Go Back   Rangefinderforum.com > Cameras / Gear / Photography > Leicas and other Leica Mount Cameras > Leica M Lenses and Images

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes

Is my 1968 Summicron 50 black a rare piece?
Old 06-20-2019   #1
alex11235
Registered User
 
alex11235 is offline
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 7
Is my 1968 Summicron 50 black a rare piece?

Hi guys, new to forum and had posted an ad for an M4 and summicron lense earlier when I was informed I may have been asking a tad too low because of the lense. I am a total noob and have simply gone down the rabbit hole here trying to figure out what I have. It was bought new by my Great Uncle in 1968.

Serial 2269270.

https://ibb.co/album/gmwZbF

Any thoughts?

Thank you,

Alex
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-20-2019   #2
splitimageview
Registered User
 
splitimageview is offline
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,979
Yes. a black version 2 is very uncommon. Not sure what it would fetch on the collector market as they don’t come up often...but likely big bucks if it’s factory legit.

Got any more photos of the barrel and rear of the lens?

Is it black paint?
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-20-2019   #3
WJJ3
Registered User
 
WJJ3's Avatar
 
WJJ3 is online now
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Hakuba
Posts: 683
There is some information about that version at the below link if you scroll down. Apparently it’s rare. I was going to comment on your ad that your camera has the original L seal in tact that might make it worth more also. You should keep and shoot your sweet camera.

https://www.overgaard.dk/leica_M4_50...cron-M_20.html
__________________
Happy Shooting!
~Will

Flickr
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-20-2019   #4
splitimageview
Registered User
 
splitimageview is offline
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,979
From "Identifying Leica Lenses" by Sartorius, it's rated "R+" which is between 'rare' and 'very rare.'

  Reply With Quote

Old 06-20-2019   #5
splitimageview
Registered User
 
splitimageview is offline
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,979
Now that I look at the photos again, that looks like an unusual hybrid of some sort between v2 and v3...would help if you had more side-view photos of the barrel...it doesn't look like black paint to me. Maybe it's just a version 3 with an alternative focusing ring...

Sartorious says that version 3 started at approx 2,268,000.

Very curious!

  Reply With Quote

Old 06-20-2019   #6
KEVIN-XU 愛 forever
所謂的攝影,就是人生。
 
KEVIN-XU 愛 forever's Avatar
 
KEVIN-XU 愛 forever is offline
Join Date: May 2011
Location: New Jersey, US
Age: 28
Posts: 535
I think you guys are talking about the second version 50mm summicron in black paint. But this lens certainly not a second version lens. It looks like a very common third version summicron. And its serial number does fall into the third version 50 summciron. But it's a very early production of that version. So the lens barrel still has the previous version's signature. It's definitely not a collectible black paint Rigid though.
__________________
When a man cannot choose he ceases to be a man...

所謂的攝影,就是人生。
---荒木經惟



https://www.instagram.com/kevinxbegin/
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-20-2019   #7
splitimageview
Registered User
 
splitimageview is offline
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,979
That seems to be the correct conclusion.

Great lens nonetheless!
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-20-2019   #8
bucs
Registered User
 
bucs's Avatar
 
bucs is offline
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Manila, PH
Age: 28
Posts: 389
Looks like a V3 Summicron to me not the rare V2.

The rear part looks like a black rigid though. Maybe an early version of the V3
__________________
Nathan
7107
Instagram
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-20-2019   #9
KEVIN-XU 愛 forever
所謂的攝影,就是人生。
 
KEVIN-XU 愛 forever's Avatar
 
KEVIN-XU 愛 forever is offline
Join Date: May 2011
Location: New Jersey, US
Age: 28
Posts: 535
This is still a very interesting lens though because of that feature. But I guess not many people hype for this version. Just like the 35mm f2 summicron 6 elements version...
__________________
When a man cannot choose he ceases to be a man...

所謂的攝影,就是人生。
---荒木經惟



https://www.instagram.com/kevinxbegin/
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-20-2019   #10
alex11235
Registered User
 
alex11235 is offline
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 7
https://ibb.co/album/kMBxVa

Here are more pics.
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-20-2019   #11
bucs
Registered User
 
bucs's Avatar
 
bucs is offline
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Manila, PH
Age: 28
Posts: 389
Uncommon lens. Shares the focus ring of the V2/rigid.

But is missing the much loved infinity lock )
__________________
Nathan
7107
Instagram
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-20-2019   #12
alex11235
Registered User
 
alex11235 is offline
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by WJJ3 View Post
There is some information about that version at the below link if you scroll down. Apparently itís rare. I was going to comment on your ad that your camera has the original L seal in tact that might make it worth more also. You should keep and shoot your sweet camera.

https://www.overgaard.dk/leica_M4_50...cron-M_20.html
The fact that I don't even know what an L seal is nor where to look for it demonstrates that this needs to go to someone who can appreciate it.
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-20-2019   #13
splitimageview
Registered User
 
splitimageview is offline
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,979
L seal doesn’t mean much these days.

https://rangefinderforum.com/forums/...d.php?t=168703
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-20-2019   #14
bucs
Registered User
 
bucs's Avatar
 
bucs is offline
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Manila, PH
Age: 28
Posts: 389
Quote:
Originally Posted by splitimageview View Post
L seal doesnít mean much these days.
High time for a CLA
__________________
Nathan
7107
Instagram
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-20-2019   #15
KEVIN-XU 愛 forever
所謂的攝影,就是人生。
 
KEVIN-XU 愛 forever's Avatar
 
KEVIN-XU 愛 forever is offline
Join Date: May 2011
Location: New Jersey, US
Age: 28
Posts: 535
For a common camera, a CLA receipt is a plus for the sell. L seal only means that the camera might need a service before use if the camera has been sitting somewhere for a long period.
__________________
When a man cannot choose he ceases to be a man...

所謂的攝影,就是人生。
---荒木經惟



https://www.instagram.com/kevinxbegin/
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-20-2019   #16
rodt16s
Registered User
 
rodt16s is offline
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Wiltshire UK
Posts: 641
Leica wiki suggests a very early v3, the first batch being with scalloped knurled barrel
Nice looking lens
__________________
M's, & OM's
Just taking pics of stuff.
flickr
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-20-2019   #17
davidnewtonguitars
Family Snaps
 
davidnewtonguitars's Avatar
 
davidnewtonguitars is offline
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Beaumont, TX
Posts: 1,374
No one here will fault you for pulling the ad, "cough." So since we are talking about your camera, and its condition, the curtains have that dry look to my eyes, so the new owner will get a cla for sure, and at the same time, curtains maybe. For a knowledgeable LeicaMan, getting a low-use camera and lens at a reasonably low price, then have his repair guy do a genuine cla and curtain replacement is an ideal situation, rather than the seller getting a quick n' dirty cla and a good-enough curtain check.
__________________
Leica M2 / 7artisans 35-f2 / Canon 35-f2 ltm
http://davidnewtonguitars.squarespace.com/
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-20-2019   #18
alex11235
Registered User
 
alex11235 is offline
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 7
So what do you knowledgable guys think is a fair asking price?
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-20-2019   #19
drew.saunders
Registered User
 
drew.saunders is offline
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 301
From here: https://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica..._f%3D_5_cm_1:2
You'll see that your s/n falls into the first line:

SN Start SN End Product Year Total
2269251 2270250 Summicron f= 5 cm 1:2 (SKF-black) 1968 1000

SKF is "Scalloped focusing knurl"

There were 2350 "regular" black lenses made that year, so it's the less common version, but not super rare.

No clue about the fair price.
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-20-2019   #20
KEVIN-XU 愛 forever
所謂的攝影,就是人生。
 
KEVIN-XU 愛 forever's Avatar
 
KEVIN-XU 愛 forever is offline
Join Date: May 2011
Location: New Jersey, US
Age: 28
Posts: 535
A version 3 50mm f2 summciron in good condition normally goes for around $800. I don't know if collector willing to pay more for the early batch version 3. I don't see anyone mentioned it before.
__________________
When a man cannot choose he ceases to be a man...

所謂的攝影,就是人生。
---荒木經惟



https://www.instagram.com/kevinxbegin/
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-20-2019   #21
Rayt
Registered User
 
Rayt's Avatar
 
Rayt is offline
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,864
I would say $3k to the right collector.
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-20-2019   #22
Erik van Straten
Registered User
 
Erik van Straten's Avatar
 
Erik van Straten is offline
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 8,447
Yes, the scalloped v3 is a rare and collectible lens, but it is not a black painted lens.



Erik.
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-20-2019   #23
Waus
Registered User
 
Waus's Avatar
 
Waus is offline
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 257
It's a rare intermediate version. There's one for sale here:https://www.schouten-select.nl/index...ing-knurl.html

There was also an intermediate version of the (black anodized)Summilux 50mm V2.
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-20-2019   #24
splitimageview
Registered User
 
splitimageview is offline
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,979
Quote:
Originally Posted by bucs View Post
High time for a CLA
Haha! Yes, I suppose a factory L seal means "allocate about $250 for a CLA and maybe more for curtains"
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-20-2019   #25
splitimageview
Registered User
 
splitimageview is offline
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,979
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waus View Post
It's a rare intermediate version. There's one for sale here:https://www.schouten-select.nl/index...ing-knurl.html
Good luck to them if they can get their asking price!
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-20-2019   #26
KEVIN-XU 愛 forever
所謂的攝影,就是人生。
 
KEVIN-XU 愛 forever's Avatar
 
KEVIN-XU 愛 forever is offline
Join Date: May 2011
Location: New Jersey, US
Age: 28
Posts: 535
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waus View Post
It's a rare intermediate version. There's one for sale here:https://www.schouten-select.nl/index...ing-knurl.html

There was also an intermediate version of the (black anodized)Summilux 50mm V2.
Their asking price for a version 3 lens is outrageous... That is what people paid for extreme rare black paint summilux 50 1.4 or black paint rigid...

Anyway, seems like the early batch V3 is a collectible lens. Congratulation.
__________________
When a man cannot choose he ceases to be a man...

所謂的攝影,就是人生。
---荒木經惟



https://www.instagram.com/kevinxbegin/
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-20-2019   #27
Toreno
Registered User
 
Toreno's Avatar
 
Toreno is offline
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 632
Here for sold out item.

http://www.meteor.com.hk/shop/en/len...gid-black.html

Very good looking lens.
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-20-2019   #28
rfaspen
Registered User
 
rfaspen's Avatar
 
rfaspen is offline
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Corvallis, OR
Posts: 1,681
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toreno View Post
Here for sold out item.

http://www.meteor.com.hk/shop/en/len...gid-black.html

Very good looking lens.

That's still at least 1700 USD. I'm surprised even at that. It is Hong Kong -- prices seem higher there.



I agree its a neat lens. Could be a good (re)introduction to the joy of film photography with an M Leica....
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-20-2019   #29
KEVIN-XU 愛 forever
所謂的攝影,就是人生。
 
KEVIN-XU 愛 forever's Avatar
 
KEVIN-XU 愛 forever is offline
Join Date: May 2011
Location: New Jersey, US
Age: 28
Posts: 535
Quote:
Originally Posted by rfaspen View Post
That's still at least 1700 USD. I'm surprised even at that. It is Hong Kong -- prices seem higher there.



I agree its a neat lens. Could be a good (re)introduction to the joy of film photography with an M Leica....
meteor is a famous shop in Hongkong. His price normally on the higher end side since he is a dealer and has operation cost. But it's safe to say that, this particular lens may worth twice of the normal edition V3 summicron.
__________________
When a man cannot choose he ceases to be a man...

所謂的攝影,就是人生。
---荒木經惟



https://www.instagram.com/kevinxbegin/
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-20-2019   #30
alex11235
Registered User
 
alex11235 is offline
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by rfaspen View Post
That's still at least 1700 USD. I'm surprised even at that. It is Hong Kong -- prices seem higher there.



I agree its a neat lens. Could be a good (re)introduction to the joy of film photography with an M Leica....
I have too many expensive hobbies already, lol. Soon as I figure out what's fair to ask the listing will be back up.
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-20-2019   #31
splitimageview
Registered User
 
splitimageview is offline
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,979
I sell to meteor all the time. Maybe they will want it.
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-20-2019   #32
james.liam
Registered User
 
james.liam is offline
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 199
Very strange.
Has the knurled focusing ring of the Rigid, but the lettering/font of type III. The serial number is in the first batch of the Summicron successor to the Rigid (1968).

Leica is notorious for serial numbers that are out of place. You might consider writing to Leica and ask them. If it is indeed a black Rigid, it may be worth ~$7,000-10,000. I remember reading somewhere that there were prototypes where the optical cell of the Rigid was placed into the body of the v.III. Perhaps the opposite was true too.

The Wiki referenced above states that the knurled ring and Dual Range v.II were still available after the introduction of v.III; not that the v.III came that way. Don't short-sell yourself and first confirm exactly what you have. If it's some strange variant, you might net more if it goes to auction,
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-20-2019   #33
alex11235
Registered User
 
alex11235 is offline
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by james.liam View Post
Very strange.
Has the knurled focusing ring of the Rigid, but the lettering/font of type III. The serial number is in the first batch of the Summicron successor to the Rigid (1968).

Leica is notorious for serial numbers that are out of place. You might consider writing to Leica and ask them. If it is indeed a black Rigid, it may be worth ~$7,000-10,000. I remember reading somewhere that there were prototypes where the optical cell of the Rigid was placed into the body of the v.III. Perhaps the opposite was true too.

The Wiki referenced above states that the knurled ring and Dual Range v.II were still available after the introduction of v.III; not that the v.III came that way. Don't short-sell yourself and first confirm exactly what you have. If it's some strange variant, you might net more if it goes to auction,
I shot them an email at [email protected] with the pictures. Guess I'll wait and see? I appreciate the help here.
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-20-2019   #34
Contarama
Registered User
 
Contarama is offline
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Tulsa
Posts: 1,249
Well how many great uncles do you have that left you some Leica? That being said one of the best camera systems I ever bought and it was a bargain came from a similar situation so kudos to you for giving it up to hopefully be used as it should.
__________________
Art is the ability to make something...even if it is a big mess...
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-20-2019   #35
bucs
Registered User
 
bucs's Avatar
 
bucs is offline
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Manila, PH
Age: 28
Posts: 389
Quote:
Originally Posted by alex11235 View Post
I shot them an email at [email protected] with the pictures. Guess I'll wait and see? I appreciate the help here.

Contact well known Leica dealers like Meteor (online and there a few on instagram as well) and maybe you'll be offered better selling prices. Make sure to point out you have an uncommon lens and there is a chance you'll get a premium over v3 Summicron market prices.

It appears selling here would not be advisable given the level of speculation in this thread lol. For the lens at least.
__________________
Nathan
7107
Instagram
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-20-2019   #36
kiemchacsu
Registered User
 
kiemchacsu is offline
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Hanoi, Vietnam
Age: 38
Posts: 1,021
Quote:
Originally Posted by alex11235 View Post
So what do you knowledgable guys think is a fair asking price?
put it on eBay auction with clear descriptions
the market will tell how much it would go
__________________
Cheers,
Trung Nguyen

RF
F
photo essays: Hanoi | Hoi An | Ha Giang | Fish Market
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-22-2019   #37
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
 
Gabriel M.A.'s Avatar
 
Gabriel M.A. is offline
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Paris, Frons
Posts: 9,992
Definitely a so-called "transitional" v3; I'd stay it's a v2.5

Have it CLA'd, give an exact description in the auction, watch the bidding wars go full-steam. Maybe not right away, have a reserve of about USD $1,200, you should be fine.

Don't ask for less than $1,000 if it's in [very] good condition.
__________________
Big wig wisdom: "Who the hell wants to hear actors talk?" --Harry Warner, of Warner Bros., 1927

Fellow RFF member: I respect your bandwidth by not posting images larger than 800px on the longest side, and by removing image in a quote.
Together we can combat bandwidth waste (and image scrolling).


My Flickr | (one of) My Portfolio
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-22-2019   #38
steveyork
Registered User
 
steveyork is offline
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 697
With early serial numbers of any item, Leica was probably using left over parts. They did that with the MP and the film iso plate. The first batch had the old M6 plates. Anyway, that's my theory.
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-22-2019   #39
Erik van Straten
Registered User
 
Erik van Straten's Avatar
 
Erik van Straten is offline
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 8,447
The six element 1968 Summicron with scalloped focusing ring is made in 1.000 pieces.

Erik.





Leica Wiki:

2269251 2270250 Summicron f= 5 cm 1:2 (SKF-black) 1968 1000
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-26-2019   #40
alex11235
Registered User
 
alex11235 is offline
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 7
From Leica directly:

Hello,



thanks for this interesting inquiry about this historical lens. It seems to me that this lens in question was assemble out of two different lenses, never saw this SUMMICRON-M 2/50 in that conditions. We have to investigate this matter carefully here in our archive, but this will take some time. I have forwarded your mail to our archive, maybe they have closer details about this lens in their records. As soon as I have the correct details I’ll come back to you. May I ask for your patience. Have a nice day
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 02:26.


vBulletin skin developed by: eXtremepixels
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

All content on this site is Copyright Protected and owned by its respective owner. You may link to content on this site but you may not reproduce any of it in whole or part without written consent from its owner.