Bad shutter or bad processing?

rbiemer

rbiemer

Unabashed Amateur
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Just got a lovely big envelope with my latest batch of film and CDs.
I had 5 rolls of 120 Tri-x dev'd and scanned by my usual processor.
These are the first 120 they've done for me but I am happy with the 35mm film and scans.
So, I was not happy to see what the 60 frames all contain.
The attachment has been resized but other wise unaltered.
And the bands are on the neg not just the scan.:bang:
Camera is a leaf shutter TLR that has, until now, given very consistent results.
Time for a cla, I guess
Rob?
 

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Thanks guys,
I was rooting for camera problem, actually; the camera will be easier to deal with than a processing issue.
I've looked at the negs and don't see any evidence of these bands outside the image area but the bands are consistently the same width and position in each neg.
I have also just looked at the 35mm film that I just got back, color and BW and so far, the negs look as they usually have: good with a bit of dust here and there.
I'll give 'em a call and see what they tell me.
Nuts.
Rob
 
A leaf shutter isn't really going to make the same sort of marks as an fp shutter, simply because it is a completely different mechanism.

It is possible, but perhaps unlikely (as it is 120), that the film was developed with a processor having some sort of transport which may have left some marks, but most labs over here do small volumes of 120 with dip-and-dunk processors. The direction of the marks would seem to be along the length of the film (if this is a normal sort of tlr at least). That leaves a bit of a mystery !

Perhaps you could enquire what sort of processor they use, and also check the free moving of the starting-spool end of the transport in the camera ??

I'm curious to know what made the marks . . .
 
rbiemer said:
...Camera is a leaf shutter TLR that has, until now, given very consistent results...
When you say 'very consistent results' have been had with the TLR camera, what film and lab did you recently get good results with? You also indicated that this is the first time you've tried that lab's 120 processing. If you've had good results with another film or lab, try a roll with them and compare results. Also try E6 film, too, just to rule out the B/W type of film and processing.

The marks seem to be along the length of the film itself; I can't recall there being significant transport rollers in the TLR's that I've used, although you may want to check out the film transport path in the camera just to see if anything seems to be pressing on the film itself, other than the pressure plate. As you may know, any excess pressure or physical stress on unprocessed film can cause fogging.

What about the film itself? Is this from a new batch just purchased? I've heard of X-rays causing bands like this.

I just reread that you indicated the bands are not in the area between images. Could this be fogging from something in the light path not adequately blackened, like some camera part that's too reflective (need repainting perhaps?) Open up the back and examine the innards with a flashlight.

~Joe
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Some Ideas

Some Ideas

rbiemer said:
...Camera is a leaf shutter TLR that has, until now, given very consistent results...
When you say 'very consistent results' have been had with the TLR camera, what film and lab did you recently get good results with? You also indicated that this is the first time you've tried that lab's 120 processing. If you've had good results with another film or lab, try a roll with them and compare results. Also try E6 film, too, just to rule out the B/W type of film and processing.

The marks seem to be along the length of the film itself; I can't recall there being significant transport rollers in the TLR's that I've used, although you may want to check out the film transport path in the camera just to see if anything seems to be pressing on the film itself, other than the pressure plate. As you may know, any excess pressure or physical stress on unprocessed film can cause fogging.

What about the film itself? Is this from a new batch just purchased? I've heard of X-rays causing bands like this.

I just reread that you indicated the bands are not in the area between images. Could this be fogging from something in the light path not adequately blackened, like some camera part that's too reflective (need repainting perhaps?) Open up the back and examine the innards with a flashlight.

~Joe
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Joe,
Good points. Haven't used the camera in a while before these rolls and the lab I used last is no longer in business. Film is current dated TriX (June 08, I think). And I bought 10 rolls of it last fall as part of a large film order(50 rolls of my usual 35mm film). All the rest of the film has been fine and the 35mm I had processed at the same time is OK as well.
The marks are along the length of the film so I'll give the rollers/pressure plate a good gentle cleaning.
And check for unwanted reflections/bright spots.
Martin,
I honestly don't know if these folks are using dip & dunk or machine processing...
They have been very good with my 35mm film so I didn't hesitate to send the 120 there.
Rob
 
Rob: Do you have another 120 camera you can use to do a test? Or maybe borrow one? That won't prove anything, since if it is processing (which I tend to think is likely), a processing problem may be corrected by now.
 
Earl,
More than one camera for a given film size? That's nuts!
O, wait. Of course I do.:D
But no other 120 camera with me now.
Decided not to call but to email--so now I am going to concentrate on editing the 35mm.
I was thinking about a way to save the few negs I would like to print and maybe have an idea:
Make a layer in GIMP that is based on just the bands and try to even out the light dark areas...selective ND as it were?
I'm not so good at dodging/burning with a mouse and this might be something I could make once, save, and then apply to(layer on?) any of these negs I want to use?
Rob
 
If the film is processed via a mechanical thingy, I had it happen that the mechanics would stop and continue during the development. These seem to be marks of uneven development for the 120 film. But I am not completely sure since in my case there would be jumps in density in the middle of # 34 all the time when it happened ...
 
i have a flatbed scanner that will do that if i try to scan 4x5 ( cheap epson 1660 ) the scanner is not meant to scan film of this size , but it will give you a half ass scan with those same streaks .
 
40oz said:
looks to me like a bad scan. I'd check the negatives first, but you might just ask for a rescan.
Click to expand...
I hoped it was just the scan but the banding is on the negs as well.
I have just finished loading the other CDs into my computer(the 35mm film I sent with the 120) and those are fine. Couple of water spots and some dust but not anything I can't live with.
Some good images too so I'm not quite so upset as I was. Out of the 750ish photos, I figure I'll have the next few days of free time taken care of.
Rob
 
Do you have any scratches on your film?
Since you say that you can not see any bands in the film, I'll guess it is a scanner problem

If you have a flatbed scan the negative page and enlarge to see if you can still see those
 
But he can see the bands on the film. That's why I think it's a processing problem.
rbiemer said:
I hoped it was just the scan but the banding is on the negs as well.
Rob
Click to expand...
 
Looking at the picture, I would have guessed a focal-plane shutter-drag issue . BUT it cannot be, because this camera uses a leaflet shutter.

It could also be a light leak??? Examine the in between area of the negaytives.

or- If has to be the processing,.
 
The bands are on the negatives but not in between frames...Haven't heard back from the lab yet (today is a holiday here in the US).
I took a long time to find a decent and not too pricey mail order lab, I really can't do my own, and with the good results I've had with my 35mm film from these folks, I had no trepidation about sending the 120 to 'em.
Now I've got 10 or 12 frames from the five rolls that are going to require lots of time and effort to try to salvage.
I like using a TLR, maybe I should save for the Contaflex 35mm TLR:rolleyes:
Or keep these folks for 35mm and start looking again for a lab for 120.
I really would prefer that this is a camera problem; it'll be easier to fix/replace the TLR than to find a new lab.
Depending on how my email is answered, I am going to finish the roll that's in the camera now, give the innards a very close look and thorough cleaning, and try 'em one more time.
Rob
 
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