Tom A
RFF Sponsor
I keep my developers/hypo in 5 liter "jugs" in the darkroom - as well as about 5-6 liter of water. This means that the developer/intermediate wash/hypo is at room temperature (in the winter usually around 20C and in the summer rarely above 25C (this is "temperate" Vancouver after all). Once film is fixed I do a quick rinse with again room temperature water. If the water coming out of the tap is more than 3-5 degrees off from room temperature - I fill the tank from a jug - and the stick the hose in it. My water flow is about 3-3.5 l/min and the "tempered" water from the jug provides a bit of a shock absorber for the flow from the tap.
If the difference is more than 5 degrees - I would store more water at room temperature and introduce the hotter or colder water incrementally.
Modern films are very resistant to reticulation - but if you have enough of a shock - it can happen. Biggest problem with too hot a wash is simply the softening of the emulsion - and if it is way too hot - it can "melt" the emulsion and cause it to slide off the film base!!
As stated, the wash does not cause grain as such - but the fact that the gelatin substrate is in water causes it to swell and this can cause "clumping" of the grain. Some developers use Sodium Sulphate (Td 201) to prevent this from happening. Again, unless you use old style "thick" emulsions like Tri X/+X/XX/HP5 - you wont notice it.
Kodak does have some "Tropical" developers - check in your "Dark Room Cookbook's" for suitable recipes. I have never lived in a place hot enough and/or long enough to try it out though.
If the difference is more than 5 degrees - I would store more water at room temperature and introduce the hotter or colder water incrementally.
Modern films are very resistant to reticulation - but if you have enough of a shock - it can happen. Biggest problem with too hot a wash is simply the softening of the emulsion - and if it is way too hot - it can "melt" the emulsion and cause it to slide off the film base!!
As stated, the wash does not cause grain as such - but the fact that the gelatin substrate is in water causes it to swell and this can cause "clumping" of the grain. Some developers use Sodium Sulphate (Td 201) to prevent this from happening. Again, unless you use old style "thick" emulsions like Tri X/+X/XX/HP5 - you wont notice it.
Kodak does have some "Tropical" developers - check in your "Dark Room Cookbook's" for suitable recipes. I have never lived in a place hot enough and/or long enough to try it out though.
photokalia
Established
development times for the tropics
development times for the tropics
I've been getting good results with these developer/film combos and timings (using tropical water temperatures, no ice and most importantly, no reticulation!):
TMax 400 @ ISO 1600 in TMax Developer (1:9)
13min at 28 degrees celcius, agitation for first minute, and then for 10 seconds at the 6th and 9th minute.
TMax 400 @ ISO 400 in HC-110 (1:100)
8:37min at 28 degrees celcius, agitation for 1st minute, and then for 10sec at the 5th minute.
Tri-X @ ISO 400 in HC-110 (1:100)
14:07min at 28 degrees celcius, agitation for first minute, and then for 10 seconds at the 6th and 9th minute
HP5 @ ISO 1600 in DDX (1:9)
11:34min at 28 degrees celcius, agitation for first minute and then for 10 seconds at the 5th minute.
I'm very conservative with agitation after the 1st minute as I find the negs get too contrasty and grainy if I agitate too much.
I basically bought the Massive Dev Chart iPhone app and used the temp/time converter to suit tropical temperatures, and also halved the dilutions in order to keep the development times between 8 to 15 minutes. I find that it I get nicer results when I go with a more diluted developer and longer development times, rather than shorter development times using a higher concentration of developer. Would suggest you do some testing of your own using my timings as a base before committing anything important to them. Hope this helps
development times for the tropics
I've been getting good results with these developer/film combos and timings (using tropical water temperatures, no ice and most importantly, no reticulation!):
TMax 400 @ ISO 1600 in TMax Developer (1:9)
13min at 28 degrees celcius, agitation for first minute, and then for 10 seconds at the 6th and 9th minute.
TMax 400 @ ISO 400 in HC-110 (1:100)
8:37min at 28 degrees celcius, agitation for 1st minute, and then for 10sec at the 5th minute.
Tri-X @ ISO 400 in HC-110 (1:100)
14:07min at 28 degrees celcius, agitation for first minute, and then for 10 seconds at the 6th and 9th minute
HP5 @ ISO 1600 in DDX (1:9)
11:34min at 28 degrees celcius, agitation for first minute and then for 10 seconds at the 5th minute.
I'm very conservative with agitation after the 1st minute as I find the negs get too contrasty and grainy if I agitate too much.
I basically bought the Massive Dev Chart iPhone app and used the temp/time converter to suit tropical temperatures, and also halved the dilutions in order to keep the development times between 8 to 15 minutes. I find that it I get nicer results when I go with a more diluted developer and longer development times, rather than shorter development times using a higher concentration of developer. Would suggest you do some testing of your own using my timings as a base before committing anything important to them. Hope this helps
mgd711
Medium Format Baby!!
My tap water is a fairly constant 28 degree’s and I have no problems using it as a stop or as a wash. I develop everything at 20 degree’s.
Roger Hicks
Mentor
Use the Ilford wash sequence (5-10-20 inversions) and you can wash 2x 35mm films in a 425 ml tank in a litre and a half of water. Double any one of the steps for paranoia, and it's still under 2 litres: not hard to get to the right temperature.
Living in a hard water area, I wash with (appropriately tempered) tap water to begin with, using the Ilford sequence, followed by 20 inversions in distilled water, followed by a final rinse in half-strength Agepon (Agfa wetting agent - any will do) in distilled water. Many people do not realize that hard water washes better than distilled. Odd but true.
Cheers,
R.
Living in a hard water area, I wash with (appropriately tempered) tap water to begin with, using the Ilford sequence, followed by 20 inversions in distilled water, followed by a final rinse in half-strength Agepon (Agfa wetting agent - any will do) in distilled water. Many people do not realize that hard water washes better than distilled. Odd but true.
Cheers,
R.
Ade-oh
Well-known
I wash with water straight out of the tap - in summer at least - and I haven't managed to get a film to reticulate in years. It isn't really an issue any more.
Incidentally, I'm with Roger on using the Ilford method. I also find it's better for controlling the final stages of the wash in my eternal quest to banish drying marks!
Incidentally, I'm with Roger on using the Ilford method. I also find it's better for controlling the final stages of the wash in my eternal quest to banish drying marks!
JohnTF
Mentor
Ahh, Grasshopper, I have seen it with my very own eyes, and never been able to duplicate it.
Royal X Pan, developed in Dk60a, 4x5. I was distracted and washed the film in hot tap water, which here would be well over 100F, probably closer to 125, and when I picked up the sheet film, the emulsion rubbed off in the corner, and the film was beautifully reticulated.
However, we are talking thick emulsion, and extreme conditions, the some of the cracks followed the edge of some of the subjects in the image.
I tried later to even put hot sheet film in the freezer, and I did get some patterns of frost in the emulsion.
Modern emulsions and chemistry are obviously the blame for lack of reticulation in most cases today.
As the reticulation lines followed the outlines of some of the images, I suspect a connection between the process and the density, and I would not be surprised if there was some effect on grain.
Perhaps some jugs of distilled water can be left someplace to cool? Tap water here in Ohio come out of the faucet in summer right at 68 if you let it run. When I built my last darkroom I put in temperature control -- so I was able to check these things much more easily.
I could see some problems with some films if you wipe them out of water that hot? I like a good hardener with film fix, think you have to add it with the liquid rapid fixes these days.
I would like to get the wash temperature down to no more than 75, and will let you know when the Yeti shows up.
Regards, John
Frontman
Well-known
Ditto. My wash water is generally quite a bit colder than my solutions, but I have noticed no difference whatsoever between 20 degree washes and cold water washes. I generally use Acros, Neopan, or Trix using ID-11, Microdol, or D76.
Tijmendal
Young photog
Bumping this.
Just bought a Paterson washing hose because I'm too lazy to do the Ilford method. I just found out it doesn't fit on the faucet I normally use. The only faucet it does fit is in the garage, which only has cold water I'm guessing 15-18 degrees C, but I'll check tomorrow with a thermometer).
Is reticulation a problem with temperatures like these? I never bring my fixer to the same temperature as my developer, so I'm guessing it's in the 18-19 degree range and have never experienced any problems.
Thanks.
Just bought a Paterson washing hose because I'm too lazy to do the Ilford method. I just found out it doesn't fit on the faucet I normally use. The only faucet it does fit is in the garage, which only has cold water I'm guessing 15-18 degrees C, but I'll check tomorrow with a thermometer).
Is reticulation a problem with temperatures like these? I never bring my fixer to the same temperature as my developer, so I'm guessing it's in the 18-19 degree range and have never experienced any problems.
Thanks.