's what I'm getting at... it could make a difference. Who knows though... I'm a Ricoh user, so I'm excited. However, if I was a NEX user, I'd probably diss this too. I probably wouldn't be in a thread about a camera I don't care about though.
what happened? I thought you were excited for this system? isn't that your GXR body and 28mm lens for sale in the classifieds?
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Old 02-21-2011   #59
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what happened? I thought you were excited for this system? isn't that your GXR body and 28mm lens for sale in the classifieds?
Hmmm, figured someone would call me out on this. Typical RFF. I'd like to buy some other stuff if that is ok with you sir?

Honestly, I can rebuy it later if I want to use the M-module. I use plenty of cameras. Right now I'm into to acquiring M lenses for my M8.2.
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Old 07-11-2011   #60
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Originally Posted by videogamemaker View Post
What will be really cool, in an interesting way (since I don't really want a Nex or a GXR) is how the Nex with it's "normal" microlenses compares with the same lenses to the GXR sensor if it has the offset microlenses of the m8/m9/x100. To see how much it controls vignetting, sharpness, etc.
Voigtlander 15mm f/4.5 on Ricoh GXR M-Mount module (Not final version of course)



Doesn't seem to have much vignetting.
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Old 07-11-2011   #61
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I'm pretty excited about this, though I'm torn whether I should just keep shooting film until I can afford an M9. Hopefully it's a step on the way to a full frame sensor to give the M9 some competition.
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Old 07-12-2011   #62
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Pardon me, but cutting thru all the BS, charges and counter-charges, will it do what the RD-1 does?
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Old 07-12-2011   #63
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Pardon me, but cutting thru all the BS, charges and counter-charges, will it do what the RD-1 does?
If the rangefinder is important to you then the answer is no.
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Old 07-12-2011   #64
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If the rangefinder is important to you then the answer is no.
Exactly. Apart from that, I'm pretty sure its image quality will be much better than that of the R-D1
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Old 07-12-2011   #65
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some more pictures here http://www.grblog.jp/
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Old 07-12-2011   #66
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Rayt:

That's what I wanted to know.

Thanks,
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Old 07-12-2011   #67
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some more pictures here http://www.grblog.jp/
Curious.
I don't follow this camera closely, but am I correct in assuming that this camera is about the size of the GRD line up -- maybe slightly bigger, but not much?
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Old 07-12-2011   #68
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What will be interesting about this is how firmware/in-camera corrections are applied to the light passing through a Leica M lens (or compatible). The NEX and m 4/3 cameras treat non- m 4/3 (or non-NEX) lenses "generically" without correction for vignetting, distortion or common aberrations. The Ricoh fixed-lens modules "bake in" corrections for their own lenses. How will this be done with a vast array of possible M-compatible lenses? Drop down menus?

The thing that is so exciting about this sort of development is the outside-the-box thinking going on at Ricoh. And it is close to what many of us wanted 10 years ago: a drop-in digital film canister for our film SLRs. Pat Ricoh on the back for this one.
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Old 07-12-2011   #69
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I had the same thought about pricing...body and m module is not far off from an R-D1. 12 megapixel vs. 6, way better high iso performance (or maybe I should say "way higher"), but no rangefinder. Lots of other differences (like live view which I actually find useful). But it's still an interesting comparison. I started watching for R-D1s on ebay just to see where they were priced. Not sure what I will do. The GXR is growing on me. Great interface and form.
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Old 07-12-2011   #70
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The M8 is selling for $1000-$1200? The M module might cost around $800, plus the body which is under $300. The R-D1 is around $1200 used nowadays as well.
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Old 07-12-2011   #71
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Thanks, Roberto! Please let us know when you find more images online!
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Old 08-03-2011   #72
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Thanks, Roberto! Please let us know when you find more images online!
Perhaps someone who speaks/reads Japanese could look for something in http://www.grblog.jp/ . That's where I found that image. I tried google translate, but I still had trouble navigating the site
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Old 08-05-2011   #73
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Well, it's official now and you can pre order it.
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Old 08-05-2011   #74
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Well, it's official now and you can pre order it.

I just pre-ordered mine!
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Old 08-05-2011   #75
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Funy how nobody mentioned the two special features in the M module: per-lens vignetting and corner color casts profiles set by the user, and three different focus assist modes.

Lens profiles will compensate for the usual problems afflicting wide angle lenses designed for film used with digital sensors.

The focusing assist modes are the best found in any camera: you can zomm in live view at 2x 4x 8x either in full frame or picture-in-picture; and there are two focus peaking functions, one similar to the nex the other showing only the in-focus edges against a solid background. And what's more, magnification and focus peaking can be combined.

As usual, Ricoh cameras are designed by photographers for photographers.
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Old 08-05-2011   #76
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The killer question for me (as owning none m lens) is:
Is the IQ with a m lens better than the IQ of the A12-50mm modul?! And if, than how much.

A12-50mm:




I dont think that it would be an interesting way to buy a 35mm Voigtländer or Zeiss lens to copy the FL of the A12-50mm. Perhaps it will be a plus to use a origin 50mm lens as 75mm lens on the crop.

BTW, for me as a m-lens newbie: Whats the best bang for the buck in used 50mm m-lenses?? Lets say for around $300 to §500?
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