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SLRs - the unRF For those of you who must talk about SLRs, if only to confirm they are not RF.

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Old 01-27-2019   #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry Kirsten View Post
I realised there's more to image quality than optical performance specs and now I no longer anguish about them or even give them a thought.
+1 to this........... I went on a similar 'journey' some years ago, and reached the same conclusion.
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Old 01-27-2019   #122
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Originally Posted by kuuan View Post
typing on my handphone, which i dislike, therefore short: 1.4/50mm lenses made by Pentax:
1. Super Takumar 8 element
( 1.a rare transitional as shown above)
2. Super Takumar 7 element ( and all following are 7 elements)
3.Super-Multi-Coated Takumar ( improved coating, though some Super Taks, that don't say so, already have the new, improved coating later marketed as Super Multi Coating)
4. SMC Takumar (optically same, but rubberized focus ring instead of fully metal)
this marks the end of Takumars, next comes first in Pentax K mount:
Must check my 50/1.4 Super Tak's they have all the symptoms of the 8-elements, but now curious.
Which was the first 50/1.4 to allow for full-aperture metering with the SPF..? was it #4

I only have one Auto Takumar, the 35/2.3 which does have a certain look I don't see with my other Takumars
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Old 01-27-2019   #123
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Originally Posted by rodt16s View Post
Must check my 50/1.4 Super Tak's they have all the symptoms of the 8-elements, but now curious.
Which was the first 50/1.4 to allow for full-aperture metering with the SPF..? was it #4

I only have one Auto Takumar, the 35/2.3 which does have a certain look I don't see with my other Takumars

hm..I don't know. I haven't used them on Spotmatics or any film cameras for that matter but for a few takes and I don't remember, have used a variety of Takumars for a total of 2 or 3 rolls of film.
All of them have a pin, a linkage for the camera to close down aperture, when set to "A", when releasing.


The 2.3/35 is a very special lens, right? Quite big size and good looking too
Auto Takumars, incl. the 8 element Super Takumar f1.4/50 for me render very strong and vivid colors, amazing reds and blues. Later lenses might be rendering more balanced and natural, if you people please allow me to and one can say such things..
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Old 01-27-2019   #124
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Originally Posted by rodt16s View Post
Which was the first 50/1.4 to allow for full-aperture metering with the SPF..? was it #4
This is correct. The 'SMC Takumar' (the final screwmount version) was the first to offer open aperture metering with the SP F, ES and ESII.
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Old 01-27-2019   #125
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quite good, comprehensive info on Takumars: https://takumarguide.weebly.com/takumarology.html
and then there is of course: http://www.klassik-cameras.de/Pentax_Takumar_e.html
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Old 01-28-2019   #126
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Originally Posted by kuuan View Post
The 2.3/35 is a very special lens, right? Quite big size and good looking too
It's a very good copy of the 1950 Angénieux 35mm f/2.5 Retrofocus, the first SLR wide angle lens.

Here's the 35/2.5 Angenieux:


Here's the 35/2.3 Takumar:


But don't tell the collectors, or the price of the Takumar will skyrocket!

Cheers!

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Old 01-28-2019   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kuuan View Post
quite good, comprehensive info on Takumars: https://takumarguide.weebly.com/takumarology.html
and then there is of course: http://www.klassik-cameras.de/Pentax_Takumar_e.html
The authoritative source remains the excellent The Ultimate Asahi Pentax Screw Mount Guide 1952 - 1977 by Gerjan van Oosten, but it has been out of print for quite a long time and is now worth its weight in gold...

Cheers!

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Old 01-28-2019   #128
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Originally Posted by raid View Post
How would the Super Takumar compare with the Pentax-M 50/1.4?
Pentaxians (of which I count myself) will agonise over which 50/f1.4 is best, but the fact is all the 7-element versions are close to being optically identical. On lenses this old I suspect sample variation is going to make more difference than model.

I have the SMC Takumar 50/f1.4, SMC-K 50/f1.4 and SMC-M 50/f1.4 and there's no way I can tell them apart...
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Old 01-28-2019   #129
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Originally Posted by kuuan View Post
hm..I don't know. I haven't used them on Spotmatics or any film cameras for that matter but for a few takes and I don't remember, have used a variety of Takumars for a total of 2 or 3 rolls of film.
All of them have a pin, a linkage for the camera to close down aperture, when set to "A", when releasing.


The 2.3/35 is a very special lens, right? Quite big size and good looking too
Auto Takumars, incl. the 8 element Super Takumar f1.4/50 for me render very strong and vivid colors, amazing reds and blues. Later lenses might be rendering more balanced and natural, if you people please allow me to and one can say such things..
The 35/2.3 is quite special... it's on the left front of the pic below
Not your everyday carry around though.
Agreed for the 8-element, the colours are exceptionally good



Takumars
by Redt16s, on Flickr
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Old 01-28-2019   #130
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Takumar 50mm f/1.4 8-element test by Narsuitus, on Flickr




Takumar 50mm f/1.4 7-element test by Narsuitus, on Flickr
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Old 01-28-2019   #131
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Originally Posted by ChrisPlatt View Post
You may be mistaken. If you have a photo of this lens please post it.

Chris
Thanks for the catch, Chris. Edited to correct.
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Old 01-28-2019   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kuuan View Post
right! generally speaking

however I have a version that got the two signs of an 8 element you mention, I called it "Hybrid,

3 versions of Super Takumar f1.4/50mm ?! by andreas, on Flickr

and verified that it actually is a 7 element version.


The infrared mark is to the left of the f4 mark and there is no A/M on the diaphragm switch, the 2 signs you say make it an 8 element. The shape of the "daimond" and the distance of the infrared focus mark to the f4, though on the other side, concur with those of a 7 element. Actually the red mark is where the mark for the f4 in white should be, looks a bit screwed up Paints look original though.


I assume that this "hybrid" is a transitional piece.
The telling part, if it is a7 or an 8 element, from the outside, is the protruding rear lens of the 8 element:


Hybrid f1.4/50mm Super Takumar? by andreas, on Flickr

and in the inside, of course, it was the 4th lens group which in the case of the 7 element consists of 2 lenses cemented together, in the case of the 8 element it's 3 lenses cemented together which makes it "thicker".
Note also the often mentioned "yellowing" of the 7 element lenses that has not happened with the 8 element version


4th group of 3 Super Takumar f1.4/50mm by andreas, on Flickr
Thanks, that is the best explanation I've seen of this mystery. Others have confused things with serial numbers and manufacturing dates. I have the standard non-hybrid second version. I've always thought that the rear element was a little extended so I was confused but seeing your version mine is exactly like yours.
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Old 01-28-2019   #133
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Originally Posted by NickTrop View Post
Much is made of W. Edwards Demming (and other Americans) contribution to quality assurance and the improvements made in manufacturing in this regard in post-war Japan. (It's an interesting read if unfamiliar...) He is often credited with rise of the Japanese auto sector but I'm sure the focus on quality processes impacted the camera industry.
Deming went to Japan to get some appreciation for his ideas on quality. At that time, US cars consitituted over 80% of all car exorts to the world.
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Old 01-28-2019   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickthetasmaniac View Post
This is correct. The 'SMC Takumar' (the final screwmount version) was the first to offer open aperture metering with the SP F, ES and ESII.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodt16s View Post
Must check my 50/1.4 Super Tak's they have all the symptoms of the 8-elements, but now curious.
Which was the first 50/1.4 to allow for full-aperture metering with the SPF..? was it #4
I'm pretty sure that the previous version (Super-Multi-Coated Takumar) allowed for open aperture metering with the SP-F.
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Old 01-28-2019   #135
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Originally Posted by charjohncarter View Post
Thanks, that is the best explanation I've seen of this mystery. Others have confused things with serial numbers and manufacturing dates. I have the standard non-hybrid second version. I've always thought that the rear element was a little extended so I was confused but seeing your version mine is exactly like yours.

thanks.
narsuitus is right, the two points how to tell apart 8 from 7 element he explains are spot on, generally. But then I ran into this copy that I call “Hybrid” and it didn't check and I investigated. It tells me that transitional pieces exist. Makes me think that the new optical 7 element scheme started being produced at a certain point but that the body must have taken steps of transition to arrive at it's final form with the characteristics of a 7 element. Possibly there even are more than just one kind of “transitional” Super Takumars 1.4/50. It’s the optics what we are talking about and signs on the body not necessarily are conclusive. The protruding rear lens should be the most clear indicator though.
However possibly the difference of the rear lens is in it's housing only and not in it's curvature as I was inclined to think. Haven't measured and compared their curvature and to be certain, which version it is, in the end opened up the lens.

Often it has been said that some copies of the 7 element Super Takumar f1.4/50mm already have the coating of the later Super Multi Coated or S-M-C Takumar. Another type of transition must have occurred. Pentax was constantly working and improving the coating of the lens but only at a certain point they started to put a new name ring on and to market the Super Multi Coating.
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Old 01-28-2019   #136
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Originally Posted by Swift1 View Post
I'm pretty sure that the previous version (Super-Multi-Coated Takumar) allowed for open aperture metering with the SP-F.
This is my understanding, as well. At least it is the case with my three Super Multi-Coated Takumars.

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Old 01-28-2019   #137
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Originally Posted by CMur12 View Post
This is my understanding, as well. At least it is the case with my three Super Multi-Coated Takumars.

- Murray
I think most of the various Super-Multi-Coated Takumar lenses were built to allow for open aperture metering with the SP-F, but not all of them.
I used to have a Super-Multi-Coated Takumar 85/1.9 that didn't have the mechanism for open aperture metering.
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Old 01-28-2019   #138
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Pentax SV, 2.3/35mm Auto-Takumar. Vignetting caused by inappropriate lens hood! Thanks Abbazz for the Angenieux comparison...



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Old 01-28-2019   #139
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Pentax SV, 2.3/35mm Auto-Takumar. Vignetting caused by inappropriate lens hood! Thanks Abbazz for the Angenieux comparison...
Damn it, Doug, I am trying really hard not to buy this lens, and you are making it difficult.

PS: I already have the hood.
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Old 01-28-2019   #140
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Old 01-28-2019   #141
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thank you very much Abbazz for the valuable info on the f2.3/35mm.



Auto Takumar f2.3/35mm
by andreas, on Flickr, taken with Super Takumar f1.9/85mm, Pentax K-x




Untitled
by andreas, on Flickr, Auto Takumar f2.3/35mm, Sony A7 2017



Untitled by andreas, on Flickr, Auto Takumar f2.3/35mm, Sony A7 2016



Fushimiinari
by andreas, on Flickr, Auto Takumar f2.3/25mm, Pentax K-x, Japan 2010
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Old 01-28-2019   #142
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the f2.3 being relatively huge, the f3.5/35mm Auto Takumar is tiny:



Auto Takumar f3.5 35mm
by andreas, on Flickr, taken with Super Takumar f1.9/85mm, Pentax *istDs



Untitled by andreas, on Flickr, Auto Takumar f3.5/35mm, Pentax K-x, Vietnam 2010


in a local warung
by andreas, on Flickr, Auto Takumar f3.5/35mm, Pentax K-x, Bali 2010
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Old 01-28-2019   #143
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kuuan, the colors from the Tak f3.5/35 are amazing. Here are a couple with the Auto-Takumar 55mm f/2.2. Much more subdued, but it was a gray, overcast day.

Bridge lamp by Noel Parsons, on Flickr

Winter cypress 3 by Noel Parsons, on Flickr
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Old 01-28-2019   #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nparsons13 View Post
kuuan, the colors from the Tak f3.5/35 are amazing. Here are a couple with the Auto-Takumar 55mm f/2.2.
that's exactly how I see it too

Auto Takumar f2/55mm, optically said to be identical with your f2.2


Auto Takumar 55mm f2
by andreas, on Flickr, taken with Auto Takumar f2.8/105mm Pentax *istDs

samples on APS-C sensor Pentax dSLR
( sorry for the many flower pics, well, we are talking lens here, excuse for the better photos photographically in this thread getting overcrowded, please keep them coming )


Untitled
by andreas, on Flickr Auto Takumar f2/55mm, Pentax K-x, Bali 2010


passion flower
by andreas, on Flickr, Auto Takumar f2/55mm, Pentax K-x, Bali 2011


Untitled
by andreas, on Flickr, Auto Takumar f2/55mm, Pentax K-x, Bali 2011

a lens aficionado whom I had made aware of the Auto Takumar f2/55, which I esteem very highly, tested it against a hoard of other vintage and more modern 50mm and 55mm lenses.
It came out among the very best in sharpness across the frame!


actually I had done some sharpness lens comparisons of vintage prime normal lenses too, on APS-C: https://www.flickr.com/photos/kuuan/...7632455712332/ and "FF" Sony A7: https://www.flickr.com/photos/kuuans...7670921126335/
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Old 01-28-2019   #145
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from kuuan;
Pentax K-x, Japan 2010

really Nice shot of the 'thousand torii' of Kyoto, Torii, 鳥居, means 'bird's resting place' in Kanji, winds toward the sea, it's hard to have a photo that no tourist's in the shot, this is one of the best one...

ot
i had a Cosmicar 28mm F2.8 lens before (not a tv or survenance lens , and there are many more 35mm Cosmicar lens seemed it was a Pentax made lens, somehow all comicar became takumar??)
thanks for sharing!
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Old 01-28-2019   #146
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How does the Auto Takumar compare to the 35mm f3.5 Super Takumar.
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Old 01-28-2019   #147
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Super-Takumar 28mm f3.5 with Kodachrome. There is a slight warm glow to this one; care of a parachute used as an outdoor canopy. The lens is good for color and sharp:

KodaChrome by John Carter, on Flickr
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Old 01-28-2019   #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taipei-metro View Post
from kuuan;
really Nice shot of the 'thousand torii' of Kyoto, Torii, 鳥居, means 'bird's resting place' in Kanji, winds toward the sea, it's hard to have a photo that no tourist's in the shot, this is one of the best one...
Sure, to get this view, of which countless similar must have been taken, without people in the frame I had to be a bit patient and lucky
The Fushimi Inari shrine at the Fushimi ward near Kyoto, a hillock to climb up with 1000nds of Torii gates as seen is unique and very popular.
Of course I also had my lens to go that time, the S-M-C Takumar f1.4/50mm, which for me is and will remain "the" paradigm of a SLR lens, with me to do some dof play


Untitled
by andreas, on Flickr, S-M-C Takumar f1.4/50mm, Japan 2010
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Old 01-28-2019   #149
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How does the Auto Takumar compare to the 35mm f3.5 Super Takumar.
Super Takumar f3.5/35mm

Super Takumar 35mm 3.5
by andreas, on Flickr, taken with S-M-C Takumar f2.8/105mm



both I consider very good performers with high resolution power, difficult to make out differences. Again I'd say most probable difference is in color rendering. The earlier giving unique colors of early Takumars, the later possibly more balanced, natural colors.
The Super Takumar, for some, may have a slight edge in handling. It's body is typical for all later Super and S-M-C Takumar, for big hands the aperture ring of the slightly smaller Auto Takumar body, in comparison, may be a bit fiddly

this pic showing my lens collection had been taken with a Super Takumar f3.5/35mm ( on "FF" Sony A7, lower, right shelf are M42 lenses, mostly Takumars )


:-)
by andreas, on Flickr, Super Takumar f3.5/35mm, Sony A7, Austria 2017

this one on Pentax K-x ( APS-C sensor )

Kohshoji Temple
by andreas, on Flickr, Super Takumar f3.5/35mm, Uji, Japan 2008
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Old 01-28-2019   #150
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Pentax 6x7, S-M-C Takumar 6x7 105mm f/2.4, Kodak 400TX, developed in LegacyPro L110 at 1:31 for 6 minutes.


2018.09.15 Roll #181-02937-Pano-positive.jpg
by dourbalistar, on Flickr
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Old 01-29-2019   #151
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Here are a couple with the Super-Takumar 35mm f/3.5. I made the hibiscus photo early in the morning soon after the sun had come up. The scenic shot was made later in the morning at f/11 with infinity set at f/11 on the depth of field scale.

Early morning hibiscus by Noel Parsons, on Flickr

Walk by Noel Parsons, on Flickr
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Old 01-29-2019   #152
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Auto-Takumar 85/1.8, 9mm extension tube, Sony A7II.


Small potatoes. by Mike Novak, on Flickr
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Old 01-29-2019   #153
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I nearly clicked on BUY NOW for an 8 element Super Takumar last evening, but sanity told me not to do it. This is an M42 mount lens, so it cannot be used as a 50mm lens on most cameras. I could use it on a M 4/3, but I do not own a SONY FF camera. I have a Pentax-M 50 1.4 in Leica M mount with RF coupling, so I am not sure that getting the 8 element version will be more useful to me.
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Old 01-29-2019   #154
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Quote:
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I nearly clicked on BUY NOW for an 8 element Super Takumar last evening, but sanity told me not to do it. This is an M42 mount lens, so it cannot be used as a 50mm lens on most cameras. I could use it on a M 4/3, but I do not own a SONY FF camera. I have a Pentax-M 50 1.4 in Leica M mount with RF coupling, so I am not sure that getting the 8 element version will be more useful to me.
The Pentax f1. 4/50 imo is a great lens. The 8 element would be a plaything. Do you want that? It's a unique lens, you may enjoy
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Old 01-29-2019   #155
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The Pentax f1. 4/50 imo is a great lens. The 8 element would be a plaything. Do you want that? It's a unique lens, you may enjoy
I would have to use it on a film camera such as a Spotmatic F, which I own.
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Old 01-29-2019   #156
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my last post was meant to say the Pentax M f1. 4/50, you have, is a great lens. Smaller, lighter, smooth operation, better coating.. ( missed that "M", that i get posting via handphone..)
and that this takes nothing away of fascination one may have for the first f1. 4/50
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Old 01-29-2019   #157
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Auto Takumar 55/2.2 Test Shot. by Colton Allen, on Flickr
Pentax *istD
Auto-Takumar 55/2.2
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Old 01-29-2019   #158
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thank you very much Abbazz for the valuable info on the f2.3/35mm.



Untitled
by andreas, on Flickr, Auto Takumar f2.3/35mm, Sony A7 2017



Untitled by andreas, on Flickr, Auto Takumar f2.3/35mm, Sony A7 2016



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by andreas, on Flickr, Auto Takumar f2.3/25mm, Pentax K-x, Japan 2010
You're welcome, kuuan. And thank you for posting these wonderful pictures. Your photographs always have a special meaning to me, as most of the places you picture are very close to my heart.

Cheers!

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Old 01-29-2019   #159
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Pentax SV, 2.3/35mm Auto-Takumar. Vignetting caused by inappropriate lens hood! Thanks Abbazz for the Angenieux comparison...



You're welcome, Doug. Love those 2.3/35 pictures, keep them coming!

Cheers!

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Old 01-29-2019   #160
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58/2 pre-set Takumar

[IMG] by Redt16s, on Flickr[/IMG]

50/1.4 8-elements

[IMG][url=https://flic.kr/p/2epC2Z5]
/url]


by Redt16s, on Flickr[/IMG]

35/2.3 Auto Takumar

[IMG]

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Redt16s, on Flickr[/IMG]
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