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CSC : Digital Compact System Cameras - This new category of digital Compact System Cameras with interchangeable lenses was mislabeled for a time as "Mirrorless Cameras" by those forgetting about "Mirrorless" Rangefinder cameras.  Such confusion is easily understandable, since interchangeable rangefinder cameras were only recently introduced in 1932.  hmm.    CSC or Compact System Camera is probably the best category description to date, although I am fond of the old RFF desigation of  CEVIL  indicating Compact Electronic Viewfidner Interchangeable Lens.   This forum is here at RFF because via adapters these cameras offer an inexpensive way to use rangefinder lenses on digital cameras -- in addition of just about every 35mm SLR lens you can think of.  All  offer the photo enthusiast an incredible array of adopted lenses which was not possible before these new digital formats.   This group continues to grow in popularity and new camera models! 

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Initial shots with the Pentax Q10 [Image Heavy]
Old 03-14-2017   #1
kb244
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Initial shots with the Pentax Q10 [Image Heavy]

So did some snaps with the Q10 earlier today while at campus, I received it yesterday but I didn't really do anything photo worthy, mostly going over all the settings getting familiar with the menu/etc.

Also earlier today, I wore both my Pentax MX + Pentax-M 50/1.4 with Kodak P3200 loaded (expired 2004, from a couple bricks of 40 rolls that has some aging, after testing three rolls, I can now get good near-original results shooting at 1600 and developing with Microphen 1:1), and the Pentax Q10 + 01 Prime with the neck strap attached. The Q10's neckstrap just slightly shorter so it sits right on top of the MX's hot shoe. Or what I call "Mama Pentax, Baby Pentax".



Main thing I didn't care for was I noticed when I switched to one of the Smart Filters (via the 1,2,3,4 dial on front), such as Bold Monochrome, even though I had Raw+Jpeg set, it only saved a jpeg copy. I'm used to where my Olympus, even with a heavy art filter enabled, would save both if I set it for both, the raw copy just wouldn't get the filter applied, but it would still be saved so I can edit it later, not the case with the Pentax.

These are in chronological order:

On the ride out, since it was bright, I did a couple snaps with the 07 Shield lens, kind of nifty/funky and what not, but not something I would care to keep on the camera, especially since the fixed focusing distance is around 3 or 4 feet where its sharp-ish. But I can see some situations where it may come in handy for a few fun ideas.





got into campus, up the stairs and saw some shapes I thought might look nice in the "Bold Monochrome" mode I checked out earlier. It's my second day with the Q10, course I gotta play with the preset filters...



and then down to the classroom, and shot where I came in from with the Photo 102 work on the right side (their 'selfie' project), and not even visible on the left side are the advanced digital prints I printed out for the class (for this semester I'm in PO230 Advanced Digital Imaging, and PO126 Film Processing [which is combined with 4x5 view camera]).

A little after the Adv.Img class I headed over to the visual arts office since I needed to go ahead and print off one of the students huge composite image of a geode (course upon opening the 2GB file, I shrieked at all the sensor dust he had, like a friggin sandstorm, repeated over 30 composited frames... the healing brush did not like me, and I did like like him for not cleaning his sensor lol).



Then the film processing class started, did some quick prints, and then when 6:30PM hit all of us in the class walked about 3 blocks over to WMCAT (West Michigan Center for Art and Technology) where they had a art exhibit going on.







Also one of my own prints was in the exhibit, the one on the left, an HDR shot with my Olympus E-M5 ( Can be seen online here : http://kbeezie.deviantart.com/art/Fr...torm-660677323 )



A quick shot of my film professor on the way back to campus.



Another on the way back, passing the Grand Rapids Library on the right hand side.



After that class, I went back to the office and printed off another print, this time one of my own at 42 inches by 46 inches on to some self-adhesive paper (you peel off the back and affix it to the wall), the geode one underneath being on Epson premium luster printed at 44 inches by 88 inches.



When I finished, I went and took a quick cell phone selfie showing the two cameras worn, then locked down the classrooms and darkroom and headed out shortly before 10PM

The shirt has a Big Wheel on it, saying "That's how I roll."

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Old 03-15-2017   #2
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Looks like a nice day! With surprisingly nice images from the Pentax.
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Old 03-15-2017   #3
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Nice pics. Are you going to print any of them?
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Old 03-15-2017   #4
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Those shots from the Q look great. Sensor technology must have improved quite a bit. Images from earlier Qs I've seen looked quite noisy even at low ISOs.

I've been considering a Q because of the short flange focal distance, and I have a pile of D mount cine lenses that need to get used. Hopefully I'll be able to afford one soon.
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Old 03-15-2017   #5
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Nice shots. The Qs are great little cameras, lots of fun. You can adapt almost any lens to them. I have a bunch of C mount lenses I used on mine. Try the Reversal Film setting too.

The Q7 and QS1 have a slightly larger sensor with better IQ too.

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Old 03-15-2017   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwojr View Post
Nice pics. Are you going to print any of them?
From that batch, probably not, usually would be letter size if I do, the full resolution of 12 megapixels cuts it pretty close for the 13x19 stuff I would usually print.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mich rassena View Post
Those shots from the Q look great. Sensor technology must have improved quite a bit. Images from earlier Qs I've seen looked quite noisy even at low ISOs.

I've been considering a Q because of the short flange focal distance, and I have a pile of D mount cine lenses that need to get used. Hopefully I'll be able to afford one soon.
The Q10 seems fine at lower ISO, it starts to chunk up around ISO 400 onward, past 800 is when I would want to start grabbing my E-M5 instead.

The Q10 onward got plenty of high praises for straight out of the camera jpeg, when you shoot raw and jpeg you can see how much in camera processing is done especially for noise reduction and distortion correction (the 01 Prime 8.5mm f/1.9 ~47mm equiv has noticeable barrel distortion in raw, but adobe software has an automatic profile for the 01, 02 and 06 lens in the raw software)

In regards to adapting lenses, there are certainly a lot of adapters, I have the Leica thread mount, Pentax-K (fotodiox, not the expensive pentax branded one with built in leaf shutter) and an Adaptall adapter.

The problem with the adapters primarily is, there's no built in shutter (similar scenario to using one of the toys lens), as a result you can only use the camera's electronic shutter which on paper seems fine, since the shutter range for that is 2 seconds to 1/8,000th, but the scanning time for the whole sensor is about 1/15th of a second, hence rolling shutter issues below a certain shutter speed, also because of that, the maximum flash sync speed for a lens or adapter without a shutter is 1/13th of a second. The lens with a shutter (01, 02, 06, 08) can do 1/2,000th sync with the built in flash, or 1/250th with an external flash.

Price wise, you can find the Q10 and Q7 for $200 or less, my Q10 with a 02 lens and hood was a little over 100 used with less than 500 shutter actuations (which seems silly to say now since the body has no mechanical shutter so must be less than 500 for the 02).

Quote:
Originally Posted by shawn View Post
Nice shots. The Qs are great little cameras, lots of fun. You can adapt almost any lens to them. I have a bunch of C mount lenses I used on mine. Try the Reversal Film setting too.

The Q7 and QS1 have a slightly larger sensor with better IQ too.

Shawn

The Q and Q10 have a 1/2.3" sensor, the Q7 and Q-S1 have a 1/1.7", basically 5.6x crop factor vs 4.5x crop factor. The Q-s1 is just a re-skin of the Q7, so it seems like of the four they made, the Q7 is the best to get if you don't need as high a reach/multiplier as the Q10.
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Old 03-15-2017   #7
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Oh the other more obvious pitfalls I forgot to mention with the smaller sensor on the Qs. The IQ starts to fall apart around f/5.6 due to diffraction of the sensor size, so peak sharpness across the range is typically closer to wide open (~f/2.0-4), since once you go past f/4 you start to see a noticeable degrade of quality starting at the edges.

Since I shot the pics at full manual (or aperture priority), nearly every shot above stayed around f/2.0~3.2. I haven't hit a situation where I really needed to go higher on the aperture side since I haven't done too much outside shooting yet, but if I do I'll just turn on the ND filter where needed (only the metal mount lens support ND filter, I think it's built into the lens, much like the mechanical shutter).

So that might attribute to why many of the samples seemed poor, either increased ISO when using one of the slower lenses (most of the non-metal mounted lenses are f/5.6 ~ f/9), or using a higher aperture in P/Automatic mode. The relative depth of field is so wide anyways that shooting on the wider end of the aperture seems sufficient in most cases, basically the areas out of focus in most shooting distance is just subtly soft which I guess is great for travel-like pics. I already face dof challenges with my micro-4/3rd so I'm already thinking of these things (though my Olympus even with adapted lens, I can do f/11~16 without much harm from diffraction, though f/5.6~8 seems to give me the best pixel result with my Olympus)

So far I really like the Q10, might not use it for any of my more serious work, but its compactness and its ability (as long as I know its limitations) makes it much easier for me to go out with a camera and not feel naked not having a camera on hand.
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Old 03-18-2017   #8
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Got my adaptall to Q adapter today to use with my Tamron SP 90mm f/2.8 1:1 Macro.

Course what kills it for me is that the Q10 will not trigger an external flash when using adapted lens (ie: no electronic contact to tell the camera there's a lens), can use the on-board flash but that's no good for 1:1 Macro work. Simply put there is no way to use the hot-shoe to trigger an external flash when using any lens other than the #01~08 Q lens, regardless of settings (because normally you would have to turn flash off, and disable flash-when-retracted, to use an external flash but that only works for the 01-08 lens).

So left with either continuous lighting or....

Using the on-board flash as an optical trigger (Which is still limited to 1/13th and below when using a non-shuttered lens like 01/02/06/08, but can make it work), basically means can get it going with a tripod set up where the ambient light will be well below -3EV when at 1/10th at whatever aperture/ISO is being used. Just not ast practical for handheld use when mixing ambient light and flash.

Though the onboard flash I noticed, when set to just "on" seems to have a sort of pre-flash (I guess to get a measure of exposure/focus before the actual flash), so initially my external flash was firing a bit too soon, so under "Servo" menu (it's a touch screen flash), I went up to the trigger, and selected learn, and took a picture and then it learned the new flash pattern to be triggered.

Some 'meh' test shots :

1:1 Lifesize (0.96 feet or 0.29 meters), though I have to remember once I hit f/5.6, diffraction really starts to take a toll on the IQ.


1:2 Lifesize (about 1.15 feet or 0.355 meters)


Since I know the flash sync for on-board and the lens is up to 1/2,000th I got to thinking, if the official Pentax Adapter can do up to 1/1,000 because it's a leaf shutter... are the shutters inside the 01/02/06/08 lens leaf shutters too ? (since Leaf shutters sync at all speeds). So I took two shots at 1/2,000 @ f/3.2 , ISO 100 with the 01 Standard Prime, one with the on-board flash on with -2 on the Flash Compensation (lowest I can set its output),



and then one with the same settings, but this time with my Metz 64AF-1 flash bouncing off the ceiling being triggered by the onboard flash.



Seems sure enough the shuttered lens do behave like a leaf shutter without having any black-outs from the higher shutter speed like focal plane shutters do.
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Old 03-19-2017   #9
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Yes, the Pentax Q lenses have leaf shutters in them.

The Q with adapted lenses (not with the Pentax adapter) is limited to 1/13th of a second (for flash) as that is the readout speed of the electronic shutter. You can of course shoot with a faster electronic shutter speed but it takes 1/13th of a second to readout the whole sensor so there is the possibility of rolling shutter motion artifacts.

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Old 03-20-2017   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kb244 View Post
The problem with the adapters primarily is, there's no built in shutter (similar scenario to using one of the toys lens), as a result you can only use the camera's electronic shutter which on paper seems fine, since the shutter range for that is 2 seconds to 1/8,000th, but the scanning time for the whole sensor is about 1/15th of a second, hence rolling shutter issues below a certain shutter speed, also because of that, the maximum flash sync speed for a lens or adapter without a shutter is 1/13th of a second. The lens with a shutter (01, 02, 06, 08) can do 1/2,000th sync with the built in flash, or 1/250th with an external flash.

Price wise, you can find the Q10 and Q7 for $200 or less, my Q10 with a 02 lens and hood was a little over 100 used with less than 500 shutter actuations (which seems silly to say now since the body has no mechanical shutter so must be less than 500 for the 02).

The Q and Q10 have a 1/2.3" sensor, the Q7 and Q-S1 have a 1/1.7", basically 5.6x crop factor vs 4.5x crop factor. The Q-s1 is just a re-skin of the Q7, so it seems like of the four they made, the Q7 is the best to get if you don't need as high a reach/multiplier as the Q10.
That's some disappointing information about the Q series. I didn't realize the shutter took so long to read out and is electronic only. I wonder how that compares with my Pen E-PM1.

I think I may wait for a better successor to the Q to come along. Maybe I'll just buy the 3D printed D mount adapter and try that on micro 4/3. I can't imagine losing much image quality by going that route.
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Old 03-20-2017   #11
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I have been using my 'Q' for several years, and have found it a very satisfying camera. My main addition has been a Voigtlander Kontur finder, as I use only the ~50 lens.I love contact cameras (I used a Minox for several years), and so the size of the 'Q' makes it for me. Some sample pics follow. Thanks for starting this thread.











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Old 03-20-2017   #12
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Did a couple HDRs earlier tonight, initially was just going to have the E-M5 shooting but since the Q10 was already in my front coat pocket and I had a second quick release plate figured why not try. (The octogonal quick release plate for my manfrotto seems bigger than the Q10 lol). The E-M5 had a Pentax-M 28mm f/3.5 attached (56mm equiv), and the Q10 had a 01 Standard prime attached (47mm equiv).

An HDR merge from 6 DNG Raw frames (1 second to 30 second) at ISO 100 and f/2.8 aperture using the 01 Standard Prime.



The camera's own HDR "mode" attempt, I noticed it goes fully automatic, as a result ISO 3200 was selected automatically.



An in-camera edit off of one of the raw captured frames used in the first HDR (picked the 8 second one which was middle ground for exposure)



In comparison, the HDR of the same scene (but from a little further down the bridge) off the E-M5 and Pentax-M 28/3.5



Another HDR off the Q10 from 7 DNG Raw frames from 0.5 to 30 seconds Also f/2.8 and ISO 100.



I noticed with the Q10 there's no dark-frame subtraction wait time after a longer exposure capture like I have had with other cameras (ie: if you shoot 4 seconds, you see the light blinking for 4 additional seconds doing a dark frame to subtract long exposure noise off the image, which can be a pain if you need it done in camera, since a 30 second exposure, takes 60 seconds before you can shoot another, this appears not to be the case with the Q10, and since I don't see the option in the menu, it probably doesn't do that).

At the same scene above I took a single frame shot off the E-M5 with the Pentax-M 28/3.5 lens tilted.



Also earlier today I been busy all day shooting various artwork/sculptures/paintings/etc that were selected to go in Display Magazine (apparently I been their go-to for officially paid art photographer as of last year), so while I'm using the department's Canon 6D with either the Canon 24-70/4L or the 100/2.8L for the job, I decided I'd put the remote trigger onto the Q10 and see how it does with the strobes and the 01 standard prime :









;P and a quick shot of my Q10 with the 6D and the Canon 100/2.8L

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Old 04-01-2017   #13
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Figured my Olympus E-M5 was feeling neglected since I been carrying around the Pentax Q10 more so since it wasn't raining last night I took it out.
Which can be seen on this album here : 03/31/2017 Walk Most of them are stitchings or HDR, mostly with the 1951 Canon Serenar 35mm f/2.8 Leica Thread Mount lens, with a couple from the Jupiter-11 135mm f/4 LTM, and on the wider end the Olympus 12mm f/2.0, with the very last one being the Olympus 9mm f/8.

While I was out shooting with the E-M5 I kept the Pentax Q10 in my coat pocket with a manfrotto (RC0... it's bigger than the camera) quick release plate already attached, and the 06 Telephoto Zoom attached to it. Since I had both of the cameras QR mounted, I would swap after I did some shots with the Olympus.

@ 20.4mm (113mm equiv) and f/3.2


@ 19.3mm (107mm equiv) and f/3.2
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