dave lackey
Mentor
Thanks to everyone who answered my previous thread about how to get started in large format. I can see this is going to be an excellent adventure...with your help, of course!
Just for grins, I have been checking out the beautiful Wista wood field cameras. Kind of expensive, though. But, I was wanting to price out a full setup but not sure what all needs to be included.
Once, I get a feel for the desirable kit, I can compare it with cheaper alternatives. For instance, Adorama has the Tachihara 4x5 for $699 and the 8x10 for $1399...but what else do I need to purchase?
Oh, 4x5 or 8x10...which is the better?
Wow, so much to consider...thanks again for any and all advice!
Just for grins, I have been checking out the beautiful Wista wood field cameras. Kind of expensive, though. But, I was wanting to price out a full setup but not sure what all needs to be included.
Once, I get a feel for the desirable kit, I can compare it with cheaper alternatives. For instance, Adorama has the Tachihara 4x5 for $699 and the 8x10 for $1399...but what else do I need to purchase?
Oh, 4x5 or 8x10...which is the better?
Wow, so much to consider...thanks again for any and all advice!
Last edited:
T
Todd.Hanz
Guest
dave lackey said:...but what else do I need to purchase?
Oh, 4x5 or 8x10...which is the better?
A dark cloth for focusing, a good loupe. You may also like a Fresnel lens if yours doesn't already have one, they help in focusing. If you are going to develop your own sheet film then you'll need that set up as well. A good tripod, etc. ...the camera is just the beginning
Todd
jan normandale
Film is the other way
A good place to start reading so afterwards you can ask the "next level" questions in this thread.
http://www.largeformatphotography.info/
http://www.largeformatphotography.info/
venchka
Mentor
Todd is right
Todd is right
After stumbling into a sweet deal on a Speed Graphic with 2 lenses and 5 holders I spent more than the camera cost on:
1 Grafmatic "45" holder. Fabulous film holder. Don't leave home without it.
2 Jobo tanks. The 3010 is the best for up to 10 sheets of 4x5.
Tripod and head. Don't ask what these cost. On the other hand, worth every penny for piece of mind. Berlebach makes great tripods for large format. Way less expensive than a Gitzo. A good 3-way head will do everything you need for large format.
Did anyone mention changing bag or changing tent? Great to have in the field and at home.
What's better? 4x5 or 8x10? It depends. 4x5 is more portable and easier and less expensive to set up your own darkroom for enlarging. 8x10 requires a pretty big commitment in gear toting. 8x10 yields amazing contact prints. Whatever you do, never ever look through an 8x10 camera's ground glass unless you are buying it. You will be spoiled forever.
There are good deals on field cameras and lenses every week at the Large Format Forum.
Todd is right
Todd.Hanz said:A dark cloth for focusing, a good loupe. You may also like a Fresnel lens if yours doesn't already have one, they help in focusing. If you are going to develop your own sheet film then you'll need that set up as well. A good tripod, etc. ...the camera is just the beginning
Todd
After stumbling into a sweet deal on a Speed Graphic with 2 lenses and 5 holders I spent more than the camera cost on:
1 Grafmatic "45" holder. Fabulous film holder. Don't leave home without it.
2 Jobo tanks. The 3010 is the best for up to 10 sheets of 4x5.
Tripod and head. Don't ask what these cost. On the other hand, worth every penny for piece of mind. Berlebach makes great tripods for large format. Way less expensive than a Gitzo. A good 3-way head will do everything you need for large format.
Did anyone mention changing bag or changing tent? Great to have in the field and at home.
What's better? 4x5 or 8x10? It depends. 4x5 is more portable and easier and less expensive to set up your own darkroom for enlarging. 8x10 requires a pretty big commitment in gear toting. 8x10 yields amazing contact prints. Whatever you do, never ever look through an 8x10 camera's ground glass unless you are buying it. You will be spoiled forever.
There are good deals on field cameras and lenses every week at the Large Format Forum.
john neal
fallor ergo sum
Dave,
I have a cherry wood Wista that I would consider selling - complete with a Schneider lens. PM me and I'll let you have the details
I have a cherry wood Wista that I would consider selling - complete with a Schneider lens. PM me and I'll let you have the details
venchka
Mentor
Sigh
Sigh
Drool. Good luck Y'all!
Sigh
john neal said:
Drool. Good luck Y'all!
venchka
Mentor
One more caution
One more caution
Never never ever ever handle an Ebony, Canham, Ritter, Linof or Phillips field camera. You be forever spoiled.
Richard Ritter is working on a new 4x5, 5x7 and 8x10 convertible. The best of all possible worlds maybe.
One more caution
Never never ever ever handle an Ebony, Canham, Ritter, Linof or Phillips field camera. You be forever spoiled.
Richard Ritter is working on a new 4x5, 5x7 and 8x10 convertible. The best of all possible worlds maybe.
RF-Addict
Well-known
Dave,
I would start out with 4x5 - it is a managable size and allows for reasonable weight for hiking. Once you get into 8x10 everything is supersized - the film holders alone will need a seperate bag!
You might also want to look into the Shen Hao cameras. They are well made, have lots of movements and are an incredible value. I own a Canham 4x5 and a Shen Hao 4x5 and I like both of them.
Here is what you'll need to get started:
- Solid, sturdy tripod
- Solid Tripod head (ball or pan head is your call - I like the ball heads, but that's just me)
- Dark Cloth (one side black, the other side white, or you'll melt away in summer)
- Loupe (min 4x, better 6x)
- Film holders (regular two-sided, or a Grafmatic with 6 shot capability)
- Changing bag or dark room to load and unload the holders
- Trays or Drums to develop the film
- Cable release
- External Lightmeter (if you have a digicam, use the histogram, it's a great tool)
- Bubble level to make sure that camera is horizontally aligned
- Notepad to write down the settings for each picture - will help in the learning process
I think that should pretty much cover it - oh, yeah you'll need film of course
I would start out with 4x5 - it is a managable size and allows for reasonable weight for hiking. Once you get into 8x10 everything is supersized - the film holders alone will need a seperate bag!
You might also want to look into the Shen Hao cameras. They are well made, have lots of movements and are an incredible value. I own a Canham 4x5 and a Shen Hao 4x5 and I like both of them.
Here is what you'll need to get started:
- Solid, sturdy tripod
- Solid Tripod head (ball or pan head is your call - I like the ball heads, but that's just me)
- Dark Cloth (one side black, the other side white, or you'll melt away in summer)
- Loupe (min 4x, better 6x)
- Film holders (regular two-sided, or a Grafmatic with 6 shot capability)
- Changing bag or dark room to load and unload the holders
- Trays or Drums to develop the film
- Cable release
- External Lightmeter (if you have a digicam, use the histogram, it's a great tool)
- Bubble level to make sure that camera is horizontally aligned
- Notepad to write down the settings for each picture - will help in the learning process
I think that should pretty much cover it - oh, yeah you'll need film of course
venchka
Mentor
Something to to tote all in.
I have an LL Bean book bag that belonged to my daughter. It's going on 20 years old and working fine. It will hold a Speed graphic, 5 holders + Grafmatic, spare lens (in a plastic Glad leftover container), meters, levels, cable release, darkcloth, etc.
I also have an Osprey panel loading backpack with padded hip belt for longer excursions. It holds all of the 4x5 stuff AND all of the Leica RF stuff, tripod, etc., etc. with room to spare.
I have an LL Bean book bag that belonged to my daughter. It's going on 20 years old and working fine. It will hold a Speed graphic, 5 holders + Grafmatic, spare lens (in a plastic Glad leftover container), meters, levels, cable release, darkcloth, etc.
I also have an Osprey panel loading backpack with padded hip belt for longer excursions. It holds all of the 4x5 stuff AND all of the Leica RF stuff, tripod, etc., etc. with room to spare.
keithwms
Established
I'll just say one thing about wooden field cameras- if you do get one, get a really good one or else you're better off lugging a view camera. The problem is rigidity and whether the camera can firmly hold a particular configuration. I have a spectacularly feather-light old 5x7 wooden field camera that is great to transport but quite a pain to use because it isn't rigid enough and it picks up every vibration or breeze. Because of that I just bought an old 5x7 rittreck and that is more my preference: heavy as hell, but very rigid and able to firmly support any old lens, even the big old process lenses.
It's worthwhile to consider what lenses you will be using before you settle on a body. I like to use longish lenses like a Nikkor 360mm tele. That's not a huge lens, and it is a tele design, but still it does require a fair amount of bellows draw, it almost maxes out a crown graphic at a subject distance of a few meters. And its weight is really too much for most wooden field cameras. So my suggestion is to think about lenses first, ask yourself what kind of close focusing you'd like to do, and then find the right body to support those.
I second the suggested use of a digital as a light meter, they are great for metering for slide film in particular. Indeed the histo is very helpful. I recently did that in tricky desert light and it worked very well.
As for format size, well, one big reason why a lot of people shoot LF is so that that they can make contact prints. 4x5 is a bit small for that but still acceptable. Whatever works for you! Perhaps one thing to keep in mind is that you can put a 6x12cm rollfilm back on a 4x5, and a 6x17cm back on a 5x7. Two very nifty options.
It's worthwhile to consider what lenses you will be using before you settle on a body. I like to use longish lenses like a Nikkor 360mm tele. That's not a huge lens, and it is a tele design, but still it does require a fair amount of bellows draw, it almost maxes out a crown graphic at a subject distance of a few meters. And its weight is really too much for most wooden field cameras. So my suggestion is to think about lenses first, ask yourself what kind of close focusing you'd like to do, and then find the right body to support those.
I second the suggested use of a digital as a light meter, they are great for metering for slide film in particular. Indeed the histo is very helpful. I recently did that in tricky desert light and it worked very well.
As for format size, well, one big reason why a lot of people shoot LF is so that that they can make contact prints. 4x5 is a bit small for that but still acceptable. Whatever works for you! Perhaps one thing to keep in mind is that you can put a 6x12cm rollfilm back on a 4x5, and a 6x17cm back on a 5x7. Two very nifty options.
Trius
Waiting on Maitani
If you go 4x5 in a field camera format, I would recommend a Toyo. I have a 45A, and it is rugged as hell, only weighs about 6 lbs, and is rigid and stable. Field cameras (and most wooden 4x5s are field cameras) have fewer movements than monorail designs, but unless you need extreme corrections, you won't need the full range of movements.
Consider carefully what focal length for your first lens. My "normal" lens is a 150 which, while considered about standard for 4x5, I find it a bit wide. This is curious because in 35mm I prefer wider than 50 as my standard. If I had it to do over again, I would probably go with a 180 or 210. As it stands now, I will get a 240 if I add to my lens lineup.
But whatever you get, stick with one lens for a long time and really learn how to shoot with that lens and how to shoot 4x5.
The only other change I might make is to use QuickLoad or ReadyLoad film to cut down on weight. But I really don't shoot a lot of sheets for any given outing, so as long as I'm not travelling far from the vehicle, lugging holders isn't that big a deal.
Consider carefully what focal length for your first lens. My "normal" lens is a 150 which, while considered about standard for 4x5, I find it a bit wide. This is curious because in 35mm I prefer wider than 50 as my standard. If I had it to do over again, I would probably go with a 180 or 210. As it stands now, I will get a 240 if I add to my lens lineup.
But whatever you get, stick with one lens for a long time and really learn how to shoot with that lens and how to shoot 4x5.
The only other change I might make is to use QuickLoad or ReadyLoad film to cut down on weight. But I really don't shoot a lot of sheets for any given outing, so as long as I'm not travelling far from the vehicle, lugging holders isn't that big a deal.
jan normandale
Film is the other way
venchka said:
Wayne, I've a visual of you hauling all that equipment you mentioned. It's sort of a "Teenage Ninja Turtle goes photographic" .. backpacks do that I guess. ;D
cheers Jan
venchka
Mentor
Jan,
Grinning. Those are my 2 small packs. I have a Dana Designs Terraplane that holds more stuff than I can carry.
The Osprey pack is pretty amazing. I bought it years ago without regard to carrying camera gear. Recently I dug it out and was amazed to find out that I can get 2 M5s and several lenses in the outside back pockets. That leaves the entire main compartment free for larger items. All 3 of my packs are way better than any dedicated camera backpack I've ever run across.
Photobackpacker makes great gear too.
http://www.photobackpacker.com/home.asp
Grinning. Those are my 2 small packs. I have a Dana Designs Terraplane that holds more stuff than I can carry.
The Osprey pack is pretty amazing. I bought it years ago without regard to carrying camera gear. Recently I dug it out and was amazed to find out that I can get 2 M5s and several lenses in the outside back pockets. That leaves the entire main compartment free for larger items. All 3 of my packs are way better than any dedicated camera backpack I've ever run across.
Photobackpacker makes great gear too.
http://www.photobackpacker.com/home.asp
venchka
Mentor
Here's a deal
Here's a deal
Over at the Large Format Forum. Complete 5x7-4x5-Roll film system. 2 lenses & 1 is convertable, so 3 focal lengths.
http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?p=295455#post295455
Here's a deal
Over at the Large Format Forum. Complete 5x7-4x5-Roll film system. 2 lenses & 1 is convertable, so 3 focal lengths.
http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?p=295455#post295455
Luddite Frank
Well-known
I can definitely say "don't skimp on a tripod"; the beefier the better. Get the kind with a hook that hangs from the center standard, and acquire a sandbag or similar weight to anchor your rig. (Esepcially if you get a light-weight field camera... they present a fairly large profile, and a stray gust of wind could blow the whole works over while you're trying to take a meter reading or you're busy writing down notes in your notebook ! )
I (foolishly) tried using a medium weight Kalimar tripod under my heavy old Calumet mono-rail 4x5 on a blustery November day, and I could feel the camera vibrating from the wind whistling through the framework.
I don't know what your cash-flow situation is like, but I think I would suggest sticking with 4 x 5 for starters; 8x10 is great, but is also kind of like playing with a real dump truck instead of a Tonka - everything gets bigger, heavier, and more expensive. (Probably not a very fair comparison, but the best I can muster right now...)
The cable-release ( long one), focusing Loupe, and Dark-cloth are absolute must -haves !
a Depth -of -field chart to carry with you is another good idea.
Meters: if you have a spot-meter, they are useful with LF.
LF
I (foolishly) tried using a medium weight Kalimar tripod under my heavy old Calumet mono-rail 4x5 on a blustery November day, and I could feel the camera vibrating from the wind whistling through the framework.
I don't know what your cash-flow situation is like, but I think I would suggest sticking with 4 x 5 for starters; 8x10 is great, but is also kind of like playing with a real dump truck instead of a Tonka - everything gets bigger, heavier, and more expensive. (Probably not a very fair comparison, but the best I can muster right now...)
The cable-release ( long one), focusing Loupe, and Dark-cloth are absolute must -haves !
a Depth -of -field chart to carry with you is another good idea.
Meters: if you have a spot-meter, they are useful with LF.
LF