kshapero
South Florida Man
What are the main differences between the Leica M6 and MP?
Joop van Heijgen
Established
kshapero said:
The price!
sepiareverb
genius and moron
Price yes. MP has Brass top plate, which some prefer, and comes in Black paint rather than Black Chrome, unless you special order. Rewind crank is different, MP has the older style knurled knob. No red dot on the MP either, and cladding is different, more even grained and 'grippier'.
kshapero
South Florida Man
sepiareverb said:
Ok but those sound to me like MINOR differences. Any main ones?
nobbylon
Mentor
www.cameraquest.com/LeicaMP.htm
this link should help. I've decided to get one after much thought but only if it's the right price. I really can't see that the price difference between M6's and s/h user Mp's is justified apart from the fact that the camera will be newer. Some on here might find my ideas a bit daft but I really like plain jane stuff and the writing and red dots have always put me off. I never liked the taping up idea although I have done it before when travelling. Then along comes the MP, too expensive for me new but becoming affordable (ish) now s/h. It's got a meter which I like to have, and wears well when it's used. The only thing I wish is that they wouldn't write leica in big white writing on the top, however when I do get one I will just paint it in black! I have found that if my camera's are too good, condition wise, I never use them, always worried that I'm decreasing the value, so I've been going through and selling up everything I don't or wont use. Expensive ornaments I don't need anymore, just a Leica with a meter, brass bits, no dot and no writing. The only others I'm keeping are my black om1n and my user M6ttl
this link should help. I've decided to get one after much thought but only if it's the right price. I really can't see that the price difference between M6's and s/h user Mp's is justified apart from the fact that the camera will be newer. Some on here might find my ideas a bit daft but I really like plain jane stuff and the writing and red dots have always put me off. I never liked the taping up idea although I have done it before when travelling. Then along comes the MP, too expensive for me new but becoming affordable (ish) now s/h. It's got a meter which I like to have, and wears well when it's used. The only thing I wish is that they wouldn't write leica in big white writing on the top, however when I do get one I will just paint it in black! I have found that if my camera's are too good, condition wise, I never use them, always worried that I'm decreasing the value, so I've been going through and selling up everything I don't or wont use. Expensive ornaments I don't need anymore, just a Leica with a meter, brass bits, no dot and no writing. The only others I'm keeping are my black om1n and my user M6ttl
Bill Blackwell
Leica M Shooter
The differences between an M6 (classic) and a new MP are mostly aesthetic:
1. The MP has a brass top; the M6 is zinc alloy;
2. The MP has the "Leica" script engraving; the M6 has no engraving (early M6 camera tops from Wetzlar are engraved "ERNST LEITZ WETZLAR GMBH");
3. The MP has the classic M3/2 RW mechanism with vintage style knobs; the M6 has the M4 style with the slanted crank with M4/5/7 style knobs;
4. The MP has the RF condenser lens (taken out in the M4-2 run); the M6 does not (a $165 repair through DAG).
5. Different body coverings (neither are extraordinary).
6. The black MP cameras are painted (and the paint is designed to rub off); the black M6 is anodized black chrome.
7. The MP has more modern meter circuitry and the meter may be a stop more sensitive in low lighting conditions.
8. The MP is fitted with a separate eyepiece with a plastic cover installed. Every M camera prior has the eyepiece molded into the body with a diopter that screwed in. The new eyepiece is now sealed at the factory, but no one should doubt it is an inferior design.
9. Both have the same shutter mechanism and the same RF (with the condenser lens added in the MP).
My recommendation: Buy a nice M6 classic; send it in for a CLA and have the RF finder upgrade installed at the same time. At the point you get it back you'll have a great camera to use and over $2,000 left in your pocket when compared to a new MP.
1. The MP has a brass top; the M6 is zinc alloy;
2. The MP has the "Leica" script engraving; the M6 has no engraving (early M6 camera tops from Wetzlar are engraved "ERNST LEITZ WETZLAR GMBH");
3. The MP has the classic M3/2 RW mechanism with vintage style knobs; the M6 has the M4 style with the slanted crank with M4/5/7 style knobs;
4. The MP has the RF condenser lens (taken out in the M4-2 run); the M6 does not (a $165 repair through DAG).
5. Different body coverings (neither are extraordinary).
6. The black MP cameras are painted (and the paint is designed to rub off); the black M6 is anodized black chrome.
7. The MP has more modern meter circuitry and the meter may be a stop more sensitive in low lighting conditions.
8. The MP is fitted with a separate eyepiece with a plastic cover installed. Every M camera prior has the eyepiece molded into the body with a diopter that screwed in. The new eyepiece is now sealed at the factory, but no one should doubt it is an inferior design.
9. Both have the same shutter mechanism and the same RF (with the condenser lens added in the MP).
My recommendation: Buy a nice M6 classic; send it in for a CLA and have the RF finder upgrade installed at the same time. At the point you get it back you'll have a great camera to use and over $2,000 left in your pocket when compared to a new MP.
telenous
Well-known
kshapero said:
The M6 is at best a nine-ten year old camera or older, the MP is at worst a four-five year old camera or newer.
I believe that alone justifies the price difference between a sceond-hand M6 and a second-hand MP.
Pablito
coco frío
telenous said:
Maybe if you have the money. Otherwise I can't see how an M6 with updated meter circuit board and finder, and a CLA is any worse than an MP. These cameras are really durable. And for some the angled rewind and the articulated film advance lever of the M6 may actually be advantages.
dreamsandart
Well-known
Other differences are the ISO/ASA film speed dial design (early MPs had the M6 style dual read out too), the M6 style harder to move unintentionally, better?, some think so. And there are some wind-on gears made of brass instead of steel in the MP that are suppose to make things smooth out. As for the meter, the center readout dot and 'off' setting on the shutter dial compared to the earlier M6 (non-ttl). The meter is now all digital and maybe more reliable. And I've read the shutter has some minor improvements. As for 'looks', don't forget those horrible (opinion) plastic strap protection guards on the M6 upper body ends ;-)
Doesn't the MP have improved rangefinder glass coatings we heard about when the M7 came out?
My feelings are that the M6 can be a great deal for a modern Leica with a built in meter. They can be 20+ years old too, and the meter in these early cameras can be a weak point. Add a condenser lens to the rangefinder with a good CLA, hope the plastic film counter on later ones doesn't develop a problem, and the top zinc cover doesn't start to bubble, and they are just fine.
I bought an MP last week because I wanted a 'new' Leica, my others are 35 years to 70 years old. The MP seems to be the end product of a line with 'improvements'.
Doesn't the MP have improved rangefinder glass coatings we heard about when the M7 came out?
My feelings are that the M6 can be a great deal for a modern Leica with a built in meter. They can be 20+ years old too, and the meter in these early cameras can be a weak point. Add a condenser lens to the rangefinder with a good CLA, hope the plastic film counter on later ones doesn't develop a problem, and the top zinc cover doesn't start to bubble, and they are just fine.
I bought an MP last week because I wanted a 'new' Leica, my others are 35 years to 70 years old. The MP seems to be the end product of a line with 'improvements'.
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telenous
Well-known
Pablito said:
It isn't worse than an MP. Of course once you have CLA'd and upgraded the older of the two cameras there will not be much or any price difference between them (BTW I am thinking UK prices). What I was saying before was more to do with the simple observation that newer second-hand cameras cost more than older ones, mostly, I think, because a costly (and probably inconvenient) service/repair is hoped to be further away in time for them.
That's not my preference, as I like the M2 styling best, but I am sure you 're right about this.
thomasw_
Well-known
The big difference is the VF for me. If the M6 doesn't have the upgraded 'mp-like' VF, then the MP's is much more flare resistant and somewhat brighter. Consider this when you are pricing the cameras Akiva. If you can get a really good deal on a M6, it may be worth adding in the cost of the finder upgrade and CLA. Conversely, a MP will not likely need a CLA.
aizan
Mentor
one thing i noticed is that the viewfinder in the m6 has a warm color cast. it's neutral in the mp and m7.
Tom A
RFF Sponsor
As I have both Mp's and M6's, the latter going back to 1984 and a couple of later ones (TTL's) I think I can clarify some points here.
The MP is most likely the Leica that resembles a M2/M3 in mechanical functions with very smooth advance and release. From that standpoint it is an outstanding camera. you have the choice of viewfinder magnification, the 0,58 if you are a 35mm user and the 0.85 for 50 and longer.
The M6 TTL did give us some alternatives,0.85/0.58, but it has a "reverse" shutter speed dial. Makes it difficult to work with a M2/MP and the TTL's at the some times. They tend to take longer to "wear in" for smoothness in the release and advance. Only problem I ever had with my TTL's was battery drain. One had the chip replaced under warranty and on another I fixed it myself (sealed off the probe at the bottom of the battery well) and the third one (a Millenium one) keeps plugging along without any problem.
The "original" M6 has one feature that I like. The two arrows >< are less intrusive in the finder than the >o< system of the MP/TTL. I did have a couple of the 0.85 M6's, but traded them off for a MP 0.58 black paint in 2004. Later I had both the Millenium's converted to 0.58 finders and kept my 0,85 LHSA TTL for 50/75/90 work.
The M6's were not as smooth as the MP's initially, but after 25-20 years of use they are more than adequate. This cameras also served as testbed's for Rapidwinders for at least a decade each. One was serviced some years ago and the other one is now in the hands of a friend who is a heavy user and the only problem has beem his penchant for dropping it. The top plate looks a bit like it has been in a demolition derby. but it still works fine.
I would go for a M6 now and start building up some lenses. Later you can get either another M6 or a MP. Consider that you can get 2 M6's for what a used MP costs - it is worth considering.
The MP is most likely the Leica that resembles a M2/M3 in mechanical functions with very smooth advance and release. From that standpoint it is an outstanding camera. you have the choice of viewfinder magnification, the 0,58 if you are a 35mm user and the 0.85 for 50 and longer.
The M6 TTL did give us some alternatives,0.85/0.58, but it has a "reverse" shutter speed dial. Makes it difficult to work with a M2/MP and the TTL's at the some times. They tend to take longer to "wear in" for smoothness in the release and advance. Only problem I ever had with my TTL's was battery drain. One had the chip replaced under warranty and on another I fixed it myself (sealed off the probe at the bottom of the battery well) and the third one (a Millenium one) keeps plugging along without any problem.
The "original" M6 has one feature that I like. The two arrows >< are less intrusive in the finder than the >o< system of the MP/TTL. I did have a couple of the 0.85 M6's, but traded them off for a MP 0.58 black paint in 2004. Later I had both the Millenium's converted to 0.58 finders and kept my 0,85 LHSA TTL for 50/75/90 work.
The M6's were not as smooth as the MP's initially, but after 25-20 years of use they are more than adequate. This cameras also served as testbed's for Rapidwinders for at least a decade each. One was serviced some years ago and the other one is now in the hands of a friend who is a heavy user and the only problem has beem his penchant for dropping it. The top plate looks a bit like it has been in a demolition derby. but it still works fine.
I would go for a M6 now and start building up some lenses. Later you can get either another M6 or a MP. Consider that you can get 2 M6's for what a used MP costs - it is worth considering.
mfogiel
Mentor
kshapero,
After the ZI looking into a Leica VF is like a looking into a peephole, take this into account as you wear glasses.
After the ZI looking into a Leica VF is like a looking into a peephole, take this into account as you wear glasses.
tmfabian
I met a man once...
the m6 has a nicer ISO dial in ma opinion.
edit:typing on a phone is hard. Many spelling errors were made
edit:typing on a phone is hard. Many spelling errors were made
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kshapero
South Florida Man
Thanks all.
kipkeston
Well-known
aizan said:
I wondered about this. I too have noticed my m6 classic has a warmer color cast and was wondering if there was something wrong with it. I guess it's normal?
Next spring I'm doing a VF upgrade, m3 winder and a CLA. That's as close as I'll ever get to an MP =)
Vincenzo Maielli
Well-known
The MP finder is better in quality, at same level of the M3 finder. The M6 finder, in respect of the M3 finder, loosed an optical element, while another one of the optical elements was made in acrylic glass, who tend to make opaque with time (the same situation concern the M4-2, the M4-P and the first series of the M7). The MP finder have the same number of the optical elements of the M3 finder and all are made in pure glass. From the Leica MP, also the M7 have the same improvement. See the Leica MP review written by Erwin Puts for more technical info.
Ciao.
Vincenzo
Ciao.
Vincenzo
dacaccia
M246&X100V&GFX 50R
I always would consider buying a M6 and build in the new M7/MP viewfinder which is much clearer esp. in dim light.
Cheers,
dacaccia
Cheers,
dacaccia
maddoc
... likes film again.
Roughly 19 differences between the M6TTL / MP are listed, most significantly are the improved VF (all windows scratchfree coated, additional condenser lens, black-paint on the outer faces of the prism) and changed form of the steel-gears to achieve a smoother film-advance. The shutter mechanism has a modified brake and spring. Other than this, the electronic circuit is digital now and can be adjusted electronically. I found this some time ago at LUF (or LUG ?).kshapero said:
cheers,
maddoc