Tim San Francisco
Island Boy
Advice Requested; opinions welcome.
I'm overseas and fell upon an estate sale of sorts, where I found this Russian panoramic rangefinder. It feels like a tank, has a detachable viewfinder, and lens marking "OF - 28P 2.8/28 N7624" The body has a label "ropn30ht" (although I'm not sure if the first character is an "r")
I'd appreciate if anyone can advise on the market value of this camera, which seems to be in working order. There is a hand knob for film advance, and the lens rotates when the shutter is released. No internal meter, and only 3 shutter speed markings but it seems to accept intermediate settings: 30, 60, 125.
Any opinions or advice would be appreciated.
Tim (temporarily overseas)
:eek:
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Tim San Francisco
Island Boy
P.S. Any info on this thing would be welcome, especially whether it takes decent photos!
monocyte
Member
That's a Horizont panoramic camera, supposedly quite nice. There's a Flickr group supporting them here: http://flickr.com/groups/ft-2_and_horizont/. I'm sure some owners here will chime in too.
They are still sold, the new model is the same mechanically, but has a new plastic "skin".
The one in your photo is worth about $200.
The new one is called a Horizon 202 or it has the foolish "lomography" sticker.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000CC5F8I
The one in your photo is worth about $200.
The new one is called a Horizon 202 or it has the foolish "lomography" sticker.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000CC5F8I
Philipp
Established
Hi Tim,
looks like you found an old Horizon camera! I have the successor, the Horizon 202. I think both our cameras share the same lens, only the newer model has a plastic housing and has more time-settings. Please correct me if I am wrong, anyone! I am very happy with my Horizon. It is capable of producing very sharp images. Loading the camera is, say, unusual, but you can find instructions on the web. Also use the bubble-level! Just search the internet for "Horizon" and "KMZ". Here are some shots taken with the Horizon 202.
- Philipp
looks like you found an old Horizon camera! I have the successor, the Horizon 202. I think both our cameras share the same lens, only the newer model has a plastic housing and has more time-settings. Please correct me if I am wrong, anyone! I am very happy with my Horizon. It is capable of producing very sharp images. Loading the camera is, say, unusual, but you can find instructions on the web. Also use the bubble-level! Just search the internet for "Horizon" and "KMZ". Here are some shots taken with the Horizon 202.
- Philipp
Attachments
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Tim San Francisco
Island Boy
Thanks a bunch!
Thanks a bunch!
Hey, thanks for the reply posts.
I'm in Asia, and showed the photo to a local repair tech who told me the camera is worth about $400 - I nearly gagged!
It does feel solid, albeit a bit primitive looking. But it also has a few marks and scratches. I can't imagine $400 for this, but maybe I can strike a bargain with the seller.
Your prompt feedback, much appreciated.
Tim
Thanks a bunch!
Hey, thanks for the reply posts.
I'm in Asia, and showed the photo to a local repair tech who told me the camera is worth about $400 - I nearly gagged!
It does feel solid, albeit a bit primitive looking. But it also has a few marks and scratches. I can't imagine $400 for this, but maybe I can strike a bargain with the seller.
Your prompt feedback, much appreciated.
Tim
crawdiddy
qu'est-ce que c'est?
The characters "ropn30ht" are Cyrillic for Horizont. (It makes sense after about 5 vodkas.)
It sounds like you haven't purchased the camera yet. You might want to look on the evil bay for panoramic cameras, to see if it's a good deal.
I have a Widelux, which seem to sell for a lot more $, although I'm not sure it's justified. I sort of like the look of the Soviet FT-2 cameras. They're extremely primitive looking.
Btw, nice photos, Philipp.
It sounds like you haven't purchased the camera yet. You might want to look on the evil bay for panoramic cameras, to see if it's a good deal.
I have a Widelux, which seem to sell for a lot more $, although I'm not sure it's justified. I sort of like the look of the Soviet FT-2 cameras. They're extremely primitive looking.
Btw, nice photos, Philipp.
iamzip
Ambitious, but rubbish
If you look on the 'bay, I think you'll find they go for somewhat less than that. Also, I've read that the older "square" models are less reliable; if you're looking for a user it's better to go for the newer "plastic" ones. Note that I have no experience to back that up, it's just what I read before purchasing my Horizon 202 (which is on its way)!
MickH
Well-known
I've been looking for a pano camera for a while now and have been sorely tempted by the Widelux. It's interesting to hear from a genuine user - and not someone with a particular axe to grind - that the Horizon/Widelux trade-off isn't so big. Used Wideluxes sell for between two and four times the price of a new H 202 or 203.
My mind is almost made up.
Cheers,
Mick
crawdiddy
qu'est-ce que c'est?
The Achilles heel of the Widelux is the swing mechanism. Users more familiar than me say they need a CLA once per year. That's pretty frequent. I've had mine for a year and a half, and the slow speed (1/15 sec) slows down toward the end of its travel. I can use it at 1/15th, but the results aren't prefect. The faster speeds (I think the only others are 1/125th and 1/250th) seem to be fine.
It's a fun camera though. It feels gigantic in your hands. Like a Pentax 645, but lighter.
I haven't used it as much as I would like to. One thing you don't want to do is load it up and start shooting Tri-X (400), and then looking for shots outside. The fastest speed is 1/250th, and smallest aperture is f/11, so ASA 400 is too much for daylight.
ATTN MODS: Shouldn't this thread be in the Pano forum?
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blacknoise
Established
I have one of these, its a pretty nice camera, I like the build compared to the newer plastic ones, and the extra speeds aren't all that useful I don't think. One problem you might get are lightleaks along the frame edges, you can fix this pretty easily using this guide:
http://web.ncf.ca/ac210/photography/horizont.html
Good luck!
Rob
http://web.ncf.ca/ac210/photography/horizont.html
Good luck!
Rob
fanshaw
Well-known
I sold one like this on Ebay a year or so ago,although possibly not so good cosmetically it fetched £240.
brachal
Refrigerated User
My wife used to use one, and loved the image quality. It broke down eventually, but it really did produce nice pictures while it lasted. It got her hooked on panoramics; now she shoots an X-pan2.
blacknoise
Established
I didn't know they went for that much, I got mine about a month back from a camera shop. Was going for £125, but I noticed the massive (but fixable) leaks and managed to get them down to £75
MickH
Well-known
Did you buy it then Tim?
jke
Well-known
I had one nearly exactly like that one that I bought in Prague. I did not pay $200 for mine, but then I bought it when the dollar was trading at 45 Czech Koruny or something. Anyway, if you have this camera, then watch out for the all glass viewfinder. It is heavier than the clasp that holds it in is strong, which is why you will see a number of them for sale without the finder. And they develop light leaks at either end of the turret's rotation, which will appear in ghosty banding on the right and left of the image. Mine did that occasionally. You can either keep the turret covered when you are not shooting it, or rework some of the light seal in the camera, which is more complicated. If you get a good one, they are great. Really fun cameras. Mine worked fine, but eventually traded it for something else. Can't remember what. I actually prefer this model to the plastic ones, but only because the metal increases the clanky clunky mechanical feel.
R
ruben
Guest
Hi Tim,
Being the case that new from the factory Horizon cameras are available and reliable, I wouldn't try my luck with an older model, neither any ebay Widelux, that like the older Horizont will both have to go for a CLA.
But, in my opinion, the problem is in another field: How may panoramic pictures do you intend to make ? Because after a while, looking at too much panoramic pictures becomes flatly boring.
Therefore that the panoramic camera, somewhat big but not as big as a medium format, can only be an additional camera you travel with, when space is available. It never will be your single camera.
And taking this into account, the Russian Horizon will be more a satisfying, balanced, moderated and reasonable expense. Add to it a very light plastic left bracket, and both gripping and sharpness will become superb.
Cheers,
Ruben
Being the case that new from the factory Horizon cameras are available and reliable, I wouldn't try my luck with an older model, neither any ebay Widelux, that like the older Horizont will both have to go for a CLA.
But, in my opinion, the problem is in another field: How may panoramic pictures do you intend to make ? Because after a while, looking at too much panoramic pictures becomes flatly boring.
Therefore that the panoramic camera, somewhat big but not as big as a medium format, can only be an additional camera you travel with, when space is available. It never will be your single camera.
And taking this into account, the Russian Horizon will be more a satisfying, balanced, moderated and reasonable expense. Add to it a very light plastic left bracket, and both gripping and sharpness will become superb.
Cheers,
Ruben
Tim San Francisco
Island Boy
Brought it back from Asia
Brought it back from Asia
Hey Everyone:
Just returned from Asia, and am sleeping off the vicious jet-lag. I wanted to thank everyone for the helpful information and opinions on the HorizonT.
Yes, I did spring for this camera (paid US $150) without an opportunity to test it or have it checked by a technician. The body, lens, and viewfinder look clean except for a few bright marks and rubs. I took a chance on this, but the thing looked like such a curious and intriguing device that I couldn't resist.
I'm just now putting some film through it, and realized that without a focusing device, the lens must be defaulted for infinity. If so, am I correct in assuming that I need to substantially stop down the aperture for greater DOF to keep foreground subjects (people) in decent focus? Does this, in turn, mean that with the top shutter speed of 1/125, I need to use higher speed films to obtain greater DOF?
Thanks again, Tim
Brought it back from Asia
Hey Everyone:
Just returned from Asia, and am sleeping off the vicious jet-lag. I wanted to thank everyone for the helpful information and opinions on the HorizonT.
Yes, I did spring for this camera (paid US $150) without an opportunity to test it or have it checked by a technician. The body, lens, and viewfinder look clean except for a few bright marks and rubs. I took a chance on this, but the thing looked like such a curious and intriguing device that I couldn't resist.
I'm just now putting some film through it, and realized that without a focusing device, the lens must be defaulted for infinity. If so, am I correct in assuming that I need to substantially stop down the aperture for greater DOF to keep foreground subjects (people) in decent focus? Does this, in turn, mean that with the top shutter speed of 1/125, I need to use higher speed films to obtain greater DOF?
Thanks again, Tim
rxmd
May contain traces of nut
If I remember correctly, the lens is focused at infinity, so you have to stop down. You can check with an online DOF calculator. Actual DOF depends on how you enlarge pictures, but with panoramics you can usually take the "shorter end" as an enlarging guideline, so what is a 10x15 from a normal negative would be a 10x24 from the Horizont. Because you are taking pictures on 35mm film, which determines the "shorter end", you can take the DOF values for 35mm film as a guideline. For the 28/2.8 lens of the Horizont, you get a table that should look roughly like the following for the "near end" of the in-focus area:
f/16: 1.5m
f/11: 2.3m
f/8: 3.2m
f/5.6: 4.5m
f/4: 6m
f/2.8: 9m
Give or take a few centimeters.
If you want to maximise DOF, the problem is obviously not the highest shutter speed, but the lowest; after all you want to close the aperture. Lowest speed is 1/30 on the Horizont. This is not too limiting IMHO. I don't know what your usual film speeds are, but with 200 or 400 film you should be pretty much on the safe side even if it gets a little darker. The Horizont is not more limiting in this case than a FED-2 or so would be. Obviously it is not great if you want to do closeups, but then panoramics are normally used in landscape photography. You might ask an optician to make you a closeup lens if you need that, like this guy did.
Philipp
f/16: 1.5m
f/11: 2.3m
f/8: 3.2m
f/5.6: 4.5m
f/4: 6m
f/2.8: 9m
Give or take a few centimeters.
If you want to maximise DOF, the problem is obviously not the highest shutter speed, but the lowest; after all you want to close the aperture. Lowest speed is 1/30 on the Horizont. This is not too limiting IMHO. I don't know what your usual film speeds are, but with 200 or 400 film you should be pretty much on the safe side even if it gets a little darker. The Horizont is not more limiting in this case than a FED-2 or so would be. Obviously it is not great if you want to do closeups, but then panoramics are normally used in landscape photography. You might ask an optician to make you a closeup lens if you need that, like this guy did.
Philipp
laptoprob
back to basics
I too have one. Like it a lot. It is now being fixed for the light leaks that occur sometimes at 10° before start and finish of the rotation.
I also blackened the inside part of the drum. Shooting into the sun creates an opportunity of light bouncing between film and drum, thus flaring the available stretch of film.
I also blackened the inside part of the drum. Shooting into the sun creates an opportunity of light bouncing between film and drum, thus flaring the available stretch of film.