parsec1
parsec1
Or a good story........
chris00nj
Young Luddite
I think it's a revolutionary improvement, because it allows the camera to play to the strengths of the rangefinder system. Rangefinders have concrete advantages of SLRs at wider apertures in terms of lens size and distortion. The crop sensor of M8 negated a significant rangefinder assest.
Richard Marks
Rexel
Yes I've shot in manual for the last 6 years and it has given me much better results, enabling me to read light, and therefore guess expsoures quite accurately....and should I be wrong I have the LCD to check and I can tell how far out I am and adjust the shutter/aperture accordingly. Very simple method.
This gets funnier! Now you are saying that you shoot manual and then use the LCD to check how far out your exposure is and then adjust the exposure!! This is known as Chimping. It does not suggest that your metering method is all that good. Also that means you are taking another shot. That way you might loose that scoop picture. This does not sound very professional and even a tad 'lazy'. Also you are going to struggle if you ever need to use a film camera again!
By the same argument what is wrong with using matrix metering and on the rare occasions it does not deliver also altering the exposure compensation + or - until it looks as you want it. Or better still check the histogram!
Maybe its about time you explained what professional picture taking you are involved in. That might help us all to understand.
Incidentally those pros who have replied do not seem too bothered about aperture piority exposure.
Richard
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JohnTF
Mentor
Roger,
Better hurry them up on that technology, I saw Garfunkel, and there has been a lessening of necessary data to record on the hair front.
;-)
John
leicashot
Well-known
Yes, this just gets funnier and you really should stop, or go to a photography class and ask if auto is the way to learn and go about professional photography. How different is it when you take a shot, see the camera on auto has over/under exposed, then compensate? This is no different, except, in consistent lighting, the camera could get it wrong again and you'll compensate, and so on and so on.
In manual, one change is enough and as light changes from the base exposure, the photographer reads how much light has changed and changes accordingly without needing to check the camera. The 'chimping' as you call it only needs to be done once (and is really no different to ambient light reading), and that's the difference between auto and manual. Exposure compensation is nothing short of another type of compensation....lack of ability to read and adjust for lighting and changes in lighting - and not through lack of skill, but laziness to take risks and better learn the finer aspects of professional (quality) photography.
This conversation has to end as it's no longer contributing positively to this forum. I have given you my best explanation which could help you, instead you refuse to believe that humans can think better than machines...so when judgement day comes, I guess terminators will reign supreme.
I'm out, cheers.
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Richard Marks
Rexel
Ok so now we have it. You are not actually a professional at all are you?
You have blathered on about how choosy picture editors can be and how they might spot if you have used auto exposure and all the pressures of delivering every time. Meanwhile you are chimping away regardless. (the light can also change whilsy you are chimping and you loose just the same!!). You also do not reply to posts from professionals who say how good matrix metering can be.
You fail to realise that I do use manual when needed (my Hasselblad, 5x4 Contax IIa and Holga and I have an M6 rather than M7) none of which have an LCD screen to bail me out (now thats propper photography). But if I shoot D700 I will take advantage of its superb metering and hell if its not cooking Ill switch to spot metering or even a little fill flash if things are tricky. Being flexible gets the shot not just one camera and one way of doing things.
If you know what you are doing you can use technology to your advantage and have the best of both worlds.
Like I said you had better hope next time you get on a plane that they are using their technology because landing without it can certainly be interesting and you cant chimp that one!
Do yourself a favour and try a modern matrix meter. They have changed one heck of a lot in 6 years. They have tens of thousands of pre calculated patterns to fall back on and might actually have more correct exposures in their memory than you do. Who knows you might not need that chimping any more!
In sympathy
Richard
Noel Holland
Newbie
Shame on you
Shame on you
>Ok so now we have it.
Yes we do, and we really wish we didn't.
Your posts make it very clear that this forum has little to no effective moderation. Your posts have degenerated to a point where they have nothing to do with the topic and are a blatant flame. In most forums you should have had a talking to by a moderator by now. But you have just steamrollered on and completely ignored the fact that your protagonist is trying to call this argument to a halt in their last post.
These forums should be about information and trading idea.
Your postings seem to be about the size of your ePenis.
Might I suggest you get a grip and go take some photos?
So there ends my first post here, and given the member behaviour and lack of action by moderators, likely my only post here.:bang:
Shame on you
>Ok so now we have it.
Yes we do, and we really wish we didn't.
Your posts make it very clear that this forum has little to no effective moderation. Your posts have degenerated to a point where they have nothing to do with the topic and are a blatant flame. In most forums you should have had a talking to by a moderator by now. But you have just steamrollered on and completely ignored the fact that your protagonist is trying to call this argument to a halt in their last post.
These forums should be about information and trading idea.
Your postings seem to be about the size of your ePenis.
Might I suggest you get a grip and go take some photos?
So there ends my first post here, and given the member behaviour and lack of action by moderators, likely my only post here.:bang:
leicashot
Well-known
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leicashot
Well-known
Noel I apologise if I've made your experience here unpleasant. I do hope you've taken something positive from my point of view, regardless of the blunt way I put things. I am very passionate about photography and feel that people's judgements on photographic technique is becomeing clouded by marketing gimmicks and automation. I may be somewhat of a traditionalist, but I'm only 30, and have worked with some of the best photographers in the world. I speak from experience and more so, many many mistakes.
While I see automation great for amatuers, I think it's useless for serious amatuers who demand professional, consitent results, and hoped to convince people to try to use manual in a step to better learn light reading, an essential part of any good photographer's arsenal.
All the best and I apologize to all for getting side-tracked on this thread. I did mean well....well before it got ugly.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
How dare you jump in here with your first post purely to admonish an established RFF member you know absolutely nothing about ... and to crticise a very well moderated forum IMO.
Irrespective of the argument that is going on between Leicashot and Richard nobody has been abused and no over zealous moderation has been needed thus far!
Indeed ... please feel free not to return!
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leicashot
Well-known
How dare you jump in here with your first post purely to admonish an established RFF member you know absolutely nothing about ... and to crticise a very well moderated forum IMO.
Irrespective of the argument that is going on between Leicashot and Richard nobody has been abused and no over zealous moderation has been needed thus far!
Indeed ... please feel free not to return!
Keith, I think he has a point though. It was getting a bit ridiculous and distasteful on both parts. Honestly I think it was sad that his first post had to be of dissapointment.
I think he had every right to criticize as he saw fit. He's a human being just like the rest of us...I think
Noel Holland
Newbie
>How dare you jump in here with your first post purely to admonish an established RFF member you know absolutely nothing about ... and to crticise a very well moderated forum IMO.
Just remember this - if you stand in the mire too long you may stop noticing the stench.
Just remember this - if you stand in the mire too long you may stop noticing the stench.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
Keith, I think he has a point though. It was getting a bit ridiculous and distasteful on both parts. Honestly I think it was sad that his first post had to be of dissapointment.
I think he had every right to criticize as he saw fit. He's a human being just like the rest of us...I think
Fair point Leicashot but there are a lot of forums out there that are populated by some extremely unpleasant individuals where sarcasm and abuse seem to be the norm and in my time here this generally has not been one of them. I also believe the moderation here is excellent even though at times I dissagree with some of the decisions made by the said mods!
To criticise this forum and it's level of moderation in a first post goes way beyond my level of tolerance sorry.
But I'm sure Richard can stick up for himself!
I'd be curious to know what Noel's' response was but unfortunately he went straight onto my ignore list ... as a matter of interest he is my very first RFFer ever to do so! Quite an achievment with one post ... it must have really riled me!
edit ... anyway let's stop all this rubbish about exposure because it seems we are never going to agree so obviously we must agree to dissagree!
Back to the M9 ... normal service resumed!
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Richard Marks
Rexel
Dear leicashotAll the best and I apologize to all for getting side-tracked on this thread. I did mean well....well before it got ugly.
I accept your apology. I too am very sorry if i have caused you distress.
I do appreciate that you are passionate about your photographic beliefs and any one who is passionate is very welcome here in my opinion. However if I may be constructive please do not let your passion cloud your better judgement and please try and accept there are as many ways of making pictures as there are photographers. I realise that you were hoping to save me from a life of poor pictures, but do not worry about me, have a look at my website. I usually get by dont you think?!
Have a nice day
Richard
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
Indeed ... please feel free not to return!
Some people are Master Sock-Puppeteers. I'm sure he'll be back, just under an older account
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
There's a lot of love here.
Spoks
Well-known
To call a camera a 'legend' has something to do with feelings. And that's fair enough. We all have strong 'feelings' for certain brands - and so on. But the camera business has now been through a major change; the introduction of digital. This change is such that we are bound to see old brands, that we have these feelings for, are going under. One excellent brand no longer offered is Contax. Which is a tragedy.
I suspect that more brands will follow.
What Leica has done is to try to fit the same Kodak sensor, but in FF mode into the camera. Fine little else is changed. Besides the shape and form of some microlenses and the software that shall compensate for the sharp light angles that RF cameras produce. Sure, M9 is better than M8. To a hefty price.
What will come next? Will Kodak, on the brink of going bankrupt, be able to develop a new sensor? Competing against Japanese producers who can send much of their development bill to the Japanese government. This I want to see....
I suspect that more brands will follow.
What Leica has done is to try to fit the same Kodak sensor, but in FF mode into the camera. Fine little else is changed. Besides the shape and form of some microlenses and the software that shall compensate for the sharp light angles that RF cameras produce. Sure, M9 is better than M8. To a hefty price.
What will come next? Will Kodak, on the brink of going bankrupt, be able to develop a new sensor? Competing against Japanese producers who can send much of their development bill to the Japanese government. This I want to see....
Sparrow
Mentor
There certainly is … if only we could find a way to measure just how much
Richard Marks
Rexel
I think we have all moved on. I really do not care what pros get uo to. And I certainly would never quote thier activities in support of an argument. Pros have to take pictures which sell. I dont have to take pictures. As long as we are all happy that is cool by me.
I have run 7 marathons and can honestly sy this thread beets all of them!
Bestv wishes
Richard
leicashot
Well-known
No worries at all. I understand that there are different ways and should have been more respectful....if we were in person I know things would have been so different. Your pictures are great, no issues at all....you definately get by